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Why are Brits so left-wing?


4 eigner 2 | 831
22 Jan 2013  #1
I've found this online and since I happen to agree with some of it, I think, it's worth posting here

Why are Brits so left-wing?
Most British people I've spoken to are pretty left-wing politically. They all seem to be pro-gay rights, pro diversity, non-religious and extremely proud of their country being multicultural.

Michael Savage was banned from entering the UK about a year ago, anyone on the right in the UK is marginalized by society.

Right-wing Brits don't seem to exist, at least not in the American sense. By American standards Brits are as socialist as they come.

When I visited the UK I thought I'd like it, but I found the political correctness oppressive.

The UK technically has a "Conservative" party, but I think its an insult to conservative ideology for them to be called conservative. The Conservative party in the UK is slightly to the left of Obama.

And as for the British "Labour Party", I don't think any party like that would ever win an election in America.

zetigrek
22 Jan 2013  #2
Right-wing Brits don't seem to exist, at least not in the American sense.

Right wingers in the American sense doesn't exist anywhere outside the USA. Deal with it.
OP 4 eigner 2 | 831
22 Jan 2013  #3
Deal with it? Hmm, I don't have any problems with anyone's political views as long as you guys don't try to tell me that your way of thinking and your way of life is good for me here in the US (e.g. If you don't want guns in your society, that's fine with me but don't tell me, what's good for me/us over here, this is all I'm saying).
pawian 154 | 8,597
22 Jan 2013  #4
You forgot about guns

(e.g. If you don't want guns in your society, that's fine with me but don't tell me, what's good for me/us over here, this is all I'm saying).

That`s better.
OP 4 eigner 2 | 831
22 Jan 2013  #5
I'm glad you like it ;-)
pawian 154 | 8,597
22 Jan 2013  #6
You`re welcome. How about this theory?:

British society is still divided into social classes which tend to keep to themselves. Lower and middle class are probably left-oriented to balance the power of the upper classes which hold real control of the country. On the other hand, upper classes pretend to be left to pacify the classes below and keep them self-complacent.

Hence, one can get an impression that most Brits are left oriented.
TommyG 1 | 361
22 Jan 2013  #7
Why are Brits so left-wing?

We're not. That's the short answer.

Most British people I've spoken to are pretty left-wing politically. They all seem to be pro-gay rights, pro diversity, non-religious and extremely proud of their country being multicultural.

None of the above are anything to be ashamed of. Yes, we do have racists and homophobes but they're a minority.

Right-wing Brits don't seem to exist, at least not in the American sense. By American standards Brits are as socialist as they come.

Right wingers in the American sense doesn't exist anywhere outside the USA. Deal with it.

Quite right Zetigrek. Americans have a shock when the get first hand experience of the real world...

When I visited the UK I thought I'd like it, but I found the political correctness oppressive.

That's rich coming from a Yank. We say the same things about you guys... lol

The UK technically has a "Conservative" party, but I think its an insult to conservative ideology for them to be called conservative. The Conservative party in the UK is slightly to the left of Obama.

Both the Conservative (Tories) and Liberal Party (Whigs) were around long before the USA existed. Conservatism in the US can be considered radicalism to others...

And as for the British "Labour Party", I don't think any party like that would ever win an election in America.

I don't think either the Republicans or Democrats would win an election in the rest of the civilised world. Unless ofc, you have to rig the elections like you did in Florida a few years back George 'W'...

In short, I would rather have a right-wing conservative or a socialist Labour government in the UK than some idiot like 'Dubbya'.
Get a grip on gun control, gay rights, abortion, the death penalty and a million other issues and then come on a forum and slag off another country for being modern, civilised and liberal. Or 'Left-wing' as you call it...
Wroclaw Boy
22 Jan 2013  #8
The OP of this thread is not an American though, hes an Eastern European (Lithuanian) immigrant.
zetigrek
22 Jan 2013  #9
being modern, civilised and liberal.

