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Benefit cuts for Poles in The UK?


zetigrek
16 Feb 2013 #61
So that's the horrible struggle for British NHS? Abortions procedures and labours of babies? Sounds fishy.

I thought you'd say something along: "Poles are smuggling their cancer patients to Britain."
Mister H 11 | 761
16 Feb 2013 #62
So that's the horrible struggle for British NHS? Abortions procedures and labours of babies? Sounds fishy.

Whatever they are doing, foreigners (EU and non-EU) should pay for the NHS until they have paid in at least 3 years worth of NI / tsx.
zetigrek
16 Feb 2013 #63
That wouldn't be fair. You can say that about benefits but NHS should be accessible since the first monthly contribution. Otherwise it's screwing Poles.

You are silly if you think people go to Britain for health service... barring abortion - it's illegal in Poland.
Mister H 11 | 761
16 Feb 2013 #64
That wouldn't be fair. You can say that about benefits but NHS should be accessible since the first monthly contribution.

Why wouldn't it be fair ?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
16 Feb 2013 #65
because it is a 'national health service' - surely better to provide first line health service for all people living in the country than have people with TB for example or dropping babies in the street. I must stress I do not refer to one nationality, just talking in general.
zetigrek
16 Feb 2013 #66
Why wouldn't it be fair ?

Because I believe in Poland you are insured since the first day of your job, and it's the normal way public health systems work in the world.

Contributions for health service are like lottery tickets. If you ever suffer cancer, even whole your life contributions might not be enough to cover summary costs of the treatment - that means other people chip in for your treatment. You can as well never got seriously sick and feel like a sucker because you gave more than you received in kind. We all take part in that lottery. Why do you want to exclude people who work and contribute just as you? You were insured from the day 1 too :)
Mister H 11 | 761
16 Feb 2013 #67
Why do you want to exclude people who work and contribute just as you? You were insured from the day 1 too :)

You are not comparing like with like. When was my ' day1' ?

When I was growing up, my parents had been paying in for years as had their parents.

If my 'day 1' was my first day at work, my family had already been paying in for decades by that stage.
poland_
16 Feb 2013 #68
You are silly if you think people go to Britain for health service... barring abortion - it's illegal in Poland.

adviceguide.org.uk/england/healthcare_e/healthcare_help_with_health_costs_e/nhs_charges_for_people_from_abroad.htm#NHSchargesandpeoplefromabroad
zetigrek
16 Feb 2013 #69
When I was growing up, my parents had been paying in for years as had their parents.

So your parent were paying for themselves and every child they had... I hope they did not have them 12 :)
zetigrek
16 Feb 2013 #71
warszawski

why have you given me that link?

No, they had two.

Does a parent in Britain pay health insurance contribution for his children?
ToryRight - | 17
17 Feb 2013 #72
If David Cameron cuts benefits massively for EU migrants I can see his popularity booming, which can only be a good thing.

He should start by stopping all benefits going to other countries because that's just stupid beyond belief.
Warszawette - | 128
17 Feb 2013 #73
Hi Tory! Agree with you! I also believe this has to be stopped and not only in UK.
alex67 1 | 14
17 Feb 2013 #74
If David Cameron cuts benefits massively for EU migrants I can see his popularity booming, which can only be a good thing.

He should start by stopping all benefits going to other countries because that's just stupid beyond belief.

Couldn't agree more... !!
Well said....
Ant63 11 | 403
17 Feb 2013 #75
I thought you'd say something along: "Poles are smuggling their cancer patients to Britain."

Thats a bit harsh Zeti

I had a Polish friend I used to see regularly on Sunday mornings. A big feller and rather tough looking and I was surprised to see him crying one morning. I was unaware his son was disabled and that morning his son had said to him "Why me?". A difficult question to answer. Over a period of time he told me the reason he came to England was that there was nothing for his son in Poland. No future and it was impossible for him to attend school. In the UK a bus was supplied to get him to school and free access to medication and care through the NHS. This isn't a criticism as I'd do the same if it was me. It demonstrates the difference in thinking and care over the disabled in Poland and the UK.

