Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49%

Poland is quite different from the UK, UK has an older population who will want to trade down over time. Poland population die younger. It also sufferers from emigration not immigration. In Poland much of the older generation seems to have been given housing which they now own and there fore have savings to invest and assets to borrow against. You are also right that Poland, more than most other countries needs more stock.

However, these are longer (medium?) term trends, for now prices are not going up. The world banking crisis/Great Depression II is more of an influence.


Look at the trend on the chart yourself, its down everywhere, there is no debate on that.

In that case I do wonder what the hell are people debating here : )

People can slow down the deflation by arguing against the tide, in order to sell off their growing surplus,quite obvious, actually.

The "tide" of "one" ?, thats made my day.

Don't be ridiculous, nobody changes their mind after reading this sort of crap one way or another. Property prices are predictable, they go up and down consistently over long time periods, when they stop falling or rising, you will know.

Its not like the stock market which is governed by a galloping herd with the IQ of a peanut.


The tide is falling prices, so he is right.

That is not what he meant. He is insinuating that I am a lone voice against an overwhelmimg majority who think that property prices are crashing down and that there is a "bubble" in Poland, he also thinks that I am trying to talk up the market so that I can offload excess properties that I do not have. He is wrong as usual.

You really need to keep up.

Er that was me and my name's not Mark !

Borrowing set to become more expensive for firms in Poland

WBJ
3rd November 2011

Companies looking to borrow money in Poland could soon see “another 2009,” when credit was expensive and banks were reluctant to lend, Citi Handlowy CEO Sławomir Sikora told Puls Biznesu.

According to Mr Sikora, companies have to keep in mind that in the coming months, banks may be reluctant to give them loans, mainly because of a lack of liquidity in the market and because of rising risk.

Both factors will make borrowing for companies more expensive. Moreover, the same will also apply to loans taken by the government.

“It will become increasingly harder to obtain financing and the bonds market will be practically closed,” Mr Sikora said.

In Which case, what is being built at the moment may be the last for some time. But, how long can the banks survive on clients monthy fees for their accounts?

For ever, they can just jack it up as its a captive market.

Sorry if it's been discussed here but a friend of mine told last week or 2 weeks ago that there is talk of a 10% property tax coming into effect in Poland.

If your property is valued at 200K then you'd have an annual 20K tax to pay. Is this for real? Has anyone else heard about this? Is this really old news that I'm way behind on?

This is not possible.

People will only put up with it for so long. Look what happened in the States when the banks tried to charge $5 for using an ATM machine, they have just this week "backtracked" and removed this charge.

In the UK, banks are trying to have a monthly account charge as in Poland and people are threatening to close their accounts. They were going to do away with cheques and now they have relented on this. I think you can only push people so far.

Why is it not possible? For instance, spain has a wealth tax, you pay a percentage of your worldwide holdings. In the US you pay about 2.5% in Florida (Highest rate is 4% in New Hampshire) per year on the value of the property. Similar in Canada, I believe.


secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wealth_tax#Property_tax

10% is impossible though, I doubt anyone in Poland could afford that.

Canada has high property taxes. I don't mine paying them when it supports schools, curb side garbage and recycling pick up (that is huge in my books) and many other things.

How high?

In the UK I pay £550 per year on a flat worth £300k, which covers all of that including Police and fire brigade.

The infrastructure in those 2 countries are very different due to population dispersal and geography confines and extents...apples to oranges imo.
That may account for a difference in property taxation

mind you, I come from a city in Canada that has one of the highest property taxes- but all of the major cities are similar.

about 5,000 Canadian dollars per year- so that is about 3,000 pounds per year. but this would be an average based on a single family home.

the garbage is a big deal.
there is curbside garbage pick up and recycling paper products in one bin, metals, glasses and plastics in another bin and now there is compost collection.

That won't happen though, there's too much competition in Poland. For instance - you've now got Multibank/mBank, Credit Agricole, Deutsche Bank, PKO, Pekao, Santander, Millenium, ING and a hell of a lot more fighting it out - they simply can't afford to increase fees.

Thats cheap compared to US,a house that now is devalued at 750k,was once 1.1 during peak one has to pay 26500$ a year

Thats a nasty tax. I would prefer to pay income tax, anyday.

Not a chance - there are far, far, far too many PO voters who stretched themselves financially to buy a nice house/flat - they wouldn't be able to afford 10% a year. Not to mention the vast amount of older/retired people who own their property (and which is now worth a good bit of cash - plenty of babcias in 300-400k flats) - but who wouldn't be able to afford direct property taxation.

Just not going to happen - Poland has no culture of it and it's unlikely to happen.

I could see taxes being increased on high end property being purchased, however. I'm still mad about the 2% I had to pay...

And you don't think they talk to each other ?

Clearly you know nothing about Poland if you think the banking sector is in any way a cartel.

Right now, it's a bloodbath in Polish retail banking. Credit Agricole are spending a fortune on advertising, WBK spend a hell of a lot, the list goes on.

O WELL!thats what is in New jersey though,and forget commercial real estate,lately the towns revaluated the properties at the peak times and taxed it accordingly and one has to get a lawyer to appeal to bring it down,being a commercial one cant represent without a lawyer but still they raise it 40%,not a good state to be in:(

but maybe they will eventually talk.
Unless there is a significant drop in prices,taxes like this will add flesh to the renting argument.

Yes Mark, renting is such a good idea: because after 20 to 30 years you have nothing; while if you buy, after 10 to 30 years you have a valuable asset. I wish I had carried on renting instead of buying my own flat.

Surely you mean "community charge", are you getting confused again?


And you don't think that a tax such as this would be "added" to rents?

Seems like the "mail" agrees with you.

Many people may never achieve their dream, with one expert saying renting is 'the new normal'.
To make matters worse, it has never been more expensive to rent, with an average cost of £718 a month, and more than £1,000 in London.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057381/Millions-NEVER-home-House-buying-dreams-dashed-mortgages-dry-up.html

Not possible with that rate. It would mean that almost every houshold would pay at least those 20K which is far more than current income tax. Effectively it would mean multiplication of current income tax. Beside the fact that there is absolutely no need for that it sounds absolutely crazy.

Anyway, property tax already exists, but it is not state tax but local gov. tax. Maximum rate of it is set in state law (if wiki don't lie currenty max is 0,62 PLN / 1 m^2).

It is up to the city council you live in if you pay max of it or less.

The question is if foreigner4 friend was talking about tax in his city or in Poland...

PS. wiki lied, in 2010 max was 0,67 PLN/1m^2. And it was rate in Warsaw or Gdansk. In Wroclaw city decided to set property tax at 0,54 PLN/1 m^2.

Oh, important, I was posting about flats. For land this rate is different...

Harry . So you still think I'm that American?????? and 20-30 years ago ahahah, I was a little too young to purchase when I was around 5.

Is this me Harry???

poland-claritaslux/blog/real-estate-poland/

Work hard so you can earn decent money and you can pay for your flat in under ten years: I did.

But of course one has to work hard and have a skill of value to sell, so that's you out on two counts.