Watch out, using such slogans is a way of manipulating the society. All the above are rather lame reasons for supporting any ideas...
OP 4 eigner 2 | 831
22 Jan 2013  #10
We're not. That's the short answer.

I can't confirm or deny any of it, never been to England yet but judging by the few of them I've met in the past, I have to agree with some of what he/she said about them (whoever wrote it).

None of the above are anything to be ashamed off. Yes, we do have racists and homophobes but they're a minority

no one says, you have to be ashamed of it. We're talking about differences, that's all.

Americans have a shock when the get first hand experience of the real world...

nah, no one is shocked, not at all. (Btw. it looks like everyone calls his country "the real world")

That's rich coming from a Yank.

not really. You guys are very self-righteous when it comes to your opinions and bitterly fight any opinions that don't match yours.

Both the Conservative (Tories) and Liberal Party (Whigs) were around long before the USA existed. Conservatism in the US can be considered radicalism to others...

it's about how we (many of us) see you politically, that's all.

Unless ofc, you have to rig the elections like you did in Florida a few years back George 'W'...

or better said, like Obama did most recently, huh? (not only in Florida)

...Get a grip... on gun control, gay rights, abortion, the death penalty and a million other issues and then come on a forum and slag off another country for being modern, civilised and liberal.

you see, AGAIN !!! You guys just can't live without telling others what to do, can you? It's your way of being liberal, LOL That's why it's next to impossible to discuss with many of you. This "it's my way or the highway" bs doesn't work. Just because we don't want to be and live like you, it doesn't mean, you gotta right to tell us how to live or behave. Respect if you want to be respected.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
22 Jan 2013  #11
I don't know, the recent polls show increasing support for pulling out of the EU, toughening immigration laws and getting tougher on crime to bring down the violent crime rates. These all seem pretty conservative stances to me.

I have yet to meet any Brits with anything nice to say about their Council Estates (boy did I misunderstand THAT term the first time I heard it) and the riots back last summer seemed to have solidified a few of their citizenry. Many do seem a bit unhappy that they destroyed so much of their heritage and lost some traditions in the name of multiculturalism. Whether that will translate to a relatively stronger Conservative leaning, I don't know.

Was talking with a Brit last week about the differences between London, the other major cities and the countryside, there could be a side of the UK that many don't see due to trudging along on the tourist trails. The small towns I visited were far more easy-going and the people quite a bit more mmmmm,.......curious and tolerant than the masses in the city areas.

The Scots I run into seem to be more comfortable albeit holding on to their opinions very strongly as well.
OP 4 eigner 2 | 831
22 Jan 2013  #12
I don't know, the recent polls show increasing support for pulling out of the EU, toughening immigration laws and getting tougher on crime to bring down the violent crime rates. These all seem pretty conservative stances to me.

well, then the ones (some of them) we have a pleasure to share this forum with, are either not Brits or a very chosen bunch of extreme cases of left wingers.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
22 Jan 2013  #13
It shouldn't surprise you so much if you think about it. Expats, almost of by the definition of their situation, are not going to be evenly distributed between liberal and conservatives. Conservatives will TEND to stay at home, liberals will TEND to be a bit more mobile. You see the same thing in that military and business people TEND to be conservative while journalists, artists, teachers and the like, TEND towards liberalism.

So, doesn't surprise me at all.

For that matter, I would not be surprised if computer usage, forum participation and using the Internet for social networking were to show a similar slant in their participants.
Wroclaw Boy
22 Jan 2013  #14
Dont forget about the Dutch, you wont find a more liberal nation than the Dutch. Germans are right up there too, not sure aboout the French or Italians.
OP 4 eigner 2 | 831
22 Jan 2013  #15
It shouldn't surprise you so much if you think about it. Expats, almost of by the definition of their situation, are not going to be evenly distributed between liberal and conservatives.

generally, you're right but there are always some exceptions to the rule. I've been to many countries in my life but it hasn't changed my political views whatsoever. Actually, seeing what socialism and so called liberalism, did/does to other people, it made me dislike it even more.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
22 Jan 2013  #16
I wasn't talking about the travel changing them into a more liberal group. It's people being willing to venture outside their comfort zones and and establishing new boundaries. If anything I would expect that travel moves a few of them to conservatism.

