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Britain... What the Poles did for us.


marqoz - | 195
4 Mar 2010 #421
It was wrong deed to act against your Polish allies who fought long, hard and bravely to save their independence.

Britain lost 2 times: in WW1 and WW2. Each time they tried to win the war, they needed help from younger cousins across the Big Pond. And each time they power diminished while American augmented.

If you're an American, I understand your line about Japan. Americans fought really bravely. Respect. Anyway, my comment was about Britons and their peace from Soviets, not about Americans and Japans.
jonni 16 | 2,485
4 Mar 2010 #422
to act against your Polish allies

Who, except Russia and Germany acted against Poland?

who fought long, hard and bravely to save their independence.

And the Soviets didn't?

they needed help from younger cousins

Nephews, sons even, but not cousins.

And each time they power diminished

Yet they are still one of the world's leading countries.

Americans fought really bravely.

And Britons didn't?
marqoz - | 195
4 Mar 2010 #423
And Britons didn't?

So you're a Briton though ;-)
Yes they did, of course but after 8.05.1945 not as much as Americans.

And as you've mentioned Soviets.
They started war together with Nazis. You've forgotten?
I have respect for brave soldiers, but look they were from the evil empire. And in 1945 they weren't fighting for Soviet independence (ironic attribute for all these nations in Soviet captivity) but for new dependencies.

Yet they are still one of the world's leading countries.

Illusive. Comparing to former power.
jonni 16 | 2,485
4 Mar 2010 #424
Yes they did, of course but after 8.05.1945 not as much as Americans.

But hard enough.

They started war together with Nazis. You've forgotten?

Ahem, they were invaded by the Nazis. The war for them started in 1940. The partition of Poland was something they wouldn't see as a war, and indeed they didn't have to fight to do it.

Illusive. Comparing to former power.

Illusive. Oh dear, pertaining to an illusion. In fact it's very real.
marqoz - | 195
4 Mar 2010 #425
The war for them started in 1940. The partition of Poland was something they wouldn't see as a war, and indeed they didn't have to fight to do

That's a point of view presented in their deceitful propaganda. We're not bound to see the same.
Yes, Soviets did have to fight. You haven't read about it? Not all Polish units fought because its commanders were deceived by Soviet propaganda and incoherent commands from the Chief Staff. However many did fight for example in: Border battle with KOP units, Battle of Szack, Kock, Defence of Grodno. It was big war operation, Soviet crossed Polish frontiers with 500 thousands soldiers.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
4 Mar 2010 #426
It must be somewhere - you could try to find it: Harry And His Amazing Quest To Find
The Lost Invitation (it's kinda romantic, like searching for the Holy Grail.)

Unfortunately this type of request is a lost cause. I've requested a copy of the invitation from Harry in the past. This is what he came up with (an itinerary):

Official Programme Part 2 of 2 lists the Allied airforces which were to take part. Note the name "Poland" on the list. Also see Official Programme, Part 1 of 2 which lists the bands which were to march. Note the name "Poland" on the list.

naval-history.net/WW2MiscVictoryParade2.htm

It seems the link Mr Highpants provided in his quoted text doesn't show up in my post when it's copied, thus I provided the above link which is what showed up as the source when I clicked on Harry's link. For fairness, here's the thread to which the above relates:

https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/news/petition-prime-minister-recognise-35884/

I think Norman Davies clarifies this little embarassing episode of Polish/Pommie relations nicely at p.505 of "Rising '44". It's just another link in a chain that was symptomatic of HMG's attitude toward Poland and her people. The sooner the Brits accept that they didn't treat a friend and ally in the way the should and could have, the sooner these issues can be put to bed. The problem is that the generation of Poles who fought and survived WW2 in the main were too polite and humble to remonstrate with HMG. My generation however demand answers and justice, not excuses...

At least Britain stood by Poland, if nobody else did.

G'day mate. You seem quite knowledgeable and unafraid to express a point of view. Perhaps you'd be interested in challenging some of my thoughts on the British stab in the back toward Poland in the thread "What did Poland get out of the Wars and Struggles for others" where I talk about Teheran Conference and so on - hopefully you'll give me a run for my money (a pint of Pomgolia's finest and warmest ale to you if you do old fruit ;-))!
Bzibzioh
4 Mar 2010 #427
The sooner the Brits accept that they didn't treat a friend and ally in the way the should and could have, the sooner these issues can be put to bed.

I agree. This issue should have been dealt with long time ago. And I believe eventually it will be. Now UK is busy apologizing to 150 thousand of his own children which were shipped overseas to Canada and Australia over the years.
jonni 16 | 2,485
4 Mar 2010 #428
We're not bound to see the same

Of course; would you deny the Soviets their spoils of war?

some of my thoughts on the British stab in the back toward Poland

Your thoughts, hmm. And what else might Britain have done? Continued the war alone against an ally?

which were shipped overseas to Canada and Australia

Beats being stuck in a 1950s orphanage.
marqoz - | 195
4 Mar 2010 #429
Of course; would you deny the Soviets their spoils of war

Spoils at German expense I wouldn't.
But I would deny spoils at the expense of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Romania, Hungary, Czechoslovakia.
If I my co-patriots had some tanks and artilleries they would deny more effectively.
Britons and Americans had all these weaponry and a nuke - and granted these 'spoils' for free. And it cost them much in effect during the cold war period. But it cost EE hundred times more.
Harry
4 Mar 2010 #430
And you weren't nice enough to indicate, or quote, where exactly in the text those lines are. Makes one think is nothing there.

