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Tell me about Collegium Civitas (Warsaw)!


AreYouOkay
31 Aug 2012 #1
I have read the official College information and even downloaded the nice looking PDF with the Rektor's face on it.

I am more curious about the popular opinion of the school in Poland (is it a multi-cultural waste of money?) (do graduates of their master's programs typically find steady work [are they "floating" from one job to the next]) (do employers like the fact that their applicants have this school on their CV?)

Any other personal opinions, stories, hearsays, etc?

Maybe I can bump this thread...

Anyone graduate from Collegium Civitas and is willing to share their opinion of the school, the faculty, the learning environment?

To any students attending this school--are you happy with the mileau, the teachers & curriculum?
RtR - | 5
23 May 2013 #2
I had a generally great experience at the school. Most of the professors are well versed in their field of study and there have been a number of improvements at the school in recent years. My M.A. advisor was particularly adept and I am particularly proud of the thesis that I wrote. Turns out that the foreign ambassador and highly respected professors who reviewed my thesis was so impressed by it that he gave me the first 5+ in his several decades of teaching at UW and other schools.

The faculty is supposedly better and friendlier than the faculty at any other school in Poland (there is no queuing from Monday just to get an appointment on Friday). I did see one issue, however, the faculty did admit several American students and Polish students that graduated from American high schools before returning to Poland and studying. Having an American high school diploma requires that you go through a pain-in-the-ass procedure known as nostrification. Attempting to deal with this in Poland is essentially an impossible task unless you have extreme determination to persuade state officials in the United States to bend the rules and provide you with a statement that says your diploma is recognized all throughout the United States and its possessions (legally, no state Board of Education can do this) since the BOE in Montana cannot tell the BOE in California to recognize its diplomas (it all comes down to whether or not your high school has accreditation from a reputable organization/agency.

Within the last two years, the school has upgraded its computer room, which used to populated by Windows 95 desktops (joking) to what I think are large, touchscreen computers. The library is small and its selection of English-language resources is particularly limited, but remember - this is a small school - it essentially encompasses two floors and has roughly a thousand or so students studying full time and on the weekends. But, the school has purchased access to a few online databases, so you should be able to have no issue finding plenty of scholarly articles. Professors will also leave copies or photocopies of books and other articles that are required for classes.

The curriculum could be improved, but generally, I felt it was fine given that the school is extremely small. My only major concern is that it seems Bogumiła Lisocka-Jaegermann recycles her syllabus every year and just changes the name of the class. I actually caught on to this and refused to take any additional courses by her based on this. I don't know if this actually changed or not, though. Several classes were demanding and I learned a great deal from the professors.

Ultimately, the worse part of the school was some of the other students. Many of them felt entitled to great grades despite not doing the work required and would argue with the professors. Others, would go out of their way to cheat on every single exam, much to my chagrin.

Now, I've found work after before and after graduating. Sometimes, the biggest issue is not the degree, but whether you have a karta pobytu or work permit (if you're not from the EU). But, Polish law helps out to some extent -- if you have a undergraduate or graduate degree from a Polish university, you no longer are required to have a work permit to work in Poland (but you still need to have a residency permit), which makes finding work for non-EU residents in Poland a lot easier.

Am I happy with Collegium Civitas? Ultimately, yes. It may have its downsides given that it has a small student body, but that means you can connect with some professors more. If you have the motivation to work, then, like at any college or university, its worth the money, especially considering that its relatively cheap (CC is less expensive for foreigners to attend than it is for them to attend the University of Warsaw).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
23 May 2013 #3
Turns out that the foreign ambassador and highly respected professors who reviewed my thesis was so impressed by it that he gave me the first 5+ in his several decades of teaching at UW and other schools.

So they told you. The truth is probably rather different.

The faculty is supposedly better and friendlier than the faculty at any other school in Poland.