Recently, and this is on going, a friend of ours in Poland became seriously ill. A single woman in her mid thirties with no living relatives. In November she was operated on for a brain tumour and has since developed a heart condition. The doctors pronounced her unfit to work, but a ZUS(?) doctor says she is fit to work. She is appealing the decision but she has had no money since November and is relying on hand outs to eat. She cannot afford the medication she requires and is deteriorating fast.

Of course people move for medical reasons. Who can blame them?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
17 Feb 2013 #76
If I had not paid taxes and zus in Poland I would have no entitlement to the Polish health system.

Because that's how the system works here, also for Poles.

Why should EU immigrants be allowed to use the NHS even before they have contributed to the UK in the form of tax and NI.

Because that's how the system works there, also for English. As I understand it, EU people have the same rights as locals, and hat's how it works in both mentioned cases. What's the problem then ?
ToryRight - | 17
17 Feb 2013 #77
Should David Cameron and François Hollande make it so you need to have lived in Great Britain and France for 7 years (like Spain) before you can claim anything?

British and French nationals wouldn't be affected, obviously.

The British and French benefit systems are too easy for EU immigrants to exploit, it needs to be sorted.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
17 Feb 2013 #78
Should David Cameron and François Hollande make it so you need to have lived in Great Britain and France for 7 years (like Spain) before you can claim anything?

Are you asking me ? Make it 200 years then.

The British and French benefit systems are too easy for EU immigrants to exploit, it needs to be sorted.

Then please sort, thanks in advance.
Ironside 49 | 9,917
17 Feb 2013 #79
When I was growing up, my parents had been paying in for years as had their parents.

You clearly don't understand how that system works.
It isn't based on individual contributions to health services.
It is based on a correct assumption that more people would pay in than use it. Also paid in money are used in the same years they have been paid but if I know something about politician even in advance.

The problem start when a number of people using health services(x) increase over a number of people paying in (y)upsetting the balance(B). {Unbalance -U}

like x/y = B when 2x/y= U

Now because people are living longer and they are having less children such system is due to go busted sooner or later. Short term solution is to bring in immigrants.

Funny though that they are blamed for shortages.

Anyway democracy is doomed as people seems to have no slightest idea how things works.
Barney 14 | 1,469
17 Feb 2013 #80
Should David Cameron and François Hollande make it so you need to have lived in Great Britain and France for 7 years (like Spain) before you can claim anything?

That is not true any EU national going to live in Spain is treated exactly the same as a Spanish national.

National govs cannot unilaterally change the regulations for EU nationals without the changes also applying to state nationals.

What is so difficult to understand?
ToryRight - | 17
17 Feb 2013 #81
Iaine Duncan Smith wants immigrants to have lived in Britain for at least a year before receiving any benefits.

Not long enough?

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9876143/Immigrants-must-live-in-Britain-for-a-year-before-claiming-benefits-says-welfare-minister.html

It is true because in Spain everyone has to have lived there for seven years including nationals.
thetenminuteman 1 | 80
17 Feb 2013 #82
It is true because in Spain everyone has to have lived there for seven years including nationals.

Not true.

There is no residency requirements in Spain, only the requirement to have paid enough insurance.

Of course, you must be legally resident. The UK would be well advised to follow the EU example of requiring people to register for residence certificates after 3 months.
Barney 14 | 1,469
17 Feb 2013 #83
It is true because in Spain everyone has to have lived there for seven years including nationals.

That is nonsense just like your claim about France.
ToryRight - | 17
17 Feb 2013 #84
What IDS is suggesting is better.

It will screw benefit claiming migrants without hurting British people, so it's win win.

They just need to make it apply to everyone and our problems will be no more!

spainlawyer.com/guia-legal/pensiones-y-subsidios/las-prestaciones-contributivas

Strict benefit laws in Spain, do we need laws like that to stop EU benefit tourism?
hudsonhicks 21 | 346
18 Feb 2013 #85
How many Single Polish mummies do you think this country is supporting right this minute? Hmm probably thousands.. and Lithuanians and Estonians etc..

