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Advice on child support (Irish with my Polish husband)


cailinbeag 1 | 7
22 Aug 2013 #1
Im Irish living in Ireland with my polish husband. We both work on minimum wage, me 19 hrs and my husband 30-35hrs. We have a 2 yr old and I have 2 children from a previous relationship, whom he is deceased 4 yrs. We rent privately. My husband has an ex wife in Poland and and an 8 yr old son, she works in her parents shop and still lives at home. The childs school is also in the same area. My husband was paying 350zl pm, which was agreed by the polish court when they divorced when the child was a baby. Over the last few years she has stopped access, mainly when she heard that my husband was now in a serious relationship in Ireland so it went to the courts in poland, he was allowed access but must write a letter to her first. He has done so a few times where she hasnt replied or answered her phone when we are in poland. For his last birthday, the child rejected gifts from my husband and then she rejected them, she made a comment that she doesnt want maintenance anymore. My husband still sent it like clockwork though...we got married this year in poland and timed it with his sons communion..we came to the Communion mass (i had waited outside) and my husband went inside the church and his son refused a large envelope that was full of gifts, cards and cash gifts from everyone...my husband was so upset by this. When we returned to Ireland, we put our finances together and decided that we cant afford the 350zl anymore so now we pay her 150zl since may..we have received a court letter now saying she wants an increase to 1000zl per month..my argument is, we have 3 other children to support, aswell as my husbands son and on getting married i had to surrender certain social welfare payments and with full rent and other living expenses we just cant afford to pay 1000zl..i admit the 150zl is very low but we would be putting that back to 350zl again..I think my husband was just too upset over the communion..she doesnt have too much expenses as she still lives at home and she works in her family business..does anyone have experience with the polish court and what would be reasonable maintenance..we are very worried because we just cant afford to pay for one child to have all the obscene luxuries she is demanding on the court letter ie dance, art, swimming classes..her list goes on and then the 3 other children have a very bare minimum life because of this?? PS my father paid for our wedding, we had 36 guests so it wasnt an over-the-top kind of 'do'
DominicB - | 2,709
22 Aug 2013 #2
You're farting in the wind, honey. 350 PLN is obscenely low for child support, and 1000 PLN is very far from unreasonable, and it's certainly not "obscene". 150 PLN is a slap in the face, and the court is not going to look on that kindly. If you are unhappy, tough cookies. NOBODY cares about your happiness, especially because you brought it upon yourself. Your husband will just have to take on another job, and probably you, too, as well. His first and foremost obligation is to his children from the first marriage, and that comes before you and your children. No court, Polish or otherwise, is going to see that differently. You knew that he had obligations before you married him. You were supremely stupid to marry a man with prior obigations and limited earning potential, and even more stupid to have a child with him. Whether the kids like him or not is only his problem and his problem alone. It has absolutely no bearing on child support, and the court won't take it into account. And nobody give a **** about how you or your husband feel about it. If you take your feelings into a court room, the judge will just laugh in your face. As for visitation rights, your husband can petition the court to enforce them. There's little else he can do, unless he wants to shell out the bucks for a good lawyer.

I feel sorry for your children , but that does not absolve your husband from paying child support, or diminish his responsibility in any way.
poland_
22 Aug 2013 #3
Im Irish living in Ireland with my polish husband

As a mother it is understandable you wish to protect your own children, so you must understand the reaction of the mother of your husbands child. The law in Poland can be somewhat bizarre to most non Poles. The person you married has a responsibility as a father to all of his children, if his first child in Poland has refused to see him I imagine this is an emotional stress he brings to you and your children. I am not an expert in Polish law although I have lived in this country for many years, my suggestion would be form a legal separation of assets between you and your husband on your next visit to Poland, any lease agreement you have in Ireland put in your name. In the event your husbands income is assessed by the Polish court they can only look at his income with a separation of assets and not your joint income/benefits.The wisest thing to do would be to encourage your husband to build bridges with his first child and mother.
Lenka 3 | 2,875
22 Aug 2013 #4
350 zl is very low. 500- 600 is the standard usually. The court will look how much he earns and make his decission based on that. and seriously- 350 zl is not even 100 pounds a month!!!
DominicB - | 2,709
22 Aug 2013 #5
my suggestion would be form a legal separation of assets between you and your husband on your next visit to Poland.

I wouldn't try that without expert legal advice and guidance. Courts do not deal kindly with selfish, greedy clowns trying to pull evasive shenannigans. Could backfire unless done exactly right.