For instance, I see Democrat Abroad groups far more often and with far higher membership than I have comparable Republican groups except close around the military bases.
Radders 3 | 47
25 Jan 2013  #17
Conservatives will TEND to stay at home, liberals will TEND to be a bit more mobile

Or, like our 19th Century Prime Minister, Palmerston, have a reputation as a Conservative at home and a Liberal abroad?

The British left would argue that most Brits aren't left-wing enough - we don't support the Scandinavian-style welfare state with high taxation, nor the French style of social protectionism and job security or the German compulsion for social-democratic consensus. However, most Brits of all political shades support a free, national health service - something most Americans regard as 'socialist'. Our comfort zone is somewhere around government spending at a third of GDP, and currently you're seeing a claw-back from the 40% level reached by the last left-wing government.

We're also, on the whole, incredibly tolerant. Our immigration is more in the US 'melting pot' pattern that gives everyone a fair go than the 'apartheid' of Turks in Germany or North Africans in France. Of course we've had the English catholic rather than the Latin catholic church setting the moral agenda for the last 450 years so we don't get too excited about people's sexual behaviour - and most of our Puritans left in the Mayflower in disgust, to morph into Sarah Palin and the Tea Party ...

Combine that with an affection for tradition and history, a love of 'fair play' and having a capital that is a truly international city and quite different from the rest of the country and I can understand why Americans think us left-wing.
TheOther 5 | 3,710
25 Jan 2013  #18
Legend has it that Brits don't get excited at all about sex... :)
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
25 Jan 2013  #19
Most British people I've spoken to are pretty left-wing politically. They all seem to be pro-gay rights, pro diversity, non-religious and extremely proud of their country being multicultural.

I'm probably all those things, but without consciously gving myself any political label.

I can't think of many people I've known in the UK who would admit to being homophobic, racist, anti diversity or the like. I like to think the numbers are very few anyway.
jon357 63 | 14,342
25 Jan 2013  #20
I like to think the numbers are very few anyway.

So do I, though the Daily Mail comments page can be amusing for the Alf Garnetts that post there.People in the UK, as a rule, are reasonable and fair and open-minded.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
25 Jan 2013  #21
They are, I agree. That said, the immigration to the UK does now have to be properly reduced as there is a housing and resources shortage. If that sounds like I am contradicting myself I shall have to admit maybe I am, but there is quite a strain on things over there and that is boosting some of the beasties that usually don't get much of a voice over there.
zetigrek
26 Jan 2013  #22
who would admit to being

but are they in fact?
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
26 Jan 2013  #23
Probably not, although of course a few always will be in every society.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
26 Jan 2013  #24
British society is still divided into social classes which tend to keep to themselves.

Not really,not in the way you imagine. No more so than in any other country. Rich Americans will spend little time mingling with poor Americans will they?

Lower and middle class are probably left-oriented

Some may be,but you will find the ranks of right wingers come mainly from the working/out of work classes and some of the climbing middle classes will feign a left wing view while holding strong right wing views. Sometimes this can be put down to left socialy and right economically.

What so many Americans seem to call *left wing* or *Socialist* in all honesty are just called *good manners* or *human deceny* in the UK and we feel no need to attach a political *value* to these ideas. Again, Im sure it comes down to Americans only having 2 choices in their supposedly world leading *democracy*. AFAIC you cannot have democracy when its reduced to Yes or No answers.
Rysavy 10 | 308
26 Jan 2013  #25
Are they?

