Four people is a large family? A strange statement even by your standards.
I read yesterday that there are over 50.000 unsold apartments in the main 6 cities. Also banks refusing mortgages unless couples have a joint income of 8000 zloty, net a month.
For the second time as asking: source please. Or should we just conclude that you're making things up?
Warsaw stats and comparison - article extracts below:
Global housing market downturn gathering pace Tuesday 28 February 2012The world’s housing downturn is gathering momentum, according to the latest world-wide survey of house price indices prepared by the Global Property Guide. During 2011, house prices fell in 22 countries, of the 35 countries for which Q4 house price statistics are available, and rose in only 13 countries. Similarly, 21 housing markets performed worse during 2011 than last year, while only 14 countries performed better.
The figures for the 4th quarter of 2011 are somewhat worrying, with quarterly price rises in only 10 countries, but price falls in 25 countries. On the other hand, the apparent trend towards recovery in the US is positive.
The Global Property Guide’s statistical presentation uses price-changes after inflation, giving a more realistic picture than the more upbeat nominal figures usually preferred by real estate agents.
European housing markets still heading down Most countries whose housing markets experienced accelerated downturns in 2011 are located in Europe, including Finland (-2.22% down in 2011), United Kingdom (-3.39%), Sweden (-5.29%), Netherlands (-5.77%), Slovak Republic (-6.88%), Portugal (-7.78%), Spain (-9.27%), Athens, Greece (-10.43%), and Warsaw, Poland (-10.55%).
Unhappy Ireland still holds the title of ‘world’s weakest housing market’, with house prices plummeting by 18.08% in 2011. With low transactions, constrained mortgage lending, and an uncertain economic environment, Irish house prices are likely to continue falling in 2012.
However, several European countries actually enjoyed house price rises in 2011. The highest house price climb in Europe was in Tallinn, Estonia, whose property market has been recovering since the second half of 2010. Over the past twelve months, house prices in Tallinn rose 8.36%.
Housing markets in the Ukraine and Iceland finally bounced back in the final quarter of 2011. In Kiev, apartment prices climbed by 5.29% (in nominal terms) from a year earlier, after falling 9.47% the previous year. Likewise, house prices in Iceland rose 1.84% year-on-year, after falling 4.18% the previous year.
good question, I went to the source and it seems what they quoted for Warsaw is actually for Poland, by city info below. I'd recommend checking the website for the full article (not that you can trust any data anywhere - I doubt the country data they use is even comparable) - globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Poland/Price-History
Yet Poland's housing market was Europe's second-worst performer in 2011, down by 10.55% in inflation-adjusted terms. Prices fell less in major cities, but the downturn is significant: · In Warsaw, the average price of "exposed units" (i.e. used units) fell 6.6% in 2011 (6.97% in real terms), according to REAS. · Krakow used dwelling prices fell 5.53% (5.90% in real terms). · Poznan used dwelling prices fell 4.57% (4.95% in real terms). · Lodtz used dwelling prices fell 5.46% (5.83% in real terms). · Tri-City used dwelling prices fell 3.44% (3.82% in real terms). · Wroclaw used dwelling prices fell 8.39% (8.75% in real terms). Compared to pre-crisis peaks: · House prices in Warsaw are down by 13.63% (13.53% in real terms). · In Krakow, house prices are down by 11.80% (13.2% in real terms). · In Lodz, prices have fallen by 17.87.% (17.67% in real terms). · In Tri-City, house prices plunged by 25.22% (26.62% in real terms). · In Wroclaw, house prices are down by 31.91% (31.81% in real terms). · In Poznan, property prices plummeted by 44.08% (44.18% in real terms).
If they had fallen 44%, I'd be straight to the bank to ask for another mortgage as the prices would be laughably low given that the average wage here is now well over 4000zl/month.
Prices have fallen in Poznan by around 10% or so since the peak. Entirely expected, and given the continued sharp climb in wages, nothing out of the ordinary.
Like I said - you can't trust any data anywhere - at best it is not comparable apartments (ie. more lower standard/smaller apartments are being sold).
Some more data from the news today for those who like data
Apartments losing value Not all real estate markets in Europe have bounced back from the financial crisis - and the Polish one belongs to them. Apartments have become cheaper since the 2007 housing bubble. Taking into account inflation, average value has fallen by a quarter, according to professor Michael Ball from Reading University in Great Britain. According to his newest report, "2012 RICS European Housing Review," it appears in Ireland prices have fallen by more than 50% and in Great Britain and Hungary, by more than 30%.
