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Work in Denmark? Do you want it? A versatile builder who can speak English needed.



EsbjergDK    
19 Jan 2017  #1

I maybe have an opening for an employee to get a job in Esbjerg, Denmark. It needs to be a versatile builder who can speak English.

How much do you in Poland get in pay normally?

The job contains work with concrete, renovation apartments so general building.
It needs to be done right of course.
Pay will depend on job qualifications


Lyzko 17 | 3,676    
19 Jan 2017  #2

May I assume then that the reason for English knowledge is that your firm does considerable work with the UK or the States? I would think that a Pole with at least working knowledge of Danish would be preferable:-)

It may even increase your market share, as a Pole who speaks FLUENT Danish, not only English, German etc., is far more unusual to find than a Pole who has at least a working knowledge of English only!
NoToForeigners 7 | 858    
19 Jan 2017  #3

@Lyzko
Or maybe just maybe he knows that English is way easier than both Danish and Polish and he already knows that Poles often do speak English?

That way he has much higher chance to find a Polish worker he can communicate with than when looking for a Danish speaking Pole?
Lyzko 17 | 3,676    
19 Jan 2017  #4

Statistically, accurate enough surmise on your part.

My experience though, both in Denmark as a visitor/student as well as briefly in Poland, is that an English-speaking Pole trying to communicate with an English-speaking Dane (of which there are MANY!!) might well be an attempt in need of an interpreter in both languages in order to intercede on account of the expected misscommunication between the two speakersLOL

In business/industry, Danes usually pride themselves on a high degree of English fluency. The same cannot necessarily be said on average for the Poles.

In addition, I speak Danish and if a Pole can eventually master English, he or she can almost certainly just as easily master basic Danish:-)
OP EsbjergDK    
20 Jan 2017  #5

It would be preferable to get labor speaking danish. But it is not an ultimatum.

I currently work a little with a polish fellow and we communicate in English without problems.

This company is a small company so the person will have to work on his own at some times and get instructions from me about it.

I would offcause just need some more information about how much a builder normaly gets paid in Poland, and what he might expect in wage in denmark?
US trucker    
20 Jan 2017  #6

"how much a builder normaly gets paid in Poland"
How does it matter?You not going to hire him in Poland, are you?
"what he might expect in wage in denmark?"
How about danish wage?
Ziemowit 8 | 2,637    
20 Jan 2017  #7

n addition, I speak Danish

Wow!
OP EsbjergDK    
20 Jan 2017  #8

I'm interested to know as it gives some background knowledge.

He will be paid in Denmark yes, and ofcause we are also interested to know how much a Polish builder will expect in wage in Denmark.

This is all to get wiser on the pros and cons of hireing a builder from abroad. So this is the basis we need to know to deside either to hire a Polish guy or just hire Danish labor eventhough that is more expensive.
Marsupial - | 924    
20 Jan 2017  #9

Normal business question.
Ziemowit 8 | 2,637    
20 Jan 2017  #10

we are also interested to know how much a Polish builder will expect in wage in Denmark.

Definitely more than in Poland, but definitely less than a native Danish speaker would claim, I should think.
US trucker    
20 Jan 2017  #11

"Definitely more than in Poland, but definitely less than a native Danish speaker would claim, I should think."
Why? I drive 18 wheelers in the US.I am not native Amglish speaker as I am from Poland yet I get paid the same money US born drivers with the same level of experience get.So why should Polish worker in Danmark make less than a Dane?
DominicB - | 2,412    
20 Jan 2017  #12

So why should Polish worker in Danmark make less than a Dane?

Why, indeed? I can see no valid reason to pay someone less just because they are a foreigner, all other things being equal as far as productivity is concerned,.
Ziemowit 8 | 2,637    
20 Jan 2017  #13

So why should Polish worker in Danmark make less than a Dane?

Why, indeed? I can see no valid reason to pay someone less just because they are a foreigner,

Indeed, so why did the OP ask this question if it is so obvious what he should pay a foreigner?
But wait, the OP has explained it already:

we need to know to deside either to hire a Polish guy or just hire Danish labor even though that is more expensive

Lyzko 17 | 3,676    
20 Jan 2017  #14

@Ziemowit, it's much more transparent for an Anglophone than Polish, believe me:-) I still use it professionally for both teaching and translation!

