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Buying land to build on near Czestochowa


anti_brexit 1 | 1
2 Oct 2017 #1
Hello all!

My first post, please forgive me if this has been answered before - I have genuinely spent the last hour searching the internet to no avail.

The situation:

- I plan to buy land, to later build a house, in a small town near Czestochowa.
- So far my girlfriend and her family have been a great help in dealing with all the research.
- Now we're getting into the serious negotiations.
- A price has been agreed.
- The land and the owner check out with the Land and Mortgage agency, no issues there.
- The land is certified dzialki budowlana :)
- We have a notary already (a family member).

There are two issues:

1) The notary is stating that I will need to hire an official translator for all the legal proceedings. I'm not qualified to say otherwise, and my aforementioned searches have not proven/disproved this. However... My girlfriend (who is a 3rd year law student, studying in the UK) speaks, understands and writes perfect English - I might even say, better than I do! So I planned to use her to translate all the documents etc. This is also an unplanned cost - to be honest the cost is £500 or less more than budgeted, so I'm not that bothered - however the issue is, I just dont believe this is correct.

2) I'm being told I cannot sell the land for 10 years after purchase, as a small part of the total land is classified as 'RZK' (Farmland and place of natural beauty). Is this correct?

Can someone help?

Thanks in advance.
terri 1 | 1,627
2 Oct 2017 #2
Just some minor points.
1. When someone official suggest translating documents for you, they actually mean for the documents to be translated by a sworn translator, not your girlfriend (who, might not be with you in 2 years time). If there is a dispute EVER, you will not be able to take her to court and recover damages.

2. You will be extremely lucky to even think that you can purchase and sell land that is classified as 'place of natural beauty'.
3. You have to make sure that you can get a WZ (ask your girlfriend what that is) - otherwise you will never be able to build anything.

4. I would be very wary of buying land - you have to make sure that the supposed 'owner' is the only one that has or will ever have a claim on this land. The land may be owned by other family members. Do check and do not take his word for it.
spiritus 67 | 664
3 Oct 2017 #3
Just out of interest-which part ?

My mothers comes from Czestochowa
Roger5 1 | 1,458
3 Oct 2017 #4
a sworn translator

And you should always check that the translation is accurate. Translators in Poland have improved a lot in the last ten years, but there are plenty of bad ones around. When I was a partner in a language school and we needed sworn translations we'd do it ourselves and then get a sworn translator to just stamp and sign the document.
OP anti_brexit 1 | 1
3 Oct 2017 #5
Hi Guys,

Thanks for your responses.

@Terri,

1. Yeah my own research kind of led to the 'sworn translator' but thank you.
2. Well, its all cleared. The land registry confirms the status, the owner, no outstanding mortgage etc. No problems with the sale. The classification is 'RZK' which is both Farmland (R for Rolna) and ZK which is, I dont know the exact Polish words, but translates to something similar to place of natural beauty. There are regulations, very strict regulations at that, that govern what you can and can't do with it.

3. Land has the permit for building. Checked with the notary beforehand all good here.
4. As in 2, the owner is legit and checks out.

@Spiritus, near Zamek Olsztyn.

@Roger5, thank you!
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,402
4 Oct 2017 #6
@anti_brexit

Be super super super careful when buying land in Poland. There many crooked unethical people in this industry that have screwed over foreigners - both people who are from another country as well as Poles who have lived abroad and returned to buy property. I'd highly recommend hiring a lawyer to help you and checking every step of the process, redundantly documenting everything, and basically just make sure you're totally covered from all aspects. I've heard quite a few horror stories of people getting screwed over and losing tons of money due to unethical agents, title companies, etc. Just be very very careful. It sounds like you're doing your research though so you're off to a good start - keep it up! You'll love Czestochowa - it's a very well known town in PL and very pretty.

I'm being told I cannot sell the land for 10 years after purchase, as a small part of the total land is classified as 'RZK' (Farmland and place of natural beauty). Is this correct?