This isn't quite correct. It is required that you have a statement that says that the diploma allows you to apply for university entry in the United States, not that it is recognised in the United States. Or you can get the statement from the Polish embassy in the United States, too.

Within the last two years, the school has upgraded its computer room, which used to populated by Windows 95 desktops (joking) to what I think are large, touchscreen computers.

Sounds pretty poor - proper universities have huge libraries in Poland. I'm familiar with the UAM library, and that must have well over 20,000 books available as well as many English language resources.

Ultimately, the worse part of the school was some of the other students. Many of them felt entitled to great grades despite not doing the work required and would argue with the professors. Others, would go out of their way to cheat on every single exam, much to my chagrin.

It's a private university in Poland. Cheating would be expected by both students and professors alike. Ten minutes research online would tell you this.

If you have the motivation to work, then, like at any college or university, its worth the money, especially considering that its relatively cheap (CC is less expensive for foreigners to attend than it is for them to attend the University of Warsaw).

And far less reputable. UW is one of the top 500 universities in the world - CC isn't.
RtR - | 5
23 May 2013 #4
delphiandomine, you seem bitter.

At any rate, you're wrong on most of your assumptions. Some are ridiculous so I will ignore those.

I doubt someone who spells recognize with a "s" would know what was required of American students. When my diploma was being nostrified, I was explicitly told by the office on Jerzolomiskie that it needed to be recognized throughout the States. You are correct (in this instance) that I neglect to mention the part where the statement must also permit you to go on to post-secondary studies.

I don't believe it is right to classify CC's library as poor. It's a smart business decision. Foreigners pay a fraction of the tuition that they would at UW and can use BUW resources by only purchasing a library card for a few zloty. Plus, anyone can also use books at the PISM library for free. So, I believe that it's a great decision not to duplicate resources that students can get cheaply elsewhere. Moreover, I received instruction from some UW and College of Europe - Natolin's best professors without dropping 5,000 EUR on tuition.

The cheating thing is universal. It is probably worse at public schools here and it's also present within the teaching staff at public institutions. My girlfriend recently purchssed three books by professor from UW only to learn that he plagarizes 80% of his own work in each of the books. So the fact that UW ranks somewhere in the top 500 holds no water for me, especially if you are referring to the Shanghai Rankings which have been criticized for the methodology employed.

My assessment still stands. For a school that is only 13 years old, has a small student body, and has done well enough by having students move on to even better schools (IU - Bloomington, for example), it is a good option.
Monitor 14 | 1,820
24 May 2013 #5
"So the fact that UW ranks somewhere in the top 500 holds no water for me, especially if you are referring to the Shanghai Rankings which have been criticized for the methodology employed."

UW is in top 500 of all 3 rankings and every ranking is criticized.

Sad truth is, that for many job positions in Poland graduates of private schools are not even invited for interviews.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
24 May 2013 #6
Sad truth is, that for many job positions in Poland graduates of private schools are not even invited for interviews.

I know of at least three big Polish companies that have a blanket policy on this - degree from a private university and your CV goes straight in the bin, unless you're being headhunted. The problems with grades being bought is so high in these universities that it simply doesn't make sense to trust them.

delphiandomine, you seem bitter.

No, truthful.

At any rate, you're wrong on most of your assumptions. Some are ridiculous so I will ignore those.

Oh, I'm certainly not. You bought a cheap education, nothing else.

I doubt someone who spells recognize with a "s" would know what was required of American students. When my diploma was being nostrified, I was explicitly told by the office on Jerzolomiskie that it needed to be recognized throughout the States. You are correct (in this instance) that I neglect to mention the part where the statement must also permit you to go on to post-secondary studies.

I suggest you read the relevant law on the nostrification process to find out exactly what it says.

As for the fact that I use an "s" rather than "z" is meaningless - why wouldn't I know about the nostrification process?