I imagine this is an emotional stress he brings to you and your children

The court will not even listen to anything having to do with to "emotional stress", especially to third parties like the OP and her children. The court won't be in the slightest interested in the quality of the relationship between the husband and his ex-wife and their child. Best not to even bring it up and risk p*ssing off the judge. This is a case about cold hard cash and parental responsibility between the husband and his ex-wife. Emotions have nothing whatsoever to do with it, least of all those of his new wife, who really nobody gives a flying duck about. The only thing that will be taken into account is his assets and income, and possibly also his financial obligations to his new child, whose needs are subordinate to those of the first child.

The wisest thing to do would be to encourage your husband to build bridges with his first child and mother.

By far the wisest thing to do. Or at least not alienate then even more. They can make his life a lot more miserable than it already is. He has another ten years of child support to pay before the kid turns 18. And an Irish court will enforce a Polish court order.
Lenka 3 | 2,875
22 Aug 2013 #6
10 years if the kid drops out of shool. 17 years (till 25) if he'll go to university.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
22 Aug 2013 #7
you two offered to pay her 150 zl a month? After the son was cold to his father? so that is some kind of punishment for the child or what?

you know how much that is in pounds/euros right?
and swimming for her child is an 'obscene luxury'?
you shouldnt have got with a man with a child should you?
OP cailinbeag 1 | 7
22 Aug 2013 #8
Dominic, 1000zl per month is a lot for my husband to pay, bear in mind she was content with the first court ruling of 350zl.She's still living with her parents and working in their shop, she has no intentions to leave this village. Her expenses hasnt increased significantly. I wasnt stupid to marry him or have a baby with him.I didnt ask for marriage advice, I knew what I was doing. He first married when they were really young and she was pregnant and he has paid for his son in poland everytime without missing a payment. Her new request has a list of all these classes she wants to send him on with list of prices, cinema, clothes, meals out..it goes on..she wants my husband to pay for 100% of everything..she has no rent to pay, she lives, works and the school are within walking distance to each other..she has a car, we cant even afford a bicycle each. We walk half an hour to work, school and shops etc each day because we must, we cant afford taxis and buses everyday, I would rather use the money to put towards the grocery bill and no we cant find a second job each..Im working days and my husband nights...we barely have enough time to cook and clean and raise the kids. Our only time off is when we take a weeks holiday from work every few months. The exwife has 3 people in her house who helps her and sits the child when she goes to work.We dont have an extravagant lifestyle.We are content and living just within our means. He wont be going to court giving a detail account of emotional stress, Im aware how the Polish courts are, very primative and more than likely favour the mother..my husband has a responsibility for both his children, the first and second child are equally important and I dont see why she wants her son to have all these luxuries and his daughter must go without because of this. As you probably know, the cost of living is far less than in Ireland or England so yes 1000zl is alot for her to ask..its 62e per week and that is high for an Irish court when taking into account income and expenses. Maybe we dont feed our children or put clothes on their backs because ex wife wants to send the child for piano lessons and then cinema and wants my husband to pay for 100% of their lifestyle..
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
22 Aug 2013 #9
62 euros a week would not be high in Ireland, and you know it.

you chose a man with a child for whom he is responsible, what did you expect, for the child to disappear when yours came along?

and her lifestyle is not your business.
OP cailinbeag 1 | 7
22 Aug 2013 #10
150zl was only paid since may..and it wasnt going to be long term as we know she would be sending court letters anyway and would put it back to the 350zl.I did say it was very low I KNOW THIS and it wasnt a long term thing. she has put alot of things on the list that she wants to send the son not just swimming..there is about 40 different things..that was just to p**s her off..the child hasnt a clue and wasnt affected by it and she probably has told the child that my husband has never paid her..a few years back when my husband was talking on the phone to them she told the child not to call him dad but by is name..
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
22 Aug 2013 #11
quite frankly i do not blame her.....his dad has left the country and started a new family.
then turns up at first communion giving it large with a wodge of other peoples cash....
lovely dad. you do realise that if he has done this to one family he is more than capable of doing it to another right?
OP cailinbeag 1 | 7
22 Aug 2013 #12
I dont care what her lifestyle is, Im just stating that she doesnt need 62e per week when she doesnt have too many expenses...we survive on a basic living and she expects alot from my husband
Harry
22 Aug 2013 #13
150zl