In cities such as Lodz, Katowice, Bydgoszcz and Gorzow Wielkopolski apartments can be bought used for less than three thousand. zł per square meter. This price does not mean a bad standard, but a worse location, and usually a larger area - underline analysts.
In smaller towns, flats, especially in the secondary market, prices are relatively competitive. The data service Ofert.net that, in Lodz, the lowest bid per square meter of your home are 2.8 thousand. zł, 2.7 thousand in Katowice. zł per sq. m is even cheaper in Bydgoszcz , where the lowest asking prices of flats on the other hand are 2.6 thousand. zł per sq. m, and Gorzów these prices fluctuate around two thousand. zł died sq Drogomirecki Martin, principal analyst Oferty.net service, ensures that the cheapest bid is contrary to appearances, they are not vandalized properties in the ruined buildings.
- These are usually properties in quite good condition. Their low prices due to the fact that this was worse than central locations - Drogomirecki said. The second factor that influences the price reduction per square meter, is, according to analyst area. The relationship is such that the flat surface is higher, the price per square meter lower. apartments cheaper because wages are low According to Jaroslaw leap, a representative office in the agency Emmerson, low housing prices in cities such as Lodz , Katowice , whether due to Gorzow that in these markets is at a standstill. - There is a lack of purchasing power in these cities because people earn much less than in urban areas such as Warsaw - said Skoczeń. He added that all these local factors compounded the crisis which has affected the housing market even in large cities and small is often felt even more.
My mom just sold her old flat for just 4.1 k zl/sqm and bought a bigger one for similar pm cost. And that's in Kielce - I really don't know where are those flats for 2.8 k zl/sqm, not in Kielce...
For most, property as an investment, turns out to be, merely a hedge against inflation. If property prices stay neutral for 50, 20 or even 1 or 2 years, then in real terms it has actually gone down.
The longer prices are stagnant, the more drastic the fall in real terms.
For most, property as an investment, turns out to be, merely a hedge against inflation.
Property is a very good hedge against inflation over the long term. No matter waht people can/will pay a large part - and stable in real terms - of their wage towards somewhere to live; if they can work while living there.
Short term, under seven years it can be a good or bad. As long as you can wait 'seven years' to sell it will be fine..
In which case they are misguided to pay the current bubble prices. You could comfortably rent a place for 25 years for the same amount of money as is being asked in some towns.
Mind you big falls in prices in January in some towns, Wroclaw and lodz especially. Plenty of sources. Reas , oferty.pl,
The 44 percent falls noted in that article are possible as it was referring to euro amounts in the full report. Add a 20 percent zloty fall to a 20 percent currency effect.
In which case they are misguided to pay the current bubble prices. You could comfortably rent a place for 25 years for the same amount of money as is being asked in some towns.
So you rent a place for 25 years, then what? You have what exactly?
Still waiting for you to demonstrate that Poland has or had a property bubble.
he 44 percent falls noted in that article are possible as it was referring to euro amounts in the full report. Add a 20 percent zloty fall to a 20 percent currency effect.
A 20% fall is due to the fall in the zloty? That must mean that prices in Warsaw are actually up by 7% in zloty terms (as the article claims they are down by 13.63%).
Harry, you cannot educate pork. The people that use these stats are of the same mindset as those at EU headquarters who are trying to convince the markets that Greece will not go bust and the euro is a sound currency. They do not deal in facts only numbers they can manipulate.
So you rent a place for 25 years, then what? You have what exactly?
Over the span of years 2002-2008 real estate prices in Poland have increased drastically. Between June 2006 and June 2007 alone the average price of a square metre in Warsaw rose from 6,683 PLN (1,636 EUR) to 9,540 PLN (2,519 EUR) (over 50% rise in euro terms).[1]
According to a major Polish newspaper, Gazeta Wyborcza, the average monthly salary in Warsaw buys 0.26 m2, or in Kraków 0.22 m2.[2]
Same sources give rental profitability at 4% yearly. This is lower than interest rates on bank deposits (5% in Polbank etc.).[2]
stagnation of prices and dramatic drop of sales in a long period of time with dynamically increasing supply of residential properties.