To my understanding, yes that is accurate as the land I own in Poland too is classed as agricultura.
terri 1 | 1,627
4 Oct 2017 #7
I know this is a bit off, but have you considered the cost of buying the land (and associated costs) and then building a house as against buying a pre-owned or a new house that is already built. Polish workmen/builders have now increased their rates so much, that you have to at least double if not triple the estimate that you have for building the house. It is an absolutely lovely dream to have something that you have designed and built - but it will cost you untold nerves (if not a nervous breakdown), money (that will just disappear through your hands) and in the end you may end up with something that cost more than you can sell it for. I assume that you have ready cash for the building and do not need a mortgage or a loan.

Also there are new rules about 'agricultural land' - be extra careful here, as recently the Government only wanted legit farmers to buy this type of land.
terri 1 | 1,627
4 Oct 2017 #8
One very important thing - please have documented evidence of ALL your sources of income or savings. The tax office may ask where you got the money to buy the land and to build a house. They are now vigorously chasing people for 20% income tax where they suspect that family members or others have 'loaned' or 'given' any money to someone who has not declared this 'loan' or 'gift' to the authorities and who is 'spending' money from undocumented sources.
OwCr 3 | 15
4 Oct 2017 #9
@spiritus

I visited Czestochowa last week to meet up with my friend who lives there, and he took me out on a bike ride around a forest area just south of Zamek Olsztyn (I think it's between that and a place called Biskupice) ... he was telling me that the areas that have been logged (i.e. trees cut down) would eventually become land to buy and build homes on ... so I assume this is the place the OP is on about?

Very natural and beautiful place. Czestochowa is also a very nice town ... I've been there a few times now.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,402
4 Oct 2017 #10
@terri

Agricultural land owners get a lot of privileges in Poland including social benefits and insurance aside from the common ZUS. Idk how it works with OP as idk if he's a pl citizen or not and also if residents are able to take advantage of it. I use to have an apple orchard i used primarily for personal consumption. Id mostly make it into apple wine and give away the remainder of apples for free mainly to local people. Its delicious it tastes like a sweet apple juice. Most of my neighbors thought I was crazy and insisted there's no such thing as apple wine till they tried it and loved it lol. I still have the property but all the trees and land got destroyed thanks to some ******** who decided it was easier to dump rubble from a job site on someone's yard than go to a proper site. I did find out the rubble is rich in minerals that can be used to turn into concrete. I've been duking this situation out in the courts now for a year n a half. I believe in karma those guys will get what's coming to them.

The op will definetrly love czestochowa. Building a house from ground up generally is more costly than buying but atleast you can customize your home the way you want. If this is in fact agricultural land and you're a citizen (idk if its the same for residents but you can find out) take advantage of the side benefits of being a rolnik like the insurance.
Niklas - | 10
4 Oct 2017 #11
As far as I remember who does not hold permit to settle is not allowed buy a house.I do not know about buying a land and build a house how it works.

- If you aren't a farmer, you won't be allowed to buy land.

If you would like to be a farmer you have to graduate from agriculture university so that means also he is not allowed to get any grants or social benefits.
spiritus 67 | 664
4 Oct 2017 #12
@OwCr

I have some very good friends here in the UK who were born in Olsztyn. I have been there a few times and to the castle too. There's quite a few limestone castle ruins in that area. Biskupice sounds familiar....
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,402
4 Oct 2017 #13
If you would like to be a farmer you have to graduate from agriculture university so that means also he is not allowed to get any grants or social benefits.

Is that a new thing? I never went to agricultural uni nor did anyone in my family and we were able to take advantage of those programs for rolniki. This was years and years ago though it may have changed since.

Also it sounds like only a small part of the land is considered agricultural. I personally have never seen land classed as two different things (one part residential/commercial/etc one part agricultural) although that doesn't mean it doesn't occur.
terri 1 | 1,627
4 Oct 2017 #14
Something else to consider before building a house is this:
In order to obtain permission to put up a building/house you have to have your plans passed by the local council that is gmina or urzad. This means that they will have to comply with building regulations, so in effect you may NOT get the house exactly the way you want it, as they can change the position of certain items. Also whilst going through the process of actually building anything you have to keep a log of the work done, each part of which then has to be approved by the building inspector who will put his signature to the work already completed. You have to factor his costs in the costings.

As to the areas that had the trees logged - there is some talk that the land cannot be sold on for some time.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,402
24 Dec 2017 #15
I cannot sell the land for 10 years after purchase

Yes


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