The few native Brits I've met I'd call kinda stuffy, unless they were drunk out of their socks. ^_^. But those were tourists OR army units that were housed near our own Bn. I would consider them more conservative and traditionalists. Not extreme right like in US..but we are a bigger place after all ^_^. Loud voices are needed to carry the distances. I see the extreme left in Brits only in forums on the web.

Maybe better wording is why is the Brit Govt seemingly liberal leaning.?

AS a conservative myself... in view the left can be a lot of groups, some are simply caring more for humanatraian and ecologial causes above practicality; but Liberals who have almost completely infiltrated the Democratic party, are pretty much a socialist agenda and they will promise anything until they can finally get full power.

I do not believe in "labeling" I do not support PRO GAY. Nor PRO WHITE. PRO HISPANIC. There are no "disadvantaged" classes other than the poor-regardless of color. Equal means equal. Shifting balances to which animals are more equal than others is not equality. I cannot get hired easily by my looks..but in paper? disclosing I am FEMALE-HISPANIC-NATIVE -VETERAN and speaking spanish? I fill the quotas and am hired. I shouldnt HAVE to do that when I am qualified candidate ! And it is my personal cause to erase such policies for every day am an american.

I want to see fair immigration (NO one gets by being illegal and everyones application is seen fairly and treated equal- (no dif between a mexican, a russian or an aussie). I want to see fed govt spending strictly controlled. Programs streamlined (save money with less administrators-more fieldworkers). Shorter terms and term limits for Senators and Representatives. I want the borders tightened and more sovereignity exercised.

Which seems what UK is planning soon? makes them sound like they are swinging pretty far right in that respect.

What so many Americans seem to call *left wing* or *Socialist* in all honesty are just called *good manners* or *human deceny* in the UK

Not sure where you are native to, but " left wing" (do not confuse with only the democatic party) in the US is NOT connected with mannerly people!

Unless professional politicians with an eye on a seat in senate, house or the white house.
Most are the rudest, foam at the mouth nasty vitrolic spouting busybodies you could ever meet. A large portion of my family is California... I got some first hand. Smoozy lawyers and education professionals in the non -mathmatical fields. the "stuffy" Brits I met I would consider over-conservative with their fomality and manners.

With exception of abortion debating in street that has all tempers high.. ?
you see a confrontation between left /right.. on the right we spout they misguded nutjobs and commies( there are usually fewer of us since we are not perpetual students getting grants for the next degree in basketweaving so dont have that kind of spare time) - they spout oppressor, babykillers, bigots and then personal insults. They are more likely to be the one screaming in a Policeman or opposing picketers face. More likely to make it physical; to throw something, destroy something. throw rock down off bridge at cars of soldiers wives (2004-2005-2006) when they see base sticker on window. Be a professional teacher that tells children (Tacoma 2005) that their parent deserves to die in Iraq for being in an "illegal war" ... DONT tell ME Left is synonmous with "polite!' LAWLZ

Human decency..is only for the left? WoW! Rly? see how many "left wing" organizations help the poor in a real way..or even give to CHARITY. Not Organizations like ACORN...CHARITY. My aunt spends time boycotting this or that and giving 20 bucks to a chirstmas angel. But has never worked in a soup kitchen, never helped build a house, never paid anyones power or phone.Watched children for free to help someone get established in a job. Never shopped for anyone. Wicked old right wing me has. :( So it is often insulting to be labeled as some unfeeling hater of all gays, non-whites(what IS non white?), women and progress.

It may be different in UK. I don't think most countries have such a deep division between their parties (then again the Serbo-croatia conflict might shocwase an extreme in that?). But most countries are not as big as most of our states. Poland is the size of New Mexico. UK? maybe size of PA ?

Maybe thinking of each state like it's own country might help. Texas actually WAS it's own country when it was swallowed with a pen stroke just before Civil War. Would UK want Ukraninan polices? Or Danish? Or Greek? How big would the split in parties become if other countries/states had a real say on how you were taxed, where the taxes went, what laws were passed? And each party stood for a small block of countries?