That's a piiss take. 150zl isn't even going to pay for half of the kid's food. You were amazingly lucky that the court ordered him to only pay 350zl in the first place. You should have happily paid that, it's half what courts usually order fathers to pay, and that's fathers who are earning Polish wages, not the higher ones found in Ireland.
OP cailinbeag 1 | 7
22 Aug 2013 #14
i dont blame her about the 150zl but 1000zl is too much what we can afford...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
22 Aug 2013 #15
if you dont care what her lifestyle is why are you telling strangers on the internet all about it?
OP cailinbeag 1 | 7
22 Aug 2013 #16
im looking for advice and im just detailing what is involved so someone might give me some useful advice..i dont need opinions on this 150zl..yes i have mentioned a few times it is considerably low, but it was only since may and was to be reinstated to 350zl..we knew it would go to court and my husband wants an updated maintenance order because alot has changed since the first ruling of 350zl..the child was only a baby then and my husband was in poland then, living at his family home and working..now its completly different
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
22 Aug 2013 #17
my advice is to leave the bastard and go on the dole, jump before you are pushed you know?
DominicB - | 2,709
22 Aug 2013 #18
Dominic, 1000zl per month is a lot for my husband to pay, bear in mind she was content with the first court ruling of 350zl.She's still living with her parents and working in their shop, she has no intentions to leave this village. Her expenses hasnt increased significantly.

The court doesn't care about any of that. At all. Not in the least. You're simply farting in the wind.

I wasnt stupid to marry him or have a baby with him

If you believe that, you're even stupider than I thought.

I knew what I was doing

Then why did you do it? What did you expect when you married a loser with financial obligations for another child? Lobster by candlelight, with a string quartet?

We are content and living just within our means.

No, you're not. You're very unhappy and not able to meet even very modest financial obligations.

As far as the rest of what you've written, call your mom. She's the only possible person who might give a sh*t. No one else does, least of all a judge.

my advice is to leave the bastard and go on the dole, jump before you are pushed you know?

Or to take on a second job, both of you. Staying with this loser is just digging yourself in deeper. You'll NEVER be happy with him, because his ex and their child will always come before you and your children in EVERYBODY'S eyes but your own.
poland_
22 Aug 2013 #19
I wouldn't try that without expert legal advice and guidance. Courts do not deal kindly with selfish, greedy clowns trying to pull evasive shenannigans. Could backfire unless done exactly right.

Firstly it is impossible to do without a lawyer, as the lawyer will draft the contract. A separation of assets would be deemed normal in this case or any other case where risk is concerned, if you have no experience in this area its much better to keep schtum on the matter DomonicB.

The court will not even listen to anything having to do with to "emotional stress", especially to third parties like the OP and her children

It is apparent from the OP's concerns the matter is causing her stress, as a mother she must defend her position.

By far the wisest thing to do. Or at least not alienate then even more

Mediation should always be the first, many a Celtic warrior has gone to grave for the sake of pride.

She's still living with her parents and working in their shop, she has no intentions to leave this village. Her expenses hasnt increased significantly. I wasnt stupid to marry him or have a baby with him

calinbeag, it is not the responsibility of the grand parents to finance your husbands son the grand parents may be working for their retirement.

the child hasnt a clue and wasnt affected by it and she probably has told the child that my husband has never paid her..a few years back when my husband was talking on the phone to them she told the child not to call him dad but by is name..

The child must have been affected if he refuses to acknowledge or accept gifts on the day of his communion.

she expects alot from my husband

It sounds like she expects very little & he should accept he has had it very easy from her up until now. I suspect it was your wedding in Poland and the disrespect he showed her by using money as emotional blackmail.

Reading some of the stories on failed Pol/Foreign relationships on PF, I realize in most of cases it all comes down to cultural differences & lack of responsibility.
DominicB - | 2,709
22 Aug 2013 #20
i dont blame her about the 150zl but 1000zl is too much what we can afford...

If your husband is making minimum wage in Ireland, that 6,460.96 PLN a month. 1000 PLN a month doesn't seen unreasonable. He could always work a second job.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Aug 2013 #21
Seems very reasonable - what's that, roughly 15% of his income?

we just cant afford to pay for one child to have all the obscene luxuries she is demanding on the court letter ie dance, art, swimming classes..

