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Poland's apartment prices continue to fall


Harry
24 Jun 2011  #91
Mark, you might want to consider which is more 'free market': helping people buy their own home on the free market or giving them a home free of charge.

The most 'free market' thing to do would be to let them starve in the streets. Support that do you?
milky 13 | 1,657
24 Jun 2011  #92
Well you are the Thatcher supporter so.............
Government spending on social housing was very low between 2002-06 in Eire, then in 2007 just before the real estate bubble burst, mysteriously, local governments all over the country(especially in Galway/Dublin) exploded into a buying spree of Social housing. All the government had to do was wait, a matter of months/days and the prices would have collapsed, but no. Government interference and brown envelopes had to prevail. Was the 300% increase in spending on Social housing to benefit the majority?

like wise in Poland with the scam grants''

Foreigners abandon Polish property market

ft.com/cms/s/0/364edd54-1769-11e0-badd-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1S0ijAhPv
Avalon 4 | 1,068
13 Jul 2011  #93
milky

Foreigners abandon Polish property market

This is one foreigner that is not abandoning that is not abandoning it.
Just had a nice 10 days in the South of France, tanned, fit and raring to get the next project started.
How is life with you Mark?, still happy and optimistic I see.
I take it you do not qualify for the "first family scheme"?
milky 13 | 1,657
13 Jul 2011  #94
How is life with you Mark?,

mistake in identity...
I'm not an American or the American you speak of.
I hope you enjoyed France.

krakow-info/flats.htm article says....

"Since 2008 prices of flats have mostly remained stagnant in Krakow but they are certain to race upwards again sooner or later. "

They are "certain to race upwards.........

Certain. LOL sad thing is, people will still fall for sweeping(b0llsh1t) statements like this.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
15 Jul 2011  #95
milky

"Since 2008 prices of flats have mostly remained stagnant in Krakow but they are certain to race upwards again sooner or later. "

So your prediction of a 60% price crash has not happened then?
milky 13 | 1,657
15 Jul 2011  #96
certain to race upwards again sooner or later. "

This is not to do with me, it is about the use of the word "certain',
the author is certain about what he says. I wonder, just how CERTAIN he really his?
CERTAIN

So your prediction of a 60% price crash has not happened then?

no the market is stagnant,time will tell. Im not 'certain'.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017817/Poles-sending-home-3bn-year--pay-4-5m-week-benefits.html

Polish workers in Britain have sent home £23billion in the past seven years, an official report revealed last night.

Amounting to more than £3billion a year,

So what fueled the property bubble in Poland?? Polish wages??
Harry
26 Jul 2011  #97
Still haven't learned the meaning of the word 'bubble' then Mark.
pip 10 | 1,661
26 Jul 2011  #98
ok- so it isn't just me that found his post didn't make sense.
milky 13 | 1,657
26 Jul 2011  #99
explain your mis-understanding, and I will try and clarify.
pip 10 | 1,661
26 Jul 2011  #100
how about we start with your definition of a "bubble"--not from wikipedia please. And then decide where you think Poland is in this bubble.
milky 13 | 1,657
26 Jul 2011  #101
ok- so it isn't just me that found his post didn't make sense.

how about we start with your definition of a "bubble"--not from wikipedia please. And then decide where you think Poland is in this bubble.

Ohhhhh OK, so you did understand my statement, you just disagree.
Wikapedia is fine for me, this is my opinion as well so..........
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_bubble
Avalon 4 | 1,068
26 Jul 2011  #102
The lady asked you a question, where in Poland is the property bubble?

The link you posted states that a property bubble is followed by house prices crashing, where has this happened?, we are not just talking about the luxury end of the market because the link also states :

The arguments for further real estate prices rise or stabilization are:

fast increase of salaries - around 8% per year;
low figures of both housing estate area and apartments per person, compared to other developed countries worldwide;
money repatriated by Poles who have emigrated;
rapid urbanization - the population of rural areas and small towns is declining rapidly, while the population of major urban areas is increasing quickly;
Warsaw has a population of only 2 million people - approximately 5% of the whole of the country - very low for a capital city.

No wonder the lady is confused by your posts.
milky 13 | 1,657
26 Jul 2011  #103
The lady asked you a question, where in Poland is the property bubble?

Did she??
The part between Germany and Russia..

where has this happened?,

When will this happen ? you mean..
Stagnation period atm...

I was jus making the point that;
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017817/Poles-sending-home-3bn

Polish workers in Britain have sent home £23billion in the past seven years, an official report revealed last night.

Amounting to more than £3billion a year,

So what fueled the property bubble in Poland?? Polish wages??

No wonder the lady is confused by your posts.

no she's not. £23billion in the past seven years, from just GB,,,,lol
Avalon 4 | 1,068
26 Jul 2011  #104
Did she??
The part between Germany and Russia..
where has this happened

No specifics/facts as usual. Stagnation is not a crash, which is what you have been predicting for years.
If the Poles in the UK are sending back 3 billion a year it means that they are not buying property and intend to return, hence the need for new housing.

