The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Real Estate  % width posts: 285

Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49%


OP peterweg 37 | 2,321
31 Oct 2011 #91
Poland has a population which is 2/3rds that of the UK, but, it has a much older/poorer quality, housing stock. Whilst I disagree with Paxman on much of the artical, his comments on housing and affordability are unfortunately, very truthful.

Poland is quite different from the UK, UK has an older population who will want to trade down over time. Poland population die younger. It also sufferers from emigration not immigration. In Poland much of the older generation seems to have been given housing which they now own and there fore have savings to invest and assets to borrow against. You are also right that Poland, more than most other countries needs more stock.

However, these are longer (medium?) term trends, for now prices are not going up. The world banking crisis/Great Depression II is more of an influence.

^ "since 2007?" That seems to confuse the issue more than anything if the talk is about the trend this year...

Look at the trend on the chart yourself, its down everywhere, there is no debate on that.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
31 Oct 2011 #92
Look at the trend on the chart yourself, its down everywhere, there is no debate on that.

In that case I do wonder what the hell are people debating here : )
milky 13 | 1,657
31 Oct 2011 #93
People can slow down the deflation by arguing against the tide, in order to sell off their growing surplus,quite obvious, actually.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
31 Oct 2011 #94
by arguing against the tide,

The "tide" of "one" ?, thats made my day.
OP peterweg 37 | 2,321
31 Oct 2011 #95
People can slow down the deflation by arguing against the tide, in order to sell off their growing surplus,quite obvious, actually.

Don't be ridiculous, nobody changes their mind after reading this sort of crap one way or another. Property prices are predictable, they go up and down consistently over long time periods, when they stop falling or rising, you will know.

Its not like the stock market which is governed by a galloping herd with the IQ of a peanut.

The "tide" of "one" ?, thats made my day.

The tide is falling prices, so he is right.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
31 Oct 2011 #96
The tide is falling prices, so he is right.

That is not what he meant. He is insinuating that I am a lone voice against an overwhelmimg majority who think that property prices are crashing down and that there is a "bubble" in Poland, he also thinks that I am trying to talk up the market so that I can offload excess properties that I do not have. He is wrong as usual.

You really need to keep up.
cms 9 | 1,271
2 Nov 2011 #97
Quite right Mark, now that we have finally got you to commit to a firm percentage fall by a firm date. I can hardly wait for next October

Er that was me and my name's not Mark !
Avalon 4 | 1,068
4 Nov 2011 #98
Borrowing set to become more expensive for firms in Poland

WBJ
3rd November 2011

Companies looking to borrow money in Poland could soon see “another 2009,” when credit was expensive and banks were reluctant to lend, Citi Handlowy CEO SÅ‚awomir Sikora told Puls Biznesu.

According to Mr Sikora, companies have to keep in mind that in the coming months, banks may be reluctant to give them loans, mainly because of a lack of liquidity in the market and because of rising risk.

Both factors will make borrowing for companies more expensive. Moreover, the same will also apply to loans taken by the government.

“It will become increasingly harder to obtain financing and the bonds market will be practically closed,” Mr Sikora said.

In Which case, what is being built at the moment may be the last for some time. But, how long can the banks survive on clients monthy fees for their accounts?
OP peterweg 37 | 2,321
4 Nov 2011 #99
In Which case, what is being built at the moment may be the last for some time. But, how long can the banks survive on clients monthy fees for their accounts?

For ever, they can just jack it up as its a captive market.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
4 Nov 2011 #100
Sorry if it's been discussed here but a friend of mine told last week or 2 weeks ago that there is talk of a 10% property tax coming into effect in Poland.

If your property is valued at 200K then you'd have an annual 20K tax to pay. Is this for real? Has anyone else heard about this? Is this really old news that I'm way behind on?
milky 13 | 1,657
4 Nov 2011 #101
If your property is valued at 200K then you'd have an annual 20K tax to pay. Is this for real? Has anyone else heard about this? Is this really old news that I'm way behind on?

This is not possible.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
4 Nov 2011 #102
For ever, they can just jack it up as its a captive market.