Here's just one story.

thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4753651/lithuanian-immigrant-youre-a-soft-touch.html

[quote]A MIGRANT mum thanked the UK yesterday for letting her claim £14,500 a year in benefits.
Natalija Belova, 33, told The Sun how she spurns full-time work - yet can afford foreign holidays and buys designer clothes.
The Lithuanian said: "British benefits give me and my daughter a good life."
She has milked soft-touch Britain for £50,000 in benefits and yesterday said: "I simply take what is given to me."

Reading Polish forums like
benefity.org.uk
reveals that information for Single Mummies is quite popular!

Tip of the iceberg.
poland_
18 Feb 2013 #86
"I simply take what is given to me."

It is not the single mum who is at fault, its the system which is far too PC, in nearly every budget the mantra is tax the rich and give to the poor. What is the use of having a booming economy if all you do is let in more econ- migrants, the dole queues will not be shortened. Target the bottom feeders, make them work for the money, close down internet sites promoting loopholes. Make one of the islands in Scotland a holding center for asylum seekers. Make all EU workers pay private medical insurance for the first 12 months.

A Polish recruitment agent, Iwona Dilinskas, is quoted.

In Poland, she says, child benefit is £10 a month for three children. There is no working tax credit or child tax credit. If she were British, she says "I'd probably not want to work more than 16 hours a week. What for? If I work 16 hours or less, they pay 80pc of my rent [as housing benefit]. And all my council tax. I get working tax credit, child tax credit, child benefit. So, to be honest - why work?"

The quality of the British debate is so poor that we almost never look at this from the point of view of the low-waged worker. After every budget, the IFS will dutifully work out if it has been "fair" - ie, gives the most to the poorest. The LibDems will judge a budget by this metric. That's a nice, easy, simple graph.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2012/12/exposing-the-british-welfare-trap
Barney 14 | 1,469
18 Feb 2013 #87
in nearly every budget the mantra is tax the rich

What a sad little rant, the fact is that the rich live off the efforts of the poor.

The industries that pay no or very little tax sponge off the rest in society they use the transport infrastructure paid for by taxation, they pay minimum wage that has to be subsidised by the tax payer. When they get into trouble they are always bailed out by the tax payer their mantra is always privatise profit nationalise debt.

It’s the rich who see something wrong in paying a living wage yet whine about bottom feeders while the government subsidise their enterprises through benefit.

Make all EU workers pay private medical insurance for the first 12 months.

If you want a total re negotiation of the relevant EU treaties that’s fine just go home until the negotiations are complete.

I get sick in my stomach when the "classy elite" start whinging about bottom feeders and how many ivory back scratchers its costing them compared with the billions spent on pointless things like trident, banksters, rail franchises, CAP, pointless wars that only benefit industry and a whole host of other benefits for the boys.
poland_
18 Feb 2013 #88
It’s the rich who see something wrong in paying a living wage yet whine about bottom feeders while the government subsidise their enterprises through benefit.

Voting labour created the EU/economic migrant problem the UK have today. How could you compare a blue chip which employs 1,000's of workers, against the ' Gallaghers' of this world, who only sponge off the state,work black and don't contribute a penny, moreover they are proudly passing down the 'asbo baton' to the next generation of ' sponge-likes' binge drinking, anti social behavior and lack of culture is prerequisite.
Barney 14 | 1,469
18 Feb 2013 #89
Voting labour created the EU/economic migrant problem the UK have today.

There is not really any big problem with EU migrants, they don’t cost the taxpayer a huge amount compared to farmers, the rail industry, the nuclear industry and a plethora of other state spongers.

Government subsidised industry/commerce really have no excuse not to pay a living wage.

The Urban elite don’t pay living wages to the people who service them instead prefer to have the state pay thus dodging their responsibility and getting all the benefits.

The "Chav" class you poorly and pathetically lampoon as cultureless alcoholics are what keeps the wheels on society not some bean counter who enjoys state sponsored opera and has the big wine glass at home.
zetigrek
18 Feb 2013 #90
designer clothes

I don't see her wearing designer clothes, lol.
Actually is her surname really Lithuanian?


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