I don't believe it is right to classify CC's library as poor. It's a smart business decision. Foreigners pay a fraction of the tuition that they would at UW and can use BUW resources by only purchasing a library card for a few zloty. Plus, anyone can also use books at the PISM library for free. So, I believe that it's a great decision not to duplicate resources that students can get cheaply elsewhere. Moreover, I received instruction from some UW and College of Europe - Natolin's best professors without dropping 5,000 EUR on tuition.

A great decision? No, it's a dreadful decision and shows that it's a joke of an educational school. Quite normal for private schools, however.

As for receiving instruction from them - really, knowing quite a few people who teach in such universities, I imagine they had similar contempt for you. In Poland, it's not exactly a secret that these schools exist to provide papers for people that were simply too stupid to get into the real universities. No-one serious in Poland takes these schools seriously - the diplomas just aren't worth the paper that they're written on.

The cheating thing is universal. It is probably worse at public schools here and it's also present within the teaching staff at public institutions. My girlfriend recently purchssed three books by professor from UW only to learn that he plagarizes 80% of his own work in each of the books. So the fact that UW ranks somewhere in the top 500 holds no water for me, especially if you are referring to the Shanghai Rankings which have been criticized for the methodology employed.

It's irrelevant - the UW is well known in Poland and scores highly internationally. CC is...well...unheard of.

My assessment still stands. For a school that is only 13 years old, has a small student body, and has done well enough by having students move on to even better schools (IU - Bloomington, for example), it is a good option.

It is a good option if you want a worthless piece of paper that people in Poland will openly laugh at - yes.

It is a dreadful option for anyone that wants a reputable, serious education.
pioter 3 | 12
12 Jun 2013 #7
Merged: Study and review about Collegium Civitas in Warsaw

Hi everyone !!

I searched about few universities in Warsaw for good and budgetary studies and found number of private and public universities that offer good study programs and i decided to go with Collegium Civitas but as a part of my research to select the final university i would like that you guys living in Poland please help me to know if this university has good education standards and what are the reviews from the students of this college,

one more thing if you can help me with it, actually iam from India and will be applying for the student visa very soon after the admission procedure, so if anyone of you also has any experience with the polish student visa from any country but specially India so please write :)

Your suggestions and ideas will be very helpful for me and my future life.

Thank you everyone :)

Cheers
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
12 Jun 2013 #8
this university has good education standards

Hahaha. No.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
12 Jun 2013 #10
one more thing if you can help me with it, actually iam from India and will be applying for the student visa very soon after the admission procedure

It means you are looking for the perfect back door to the EU.
pioter 3 | 12
12 Jun 2013 #11
No its not that only asked the people out here if anyone has some good or bad experience about it
sobieski 107 | 2,128
12 Jun 2013 #12
For sure you could study in India or Singapore as well. Why is the Polish student visa so essential?
pioter 3 | 12
12 Jun 2013 #13
well i want to study in some European country and as much i know Poland is quite cheaper for study purpose and living as compare to the other countries in EU and beside its my choice and my decision to choose the country in Europe which i like that has other factors too as my few friends and cousins also traveled to Poland and had nice experience so that was the reason for me to choose Poland not rather Singapore or India,. and well my post here is not to decide the country because that i already decided

its just to know peoples experience and review about the university .. Thank you

cheers..!!
Monitor 14 | 1,820
13 Jun 2013 #14
Maybe it's not the worst university in Poland. But generally smarter students are in public universities here. And when it's about studying in Europe. Poland is new poor member of EU and Polish diploma in richer western countries is not worth more than a diploma from India. So If you plan to work in India later and you think that Polish education will be valuable there then it's OK, but If you want to work in the west then it's not the best idea. (As for Poland we have very little jobs for foreigners, except if you intend to study IT)
pioter 3 | 12
13 Jun 2013 #15
Thank you so much for the information .. but i was wondering that in the rankings why collegium is given the 1st or the 2nd position if their study and diploma status is not so good for international students, and for international students i checked private universities are coming out to be more affordable to study than any public university which offers less study in English

I might be wrong also .,..