Again, Im sure it comes down to Americans only having 2 choices in their supposedly world leading *democracy*. AFAIC you cannot have democracy when its reduced to Yes or No answers

Though technically we are a republic andn the citizenry behave as such..that word Democracy is very misued by politicos. our economic policies are democratic..not our govt.

But you got it right there!
and it also hints at the collaborative corruption of both "leading" parties that an electorate and "primaries" are still existing :(

Id love a strong new party. With equal opportunity fo rmeia. Even a non of the above so a new candidate must be chosen for my registered party!
OP 4 eigner 2 | 831
26 Jan 2013  #26
The few native Brits I've met I'd call kinda stuffy, unless they were drunk out of their socks.

that sounds about right but yet, anytime the discussion went politics, 90% of those who I've talked to, were left wingers.

I see the extreme left in Brits only in forums on the web.

that's true, it seems like we gathered the creme de la creme of left wingers on PF (most of them are nice people though).

Id love a strong new party

agree 100% (as long as it has nothing to do with communism/socialism, I'm all for it).
Bieganski 17 | 906
26 Jan 2013  #27
Why are Brits so left-wing?

Some would attribute it to

British fools paying homage to their spiritual leader Karl Marx.

It's a fair assessment to say that the UK's class divisions which have endured for centuries with no end in sight along with their flirtatious naivety regarding true socialism have lead to their leftist leanings.

I'll also add that the unrequited love affair the British have had with Soviet and post-Soviet Russia goes a long way in explaining the frequent anti-Polish sentiment expressed in British society and in particular its media outlets.
zetigrek
26 Jan 2013  #28
I'll also add that the unrequited love affair the British have had with Soviet and post-Soviet Russia goes a long way in explaining the frequent anti-Polish sentiment expressed in British society and in particular its media outlets

What a silly theory.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
27 Jan 2013  #29
Most British people I've spoken to are pretty left-wing politically

That is probably about right. The only reason the 'conservative' party won is because Labour did so horrendously badly, but the conservatives in Britain, even though David Cameron is supposedly a Christian, are more financially right wing than morally. Not like PiS in Poland, who are financially more to the left but morally very right.

They seem to be pro-gay rights, pro diversity, non-religious and extremely proud of their country being multicultural.

That pretty much hits the nail on the head in general terms but remember

Pro diversity - They have to be since they have now allowed and legalized so much

Proud of being multicultural - Same as the above. They've shot themselves in the foot with opening the gates wide open and now, even though it causes them more trouble than ever, they like to pretend the country is fine and they are proud of British meaning, almost any race under the son. It's a cover. If they could get rid of blacks and Asians they would do it in a heartbeat, but it's too late.

I hope Poland does not follow in their footsteps, it is not too late for them, yet, but it might be soon.

Side Note/ I did a stand up comedy gig tonight. The guy before me was black. He did some poor jokes about how he doesn't understand directions from white people but does understand them from black people. Honestly it wasn't that funny but got a big [and obvious] white guilt laugh. I went up, did some stuff about how white people are so scared to say a anything these days and worry about accidently being racist [like lets place chess, I wanna be white so I can go first]. The black audience [not many of them] found it funny enough but the white liberal pussy footers in the front row were silent as a mouse. Perhaps I wasn't funny, but they laughed at the black guy. Perhaps I only make black people laugh. Just an example of how messed up it is in Britain [similar in the US I would think]. In Poland no one would be afraid to laugh at the stuff. It wasn't even anything racist, just observational humour about race.
modafinil - | 418
27 Jan 2013  #30
Morality is based on Christianity here. So people believe it is just to heal the sick, shelter the homeless, give to the poor, love thy neighbour...

Also most school and college teachers are usually left wing as is the most well known media outlet, the BBC.


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