Those aren't obscene luxuries in Poland, they're quite normal for many children.
bostonbill1982 - | 12
22 Aug 2013 #22
There has been an awful lot of mudslinging and nasty comments towards this poor woman.
I do agree that her husband should pay more than 150Z per month for his kid but as she said it was a temp measure.

At least the bloke is paying and has always paid something!!!! There's sh-tloads of blokes who pay nothing at all, like my sister's bloke, or just as bad my mate pays £450 a month for his 2 kids and his sl-g ex gives most of it to her alco boyfriend!!!

FFS the women is asking for advice not a lecture on her choice of husband!
The cost of living in Eire is very high compared to Poland and to the UK, they could be paying about 1000 Euros + just for rent.

The Polish ex wife got herself banged up, he did the right thing, he married her, the marriage broke up does it mean he has to be loveless for the rest of his life!!

According to my Polish missus and my in laws, getting money for kids is big business for lots of Polish birds, though maybe not this one in the post.

The Polish Ex has been pretty sh-tty in her behaviour too or a right 's-ka' as my wife said, she's not thinking about her kid's emotional health by her behaviour!

I can't believe what hypocrites some of you are, loads of men who ask for child support advice don't get such a load of crap thrown at them, or don't you think women can have a say!!

cailinbeag: Listen to what ''warszawski: '' is saying, according to my missus it's sound advice, if you could come to some compromise like 600Z which I know isn't going to be easy but wouldn't be impossible, should go some way way to appeasing the ex and hopefully she might start being reasonable about the lad.

Sounds like she's just jealous cos the two of you have got married.
See if you can get some advice from some Irish form of the CAB?
As for the ones slagging the OP off, try looking at her point of view instead of being all judgmental, you'd be singing a different song if it was you!
Lenka 3 | 2,875
22 Aug 2013 #23
Sorry but 150 zl is just laughable even if temporary. 350 is better but not too much. As I said- the 500- 600 is aproximately and I doubt any judge would make it less especially if he's getting 6000 there. The 1000 is not impossible.

It is not an attack on the OP but simple truth. And the mother of the first kid has the right not to give a s... about his problems and expect him to pay full ammount every month.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
22 Aug 2013 #24
try looking at her point of view

What, that she can't be bothered to work full time and expects a child in Poland to go without?
polforeigner
22 Aug 2013 #25
Sorry but 6,000 zl in Ireland (or in Western Europe) don't mean the same as in Poland. Having 6,000 zl in Western Europe is like having 2,000 in Poland,for instance. When comparing incomes, you guys need to compare the cost of living.
Lenka 3 | 2,875
22 Aug 2013 #26
True but the judge won't see it like that. what a judge will see is that 350 zl is not even a 100 ponds a month. Sorry but that sum is low and nothing will change that.
DominicB - | 2,709
22 Aug 2013 #27
this poor woman...

...knowingly brought all of her problems on herself all by herself. She has no one else to blame. Then she went and compounded the problem by having yet another child with him. I'm a sucker for hard luck stories, but this isn't one of those. If someone accidently falls into a vat of doodoo, I'd jump in and save them. If someone intentially jumps into a vat of doodoo, against all advice (and you can bet your bottom dollar that she recieved lots of advice not to marry this man in the first place), I'll just stand there and watch the flail around until they go under.

FFS the women is asking for advice

Stupidity is the most expensive hobby in the world. My advice is that she find a cheaper hobby.

My advice to her husband would be A LOT more caustic, and would certainly include castration.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,872
23 Aug 2013 #28
"this poor woman"
oh please this 'poor woman' wants her husband's child to live in poverty and considers him having normal kid stuff like swimming as 'obscene luxury'.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
23 Aug 2013 #29
Sorry but 6,000 zl in Ireland (or in Western Europe) don't mean the same as in Poland. Having 6,000 zl in Western Europe is like having 2,000 in Poland,for instance. When comparing incomes, you guys need to compare the cost of living.

It doesn't work like that. The non-resident parent paying roughly 15% of his income to support their child is normal in most countries.
Nile 1 | 154
23 Aug 2013 #30
I'm not an expert on Family Court and therefore I'm not able to help you, I'm not in position to help you. The only advice I can give you is do not listen to members posting in this thread as most of them are far cry from experts in family and children law.

knowingly brought all of her problems on herself all by herself

I don't know your circumstances or your background or nationality but you come across as a very nasty individual. cailinbeag seems to be a genuine person in distress asking for advice. There is no call for you to be so repulsive in your response.

I wouldn't **** in your mouth if your gums were on fire.


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