Thanks Cheers,,,!!
Monitor 14 | 1,820
13 Jun 2013 #16
That's true that private universities are more savy for money from foreign students. Public have public founding, so don't need foreigners as long as can attract enough locals.

This Collegium Civitas is only in top of rankings which are excluding all public universities. And there is many public schools in Poland.

Here is some general ranking top 50 of all kind colleges/universities, by prospect of getting job in Poland by graduates:
szkoly.wprost.pl (no C Civitas there)

Here another one by salaries of graduates:

For the tenth time we have the pleasure to present to you a summary of the National Research Compensation ( MC ) . In 2012, attended by over one hundred thousand people ( 114 718 ), which makes it the largest non-governmental study of wages in Poland . Present you as accurate data on earnings of Poles was made possible through collaboration with leading Polish Internet portals : pracuj.pl , interia.pl , gazetapraca.pl , wp.pl.

As every year, we recall that in our study is dominated by young people ( 64.9 % have no more than 35 years ) and those with higher education ( 75.0 %). This makes our respondents take more specialized positions, and their salaries are higher than those of other people. The main advantage of such a group structure is that with much greater accuracy from other sources as we can give shape to pay for most of the specialist positions. It should also be noted that, compared to traditional studies of wage OBW contains data from employees with over 20 000 companies . It is also the only commercial survey including data on wages for each province and most of the districts. In addition, the only information we have on wages for 567 positions.


(they haven't bother to check salaries of private schools graduates)

And in the end all this rankings matters only in Poland, because in the west maybe somebody has heard about Uniwersytet Warszawski or Uniwersytet Jagiellonski, but probably nothing else and the reputation of country is rather low.

So I don't say that you will have bad experience with Collegium Civitas, only that it's not elitist school.
pioter 3 | 12
14 Jun 2013 #17
Thank you so much for all such great information and these links for rankings.. it is very useful for me i just thought that if i can change my university maybe to lazarski or Vistula in Warsaw

.. for changing country iam not sure as i like Poland and i was in Warsaw before so i know much about the city and culture and liked it too.. only i have to decide that where to start good education in affordable fees for international students in Warsaw.

what do you think Lazarski or Vistula would be better than collegium in all aspects

I planned for going in B.A in management in these universities but i doubt that lazarski dont provide this study in English i dont know they have not proper information given on the website.
Warszawette - | 128
14 Jun 2013 #18
Hi! I taught at Civitas for a school year some years ago and I can tell that students there are not "intellectuals" and not from the "elite", basically middle-class kids not able to go to university.

As to Vistula, I know a teacher working there now. All I can say is that it's a school belonging to a wealthy Turkish guy so a lot of Turkish students.

In any case, all those schools in Poland have a much lower level than (public) universities and their diplomas are worth very little in Poland (employers are not impressed) and nothing in the west.

In short, a waste of money! Better to attend a good school with a good reputation and which opens doors everywhere.
pioter 3 | 12
14 Jun 2013 #19
ohh ohh Realy? vistula is full of Turkish students oh oh.. anyways but why is such a big difference in private university diploma and public university diploma in Poland.. employers will not consider the skills..talent or score of the student who search job after finishing study??

Or

they will only look and consider at the diploma from university ?

A lot of students from all over the world are now coming to Poland for studies even Poland is becoming the new study hub in Europe so why still their is not so much importance given to the degrees earn by the students in Poland or lets say specially from private universities such as vistula..collegium or lazarski

Its a sad thing for students who graduated from polish universities
sobieski 107 | 2,128
14 Jun 2013 #20
Poland is becoming the new study hub in Europe

Because they see this as the ideal backdoor to the EU and to Schengen. That is why.
Warszawette - | 128
15 Jun 2013 #21
Agree 100% with Sobieski. I would say 99.98% of those 3rd world "students" are "interested" in Poland because they see it as a cheap way to enter the UE. They need to realize that their Polish diplomas shall be worth nothing and that they won't be able to live and work in western UE. It's unbelievable all those suddenly "interested" in Poland ;).