@esbjergDK,

From a purely business point of view, I can well understand the desire for a Polish worker wishing to up his lot and move to Denmark, but I somehow can't imagine the reverseLOL

Danish salaries are competitive within the EU, and even non-EU nations I'm sure pay more than Poland.
NoToForeigners 7 | 858    
20 Jan 2017  #15

Definitely more than in Poland, but definitely less than a native Danish speaker would claim, I should think.

I worked for 10 years in the UK and if any employer told me to work for less than a Brit I'd laugh in his face.
Lyzko 17 | 3,676    
20 Jan 2017  #16

Depends on the job you were doing.
NoToForeigners 7 | 858    
20 Jan 2017  #17

Nope. If it's **** job Poles get what Brits get. Brits not really wanting to do that kind of job is different thing.
Atch 13 | 1,845    
20 Jan 2017  #18

hire a Polish guy or just hire Danish labor eventhough that is more expensive.

There is no justification for paying a Polish worker less than a Danish one if that worker has equal skills. That kind of attitude, viewing Poles as cheap labour, has to stop. Polish people deserve to be treated with respect as equal Europeans.

if any employer told me to work for less than a Brit I'd laugh in his face.

Maybe you would but plenty didn't. Many, many Polish people worked for less than their British peers in the first wave of immigration from Poland.
Lyzko 17 | 3,676    
20 Jan 2017  #19

In principle, Atch, I can only agree. The next hurdle to overcome then is to pay WOMEN of any stripe or nationality etc.. equal pay for equal work, European or not!!

:-)

Of the two nations, Poland and Denmark, the latter so far surpasses most of the Continent in the latter regard it's not even funny.

Heck, they had Europe's first female chief of parliament round about 1910 or so, Nina Bang.
after2020    
21 Jan 2017  #20

Ebsjerg DK, The way it works in Poland with a builder is either a flat rate for job done or paid per part/piece, so you would ask him how much he charges for an electrical point or hanging a door or tiling per sqm. If you bring in a Polish worker, first rule no alcohol on the job or turning up to work stinking of booze. Builders in Poland operate on 1/3 product cost/1/3 labour cost/ / 1/3 profit. Do not employ him/her in Denmark. You can hire him from Poland as a consultant worker. All you will need to do is make sure his company is registered for VAT. Make sure your company insurance policy covers consultant EU workers in Denmark for medical etc. You already have a Polish worker you work with, would it not be easier to get a referral through him. As for a good builder, I would say if he earns the equivalent of 10,000 zlotys net per month and accommodation/food. You should have a loyal worker. You will also have to make sure he is free on all Religious holidays to return back to Poland. I have employed many Polish workers here in Poland and abroad. If the person is good and you have a solid working relationship, its worth paying more to buy loyalty.
after2020    
21 Jan 2017  #21

Atch - NO, you both remind me of the Polish FIP-TUK ( failed in Poland try UK) The only Poles which go to the UK are the ones that cant make it in Poland, with the exception of the men/women which marry out or Polish students studying in the UK.. In the UK you receive equal opportunities not available to you in Poland, London created the template for equal opportunities for the world to follow. Now if we would like to discuss discrimination in the workplace or questionable ethics of Polish HR. One has to look no further than the practice of Polish companies not advertising salaries and asking recruits what salary they are prepared to work for. What the OP is doing is no different to 99% of Polish employers.
Atch 13 | 1,845    
23 Jan 2017  #22

Atch - NO

You sound like Angry Frank (Harry Enfield).

The only Poles which go to the UK

cant make it in Poland

Polish students studying in the UK.

That's a very sweeping and very inaccurate statement.
According to the government statistics from the 2011 Census, amongst foreign nationals in the UK 'Polish-born (8.6%) and South African-born (11%) recent arrivals had the lowest proportions of students'. Therefore by your reasoning the majority of Poles in the UK (since such a very small number are students), are the ones who couldn't make it in Poland.

However Poles in the UK are the second most highly educated/qualified group of foreign nationals and Polish born UK residents have the second highest number employed in highly skilled occupations and professional roles.

London created the template

Why London specifically and not England?? Yes the UK is a great place but unfortunately the concept of equal opportunities has also lead to a 'dumbing down' and lowering of overall standards. The quality of graduates from third level colleges is often woeful. Too many very average people going to second rate universities studying pointless degrees in useless subjects.

questionable ethics of Polish HR

Polish employers are generally the pits, agreed, and working conditions, pay etc for the Polish labour force whilst much improved still lag way behind. But that's not the issue on this thread.