For Poles to receive benefit after they have paid tax and NI contributions is fair. To pay benefits to people who have not paid into the system is stupid so blame the UK government, if someone was giving away free money would you not take it?

You never seem to refer to any positive news, today in the Warsaw Business Journal, there is an article which states that Poland's deficit will be 25% Less for this year due to improved inflow of taxes which means that people and business's are earning more. This does not sound like a country in trouble to me. I am not saying that things may get worse in the future, the Global economy is looking dire and this may have a "knock on" effect in Poland, but, it has not happened yet.
SeanBM 35 | 5,809
26 Jul 2011  #105
Lets take a look at real figures instead of opinions.

Median price per sqm. in April 2008 (At peak).

- Gdańsk 6119 zł
- Kraków 6423 zł
- Poznań 6490 zł
- Warszawa 8571 zł
- Wrocław 6626 zł

Open Finance
open.pl/news/ceny_mieszkan_mala_niespodzianka.html

And here we are for May 2011:

- Gdańsk 5718 zł
- Kraków 6385 zł
- Poznań 5690 zł
- Warszawa 7844 zł
- Wrocław 6005 zł

Again Open Finance
open.pl/news/mieszkania_przybywa_transakcji_ale_ceny_sa_stabilne.html

Remember ladies and jellybeans, this is from peak, you can find on Open Finance's website that prices have stabilized since the peak.
pip 10 | 1,661
27 Jul 2011  #106
so these minor changes- where is the bubble?
jwojcie 2 | 763
27 Jul 2011  #107
Mark, you might want to consider which is more 'free market': helping people buy their own home on the free market or giving them a home free of charge.

The most 'free market' thing to do would be to let them starve in the streets. Support that do you?

Harry the problem with mortgages from "Rodzina na swoim" is that usually bank commission on such mortgage was higher than on 'free market' mortgage. This program is maybe in theory noble but in reality it is nothing more than artificial floor for property prices. This program started when property market in Poland was in shambles, it should be stopped long time ago.

PS, I'm not in property bust camp, but prices are falling - don't forget about inflation. Even if price of flat is not moving the price is dropping...
wielki pan 2 | 250
28 Jul 2011  #108
yes of course. I have lost so much money in Polish real estate, that money invested in Banks give better return.. The problem I had with renting properties was that payment was not on time and the damage to my properties.. there is no capital property growth in Poland..
grubas 12 | 1,392
28 Jul 2011  #109
So what fueled the property bubble in Poland?? Polish wages??

Foraign speculators.Time to kick them all out.Polska dla Polaków!
OP peterweg 36 | 2,315
28 Jul 2011  #110
Foraign speculators.Time to kick them all out.

Leave the EU, try get a vote on that and I suspect you will be told to **** right off.
SeanBM 35 | 5,809
28 Jul 2011  #111
Leave the EU

He already has.
He's in the U.S.
pip 10 | 1,661
28 Jul 2011  #112
Polska dla Polaków!

so pathetic. than perhaps you should return to Poland and contribute instead of just words on a forum.
milky 13 | 1,657
28 Jul 2011  #113
Polska dla Polaków!

Maybe, 'Polish property prices based on Polish wages' would be a more realistic slogan.
pip 10 | 1,661
28 Jul 2011  #114
I didn't see any Polish builders lowering their prices so that the consumer can save a few zlots. They are just as greedy as any foreign investor.
PWEI 3 | 612
28 Jul 2011  #115
'Polish property prices based on Polish wages'

So who is buying all the apartments that have flown up all over the place? Who if not Poles? I certainly haven't seen hoards of foreigners here.
f stop 25 | 2,514
28 Jul 2011  #116
Last time I looked, the foreign investors are still flocking to Poland.
cms 9 | 1,287
28 Jul 2011  #117
er nobody - there is oversupply at the moment hence the falling prices. Its also part of the reason lots of Poles still live in extended family units - because they can not afford a flat or at least can not get credit now the banks have started to be more strict about salary ratios in their mortgage applications.

I think a few years ago I predicted a 40% drop by 2012 - so we are not at that level - above drops are 13% or so, but there is a still a year to go so lets see who ends up correct. Certainly would consider property an unwise investment in Poland at the moment.
f stop 25 | 2,514
28 Jul 2011  #118
Certainly would consider property an unwise investment in Poland at the moment.

It's all relative... what would be a wise investment?
cms 9 | 1,287
28 Jul 2011  #119
One that gave you real growth in your income and did not involve lots of transaction charges and currency risks.

Polish govt bonds are as good as any at the moment. Or German if you are worried about PO's deficits. Or German stocks or hundreds of other things I would choose before Polish property.

If you want to live there then fine but with price to rent ratios what they are you would need to live there 20-25 years to pay it off (comparing the cost of a PLN 300k apartment to say 1500 per month rent).
DAMIEN123 2 | 18
28 Jul 2011  #120
cms
If you want to live there then fine but with price to rent ratios what they are you would need to live there 20-25 years to pay it off (comparing the cost of a PLN 300k apartment to say 1500 per month rent).

takes just as long or longer in uk


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