To the author of the post (sorry, I don't remember your name): all those schools you mentioned are considered close to jokes in Poland. In Poland, those not able to go to universities and who want to keep studying, go to those mickey-mouse schools who are not universities. Of course, their internet pages are great since they need your money.

If you are serious about your studies, stay in India or since you speak English, go to England, the USA where they have real universities. Yes, in England and in the USA, it's very expensive and if you don't have that kind of money, I'm sure in India you have proper schools.
jon357 67 | 17,059
15 Jun 2013 #22
Agree 100% with Sobieski. I would say 99.98% of those 3rd world "students" are "interested" in Poland because they see it as a cheap way to enter the UE. They need to realize that their Polish diplomas shall be worth nothing and that they won't be able to live and work in western UE. It's unbelievable all those suddenly "interested" in Poland ;).

Or perhaps they're just seizing a chance to get on in life. A chance that someone in the developing world does not get easily. One of my staff from Iraq is coming to Warsaw to complete his PhD. He could have chosen other countries, whether in the EU or not. He chose Poland because the cost of the programme is affordable and because the university in question is respected.
pioter 3 | 12
15 Jun 2013 #23
its really sad to hear all of this guys... a lot of international students are studying now in Poland specially from Asia is mostly Chinese and Indians who are present in Poland for their studies , but i really don't understand why all of this is happening in witch Poland if the students are studying, having knowledge, experience , talent and skills still they don't get jobs in Poland just because of what university they choose for study.. or even no importance is given to the universities .
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
15 Jun 2013 #24
still they don't get jobs in Poland

Dude, hardly anybody get jobs in Poland these days.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
15 Jun 2013 #25
mostly Chinese and Indians who are present in Poland for their studies

They also could study in China or India....
pioter 3 | 12
15 Jun 2013 #26
@grzegorz - yes i understand but you see in the present time and present economy this cases are same for all countries now people are struggling to get jobs in their home country and just trying to move and keep search for jobs in other countries people are rushing to UK or USA and ending up with working still in markets or some BPO companies after their good education. so maybe its the same case in the present time for all countries, even in India now more of the people are moving abroad for education and jobs: as education standards here are not so good as compare to other countries and India is still full with corruptions.. sad :(
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 Jun 2013 #27
Dude, hardly anybody get jobs in Poland these days.

Oh dear Greggy. There are plenty of jobs in Poland for those who chose to get off their ass and do something about it. I know you miss the glory days when everyone had a job, but really.

Because they see this as the ideal backdoor to the EU and to Schengen. That is why.

Pretty much. Roll up on a student visa, sell kebabs, hopefully meet naive Polish girl, get married, move to West. Voila.

It's an investment, and one reason that I believe there should be minimum tuition fees in the EU as a whole for non-EU students.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
15 Jun 2013 #28
Oh dear Greggy.

edit, the difference between us is that I am getting +300 CVs per entry level job offer, you are a foreigner teaching English here. I will let others decide who's more in touch with reality.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 Jun 2013 #29
I'm sure you are. Just like you never voted PiS.

For what it's worth, I find that one problem in Poland is that people will send their CV for jobs that they are completely unqualified to do "in the off chance". Your number of 300+ CV's should be considered in that most of them are probably totally unqualified to do the job to start with.
researchers 4 | 19
15 Jun 2013 #30
Wow.. is it all really true?
even i traveled in many countries in Europe and Asia and let me let you the truth that everyone right now in the world is facing this same problem with jobs.. people are loosing their jobs.. or earning less wages for the work or some people are just siting at home and keep applying for numbers of job vacancies every hour

That is the reality now.. So i don't think Poland is doing something different from the World.


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