People will only put up with it for so long. Look what happened in the States when the banks tried to charge $5 for using an ATM machine, they have just this week "backtracked" and removed this charge.

In the UK, banks are trying to have a monthly account charge as in Poland and people are threatening to close their accounts. They were going to do away with cheques and now they have relented on this. I think you can only push people so far.
OP peterweg 37 | 2,321
4 Nov 2011 #103
This is not possible.

Why is it not possible? For instance, spain has a wealth tax, you pay a percentage of your worldwide holdings. In the US you pay about 2.5% in Florida (Highest rate is 4% in New Hampshire) per year on the value of the property. Similar in Canada, I believe.

Existing net wealth/worth taxes

France: A progressive rate from 0 to 1.8% of net assets. In 2006 out of €287 billion "general government" receipts, €3.68 billion was collected as wealth tax. See Solidarity tax on wealth.
Switzerland: A progressive wealth tax with a maximum of around 1.5% may be levied on net assets.[2] The exact amount varies between cantons.
Liechtenstein
Netherlands: Interest income is taxed like a wealth tax, i.e. a fixed 30% out of an assumed yield of 4% is a rate of 1.2%. See Income tax in the Netherlands.
Norway: Up to 0.7% (municipal) and 0.4% (national) a total of 1,1% levied on net assets exceeding NOK. 700,000.
India: Wealth tax is 1% on wealth exceeding Rs 30,00,000. However, non-residents returning to India are given exemption for seven years.

secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wealth_tax#Property_tax

10% is impossible though, I doubt anyone in Poland could afford that.
pip 10 | 1,661
4 Nov 2011 #104
Similar in Canada, I believe.

Canada has high property taxes. I don't mine paying them when it supports schools, curb side garbage and recycling pick up (that is huge in my books) and many other things.
OP peterweg 37 | 2,321
4 Nov 2011 #105
Canada has high property taxes.

How high?

In the UK I pay £550 per year on a flat worth £300k, which covers all of that including Police and fire brigade.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
4 Nov 2011 #106
The infrastructure in those 2 countries are very different due to population dispersal and geography confines and extents...apples to oranges imo.
That may account for a difference in property taxation
pip 10 | 1,661
4 Nov 2011 #107
How high?

In the UK I pay £550 per year on a flat worth £300k, which covers all of that including Police and fire brigade.

mind you, I come from a city in Canada that has one of the highest property taxes- but all of the major cities are similar.

about 5,000 Canadian dollars per year- so that is about 3,000 pounds per year. but this would be an average based on a single family home.

the garbage is a big deal.
there is curbside garbage pick up and recycling paper products in one bin, metals, glasses and plastics in another bin and now there is compost collection.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
4 Nov 2011 #108
For ever, they can just jack it up as its a captive market.

That won't happen though, there's too much competition in Poland. For instance - you've now got Multibank/mBank, Credit Agricole, Deutsche Bank, PKO, Pekao, Santander, Millenium, ING and a hell of a lot more fighting it out - they simply can't afford to increase fees.
Knee Grow
4 Nov 2011 #109
In the UK I pay £550 per year on a flat worth £300k

Thats cheap compared to US,a house that now is devalued at 750k,was once 1.1 during peak one has to pay 26500$ a year
OP peterweg 37 | 2,321
4 Nov 2011 #110
Thats a nasty tax. I would prefer to pay income tax, anyday.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
4 Nov 2011 #111
Sorry if it's been discussed here but a friend of mine told last week or 2 weeks ago that there is talk of a 10% property tax coming into effect in Poland.

Not a chance - there are far, far, far too many PO voters who stretched themselves financially to buy a nice house/flat - they wouldn't be able to afford 10% a year. Not to mention the vast amount of older/retired people who own their property (and which is now worth a good bit of cash - plenty of babcias in 300-400k flats) - but who wouldn't be able to afford direct property taxation.

Just not going to happen - Poland has no culture of it and it's unlikely to happen.