What the OP is doing is no different to 99% of Polish employers.

Yes it is. And here's how. Polish employers are exploiting their own because that's the state of Polish society at this point in their history. However, here we have a Danish company specifically seeking a Polish worker because they feel they can pay them less than a Dane. What it would equate to is a Polish company seeking a Mongolian worker with basic Polish, because they have the skills to do the job but they'll be cheaper. That's what it would be 'no different to'.
after2020    
23 Jan 2017  #23

Itch, I am really not interested in a UK consensus from 2011 or numbers of Poles. The numbers of Polish migrants in any ' numbers' statistic in the UK will be higher as they are the largest minority group in the UK. Now as for Polish students finishing higher education studying outside of Poland. In Poland there has been a significant growth of schools offering the IB program since 2010, 90% of graduates from IB will study outside of Poland with the exception of the ones who wish to study Polish law or economics. From a year off 55 IB students in Warsaw which my eldest was in, only 6 of them went on to studies in Warsaw. Now we will go onto Polish kids in boarding schools in the UK, in the last six years parents have become disillusioned by the International schools in Poland and have started sending their kids to board primarily in the UK. Fees for a top end private school in Poland are equal to a good public school in the UK. Your assumption that there are small numbers of Polish students in the UK is wrong. Polish students are EU therefore you must compare against other EU nations. London is an oasis in itself, it has the highest concentration of Russell group Universities. As a parent of two, both educated in Poland now studying in the UK, LSE and St Andrews, believe me I know a little about the options, availability and opportunities of the Polish education system. Furthermore in respect of pay working condition and conditions in the Polish workplace it is exactly the issue, as this is the information the OP was intending to ascertain.. Once again your assumption is all wrong with your Mongolian theory. The very point of freedom of movement within the EU is for EU residents to have the option to offer their services in any of the EU 28. This thread has been started by a Danish small business owner who is doing research in order to build a profile of what are the pay conditions in Poland for a builder - Its called market research. The poor chap has been made out to an exploiter of Poles in Denmark, which is just bull**it. This forum is full of people who would pay someone black or try to negotiate for work done on their home. Yet the liberal lefties would have you believe they are cleaner than white. I am not angry, the double standards of lefties , on one hand you want to save the world, on the other you are trying to screw down service providers in the UK or your domestic suppliers.. make me gag.
Atch 13 | 1,845    
23 Jan 2017  #24

a UK consensus

The figures are from the official UK Census, not 'a consensus'.

Your assumption that there are small numbers of Polish students in the UK is wrong.

That's not an assumption. That's a statistic and it refers to third level studies.

90% of graduates from IB will study outside of Poland

Source? - other than assumption based on personal experience, because if you can provide evidence other than ancedotal, that's a very interesting stat.

This thread has been started by a Danish small business owner who is doing research in order to build a profile

No. It was started to advertise a job. The very title of the thread is 'Work in Denmark. Do you want it?' He then goes on to state quite clearly that he may have an opening for someone suitable.

The very point of freedom of movement within the EU is for EU residents to have the option to offer their services in any of the EU 28.

We're not talking about a resident offering their services. It's about an EU employer seeking someone to perform services. Quite a different matter. Obviously if I go to another EU country seeking work, I will be offering my services and it's my decision as to what salary I will accept. However, it would make a nonsense of each country's labour laws if they changed them according to which nationality they're employing. I don't think the idea of freedom of movement is that an EU employer will pay different salaries to their work force determined by their nationality. By your reasoning French, Polish, German, Dutch, doing the same job in the same company in Denmark, would be paid no more than the equivalent of their local salary at home?

The poor chap has been made out to an exploiter of Poles

I don't think he's an exploiter of Poles. He may be a very nice, decent guy and a good employer. His attitude simply reflects the fact that people still expect to get Poles cheaper than locals. Why seek a Pole otherwise? According to your own theory, only those Poles who can't succeed in Poland go abroad, so why would another EU employer be actively seeking inferior candidates who don't even speak the local language. He's looking for a Pole because they have a reputation for being reasonably skilled and hard working and many of them now speak enough English to manage in their job and he thinks they'll take lower pay because it will still be better than they'd earn in Poland. That was certainly the case ten years ago, but far less so now. Doesn't mean that the man is a monster, just that he's following an accepted business model which is becoming a bit out-dated.