Why do you bother with such pathetic lies? In this post I very clearly quote the exact text of the statement of the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. McNeil). Let me quote it again for you:

The right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Kensington asked very pointedly a question about Polish Forces appearing in the Victory Parade, as also did the right hon Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition. It is not true that we have not invited any members of those fighting Poles to take part in the Parade. Let me be quite honest. We have not invited the Navy and the Army, but we did invite some of the Poles who flew in the Battle of Britain, to march past in the R.A.F. contingent.

yes Harry produce the document that shows England invited Polish troops to Victory parade, or forever hold your peace

Go buy a copy of the memoirs of General Anders. Read page 299. Then come back here and agree that you were wrong to lie about the invitation to the 1946 victory parade.

The problem is that the generation of Poles who fought and survived WW2 in the main were too polite and humble to remonstrate with HMG.

Oh look: it's our favourite little racist back to post rubbish! The Poles were so polite that they refused to attend the victory parade because they didn't approve of the guest list. But I suspect that you consider that to be polite.

My generation however demand answers and justice, not excuses...

Is yours the generation that will finally pay the bill racked by Poles in the UK during and after WWII? Britain paid its bill to the USA (finally finished a few years ago), when is Poland going to pay its bill?

Perhaps you'd be interested in challenging some of my thoughts on the British stab in the back toward Poland in the thread "What did Poland get out of the Wars and Struggles for others" where I talk about Teheran Conference and so on -

Funny how you never go into any detail about the treaty which Britain and Poland signed which required Britian to help Poland with regard to the USSR.

a pint of Pomgolia's finest and warmest ale to you if you do old fruit

And finish your post with a spot of casual racism. A classy post from a classy racist.
marqoz - | 195
4 Mar 2010 #431
He's describing the habit some Poles have of not looking at what really happened in the past.

No. He's only showing how the Western powers don't care about how some facts in history look from Polish and EE perspective. However it's not a whining. It's a fact. Not even so sad, rather making discussion more difficult.
Bzibzioh
4 Mar 2010 #432
Why do you bother with such pathetic lies?

"Hi, this is Harry. I can’t come to have an intelligent discourse right now because all I have to offer is my paranoia and pure hatred … AND still no invitation ... but if you leave your name and number, I will get back to you as soon as I come up with further verbal venom that proves my lack of any ability to look at facts and draw my own conclusions. Thanks. BEEP………………."
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
4 Mar 2010 #433
Having not read any of the posts of this thread except the one quoted above, and not going to read any of them, either, I must say I agree with everything you've just said about Harry ...
Harry
4 Mar 2010 #434
I just got my arse handed to me yet again and was yet again exposed as a liar. but instead of slinking off back under my rug, I'm going to try debating the person instead of the topic. Maybe I'll be less of an abject failure at that.

Why not try discussing the issue? Oh, sorry, I forgot that you can not: once the lies and bitterness have been stripped away, there is nothing left of you.
Bzibzioh
4 Mar 2010 #435
Harry

Getting debating advice from you is like getting investment advice from Bernie Madoff, or sobriety coaching from Lindsay Lohan. You are unable to discuss without trying to belittle or to denigrate Poland or your opponent personally. For you simple misunderstanding is always "a lie". How is that heavy-handed bullying working for ya?
Harry
4 Mar 2010 #436
you .... You .... your .... you .... ya

Well there is a textbook example of how to debate an issue and not the person.

denigrate Poland

Yes, I hate Poland so much that I choose to live in Poland.
Bzibzioh
4 Mar 2010 #437
Well there is a textbook example of how to debate an issue and not the person.

So show me the money ... er .. damn invitation

Yes, I hate Poland so much that I choose to live in Poland.

I guess if you live in Scotland, anyplace else seems exciting :)
Harry
4 Mar 2010 #438
So show me the money ...

I'll just hand it to your 'manager', eh?

er .. damn invitation

\Read the memoirs of man who was the General Inspector of the Polish Armed Forces at the time of the parade. If you want to call him a liar for insisting that there was an invitation, go ahead.

I guess if you live in Scotland, anyplace else seems exciting

I have never lived in Scotland.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,499
4 Mar 2010 #439
I guess if you live in Scotland, anyplace else seems exciting :)

This from a Canadian ?
Scotland invented Canada !
Bzibzioh
4 Mar 2010 #440
I'll just throw it on the stage for you, eh? Like most of your customers do.

How wonderfully desperate of you!

A blasé veneer of a hardened pro you like to assume is cracking

Scotland invented Canada !

Damn, I was all set to bust your balls :)
Harry
4 Mar 2010 #441
How wonderfully desperate of you!

I don't believe this! I've got a trig midterm tomorrow, and I'm being chased by Guido the killer pimp.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
4 Mar 2010 #442
Scotland invented Canada !

ah, no, add Irish and English as well, not to mention French;). Well, the governing system was, but the rest was the Native Nations invention.
Bzibzioh
4 Mar 2010 #443
I've got a trig midterm tomorrow, and I'm being chased by Guido the killer pimp.

That's the only time in your life when you are chased by anyone so enjoy!
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
8 Mar 2010 #444
Your thoughts, hmm. And what else might Britain have done? Continued the war alone against an ally?

No, not at all. What I say in a nutshell is that HMG stabbed Poland in the back by not letting the Poles know about the ramifications of Teheran and thereafter continuing to use Polish soldiers to fight a war that was now irrelevant to Poland given the fait accompli. It's really that simple. What do you think?

Do you think HMG did enough for Poland, bearing in mind that in an alliance the flip side of the coin is that you are expected to not only take positive steps to assist, but to also tell your ally that you are aware of something that prejudices the continued existence of your ally?

Now UK is busy apologizing to 150 thousand of his own children which were shipped overseas to Canada and Australia over the years.

And more appropriately our prime minister apologised too, and rightly so. These children were placed by Britain into Australia's care and they were let down badly. It's a shameful chapter in our history.


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