I could see taxes being increased on high end property being purchased, however. I'm still mad about the 2% I had to pay...
Ant63 11 | 403
4 Nov 2011 #112
That won't happen though, there's too much competition in Poland. For instance - you've now got Multibank/mBank, Credit Agricole, Deutsche Bank, PKO, Pekao, Santander, Millenium, ING and a hell of a lot more fighting it out - they simply can't afford to increase fees.

And you don't think they talk to each other ?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
4 Nov 2011 #113
Clearly you know nothing about Poland if you think the banking sector is in any way a cartel.

Right now, it's a bloodbath in Polish retail banking. Credit Agricole are spending a fortune on advertising, WBK spend a hell of a lot, the list goes on.
Knee Grow
4 Nov 2011 #114
Thats a nasty tax. I would prefer to pay income tax, anyday

O WELL!thats what is in New jersey though,and forget commercial real estate,lately the towns revaluated the properties at the peak times and taxed it accordingly and one has to get a lawyer to appeal to bring it down,being a commercial one cant represent without a lawyer but still they raise it 40%,not a good state to be in:(
milky 13 | 1,657
4 Nov 2011 #115
it's a bloodbath in Polish retail banking.

but maybe they will eventually talk.
Unless there is a significant drop in prices,taxes like this will add flesh to the renting argument.
PWEI 3 | 612
4 Nov 2011 #116
the renting argument.

Yes Mark, renting is such a good idea: because after 20 to 30 years you have nothing; while if you buy, after 10 to 30 years you have a valuable asset. I wish I had carried on renting instead of buying my own flat.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
4 Nov 2011 #117
Thats a nasty tax. I would prefer to pay income tax, anyday.

Surely you mean "community charge", are you getting confused again?

Unless there is a significant drop in prices,taxes like this will add flesh to the renting argument.

And you don't think that a tax such as this would be "added" to rents?

Seems like the "mail" agrees with you.

Many people may never achieve their dream, with one expert saying renting is 'the new normal'.
To make matters worse, it has never been more expensive to rent, with an average cost of £718 a month, and more than £1,000 in London.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057381/Millions-NEVER-home-House-buying-dreams-dashed-mortgages-dry-up.html
jwojcie 2 | 763
4 Nov 2011 #118
Sorry if it's been discussed here but a friend of mine told last week or 2 weeks ago that there is talk of a 10% property tax coming into effect in Poland.
If your property is valued at 200K then you'd have an annual 20K tax to pay. Is this for real? Has anyone else heard about this? Is this really old news that I'm way behind on?

Why is it not possible?

Not possible with that rate. It would mean that almost every houshold would pay at least those 20K which is far more than current income tax. Effectively it would mean multiplication of current income tax. Beside the fact that there is absolutely no need for that it sounds absolutely crazy.

Anyway, property tax already exists, but it is not state tax but local gov. tax. Maximum rate of it is set in state law (if wiki don't lie currenty max is 0,62 PLN / 1 m^2).

It is up to the city council you live in if you pay max of it or less.

The question is if foreigner4 friend was talking about tax in his city or in Poland...

PS. wiki lied, in 2010 max was 0,67 PLN/1m^2. And it was rate in Warsaw or Gdansk. In Wroclaw city decided to set property tax at 0,54 PLN/1 m^2.

Oh, important, I was posting about flats. For land this rate is different...
milky 13 | 1,657
4 Nov 2011 #119
Yes Mark, renting is such a good idea: because after 20 to 30 years you have nothing; while if you buy, after 10 to 30 years you have a valuable asset. I wish I had carried on renting instead of buying my own flat.

Harry . So you still think I'm that American?????? and 20-30 years ago ahahah, I was a little too young to purchase when I was around 5.

Is this me Harry???

poland-claritaslux/blog/real-estate-poland/
PWEI 3 | 612
4 Nov 2011 #120
and 20-30 years ago ahahah, I was a little too young to purchase when I was around 5.

Work hard so you can earn decent money and you can pay for your flat in under ten years: I did.

But of course one has to work hard and have a skill of value to sell, so that's you out on two counts.


Home / Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49%
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.