the liberal lefties

you want

Liberal lefty? Lefty dear,who dear, me dear, no dear. How VERY dare you? Can't abide all that Arts Council grants for black, lesbian, midgets type of nonsense.
after2020    
23 Jan 2017  #25

Contact ibo.org yourself and get the figures for Poland my guesstimate would be its grown at least 100% year on year for the last 5/6 years. Every IB student must be registered at ibo.org. I don't need to justify my claim of 90% IBO going abroad. Why else would a Polish native study in English unless their intention was to go to an English speaking university. The cost per year of studying IB at an international school in Poland is on par with a UK public and the work input is far greater than Matura or A levels.. As for the number of Polish EU studying in the UK, I believe contacting UCAS would give you an accurate figure of Poles v other EU nationals in UK universities. There are Polish contractors taking Poles to the UK on 0 hour contracts its been going on for years. Now they are bringing welders and engineers from India and ME as there is a surplus of contract workers due to the recession in ME. As for Mr DK, he has most likely worked out having workers on fixed contracts, is like taking on extra children.
Atch 13 | 1,845    
23 Jan 2017  #26

I don't need to justify my claim of 90% IBO going abroad.

You do if it's merely an opinion and not a fact.

Why else would a Polish native study in English unless their intention was to go to an English speaking university.

Well the socio-economic group pursuing the IB route would be attracted to it for its social prestige. You're also talking about a very small number of native Polish studying the IB. Most Polish teenagers attend a regular state school. The American School in Warsaw for example has nearly a thousand students, but of fifty different nationalities. However I turned up something very interesting:

liberties.eu/en/news/ib-is-a-limitation-for-applicants-to-polish-universities
"On the one hand, the IB diploma is considered equal to Polish Matura in the recruitment process at universities, but on the other hand, IB graduates' access to Polish universities is limited," said Katarzyna Wiśniewska a lawyer at the HFHR.

That could account for why so many pursue their third level studies outside of Poland, they have little choice in the matter.

The problem with access to Polish third level, following IB, in my view is two-fold. Firstly Poland remains very slow to respond to societal change and introduce the necessary reforms. It's simply not good enough that Poland still struggles to integrate itself fully into the EU education system after so many years membership of the EU. Some universities still don't even operate the ECT system. Secondly Poland remains pig ignorant when it comes to understanding equivalency and realizing the high standard of non-Polish qualifications.

As for the number of Polish EU studying in the UK,

Ok, here are the figures for 2015/2016 from the HESA:
Of the top ten EU nations sending students to the UK, Poland comes last with 5,655 up from 5,200 in 2013/14, Germany comes first with 13,425. Strangely enough Romania, which is far from affluent and has a population half the size of Poland sent over 7,000 students to the UK in the same year.
Lyzko 17 | 3,676    
23 Jan 2017  #27

After2020,

Are the single standards of righties any more preferrable? No, you're not angry (LOL), merely missinformed! In German, "After" means "anus" and this is where many of your ideas appear to have originated...and remain:-)
after2020    
23 Jan 2017  #28

Atch, from the knowledge I have of the IB, most IB students in both my daughters year, which decided to stay in Poland for studies entered the law department at UW or the Economics department at SGH. Also take into consideration Polish student which opt for the Scottish route avail of paid university fees for the MA which is a four year program. English students in Scotland must pay full fees. Over the last few years up popped companies offering packages to students east, Russia. Belarus and Ukraine. I am not sure how true the information is, I have been informed that over 30% of Warsaw students now originate from Russian speaking countries. As for Katarzyna Wiśniewska comments there must be some truth, once a Polish child has gone through the IB, they are lacking technical Polish terms in Economics and maths etc, so written Polish will not be as advanced as someone who has completed Matura. As you have preciously mentioned there are more and more Poles from Poland being placed on international postings especially in CEE. If someone goes off on a four year post and takes their child/ren, fees paid for schooling its kinda tough to get back into the local system, without being put back a year. Back on topic as for Mr DK, hopefully he receives the information he is searching for.
after2020    
23 Jan 2017  #29

Lyzko, if you have nothing to say, best not to say anything. Be careful hanging on the Atch's skirt you may get dizzy at those heights... I would be interested to hear what your post 27 has to do with -Work in Denmark? Do you want it? A versatile builder who can speak English needed Mug...
Lyzko 17 | 3,676    
23 Jan 2017  #30

I was only asking questions, after2020, nothing more:-)




Home / Polonia / Work in Denmark? Do you want it? A versatile builder who can speak English needed.
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