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Warsaw's silent march in support of 5th Commandment - Thou shalt not kill


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Nov 2015 #1
A silent march under the slogan "Fifth Commandment - Thou shalt not kill" wended its way acorss Warsaw's right-bank Praga district in protest against an exceptionally brutal killing of a woman and her two childen. Police have arrested 32-year-old Magdalena M., who stabbed to death the current live-in lover of her former boyfriend, stole some valuables and set the flat ablaze in an attempt to destroy the evidence. The victim's two children aged 2 and 8 died of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Opponents of domestic violence should bear in mind that most cases involve shack-up households rather than married couples (ask any policeman!). That's yet another reason why informal liaisons should not be encourged or glamourised.
Harry
8 Nov 2015 #2
Opponents of domestic violence should bear in mind that most cases involve shack-up households rather than married couples

Why do you post such utter rubbish here? Three tragic deaths, you react by posting yet more of the vitriolic lies and hatred that fill your every waking moment. That's sickening.

Would you care to post some sources to support your laughable claim, or shall we just file it alongside your famous invisible attack dogs and microchipped babies?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
8 Nov 2015 #3
Why do you post such utter rubbish here? Three tragic deaths, you react by posting yet more of the vitriolic lies and hatred that fill your every waking moment. That's sickening.

It's absolutely disgusting. What kind of sick person chooses to focus on the living arrangements of one of the victims rather than the cruel tragedy?
InPolska 11 | 1,821
8 Nov 2015 #4
Yes, absolutely disgusting to exploit poor people's misery for propaganda. This unfortunate situation has of course nothing to do with people being married or not. I know hundreds of unmarried couples (including a good dozen in Poland) and they don't kill each other or abuse their kids.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Nov 2015 #5
hundreds of unmarried couples

However, percentagewise Poland's "konkubinaty" generate more than their share of domestic violence compared to normal marreid households. Police alerted by neighbours to loud boisterous vebral and physical altercations will tell you that informal shackers-up are the source of most of the problems. And where do you think the kids suffer more -- in a home with married parents or in a fly-by-night shack-up?
Borsukrates
8 Nov 2015 #6
Would you care to post some sources to support your laughable claim, or shall we just file it alongside your famous invisible attack dogs and microchipped babies?

My bet would be he's simply repeating the Polish Church's stance on this.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
8 Nov 2015 #7
@Pol: no, the hundred or so of non married couples that I know are not in Poland. In Poland I've met few non married couples in fact and all of them in "higher" social classes. I assume that most (?) non married couples in Poland are to be found in lowest social classes and hence poverty, lack of education, often alcoholism, even maybe drugs leading to violence....
Harry
8 Nov 2015 #8
Police alerted by neighbours to loud boisterous vebral and physical altercations will tell you that informal shackers-up are the source of most of the problems.

No, they won't. The police in Poland are not noted for spouting compete and utter bollocks.
You, of course, are; but could you perhaps restrain yourself to doing so in a less sickening way?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Nov 2015 #9
living arrangements

Of course, there are problems amongst married couples, in fact 19 out of 1,000 such children have witnessed violence in their homes. But that cannot compare to the shackers-up which PF's libertine wing is so fervently defending. Why not provide some evidence that kids raised in shack-ups by unwed mothers are happier, healthier and do better at school? No such evidence? Then read on:

A recent national survey shows that children of divorced and never-married parents are far more likely to have been exposed to domestic violence than children in married two-parent families.

In the 2011-2012 National Survey of Children's Health, conducted by the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics, parents of 95,677 children aged 17 and under were asked whether their child had ever seen or heard "any parents, guardians, or any other adults in the home slap, hit, kick, punch, or beat each other up." Among children living with both married biological parents, the rate of exposure to family violence was relatively low: for every 1,000 children in intact families, 19 had witnessed one or more violent struggles between parents or other household members. By comparison, among children living with a divorced or separated mother, the rate of witnessing domestic violence was seven times higher: 144 children per 1,000 had had one or more such experiences.

family-studies.org/children-in-single-parent-families-are-more-likely-to-witness-domestic-violence
Borsukrates
8 Nov 2015 #10
No, they won't. The police in Poland are not noted for spouting compete and utter bollocks.

Can you elaborate on this ? I'm interested to hear a foreigner's opinion.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,333
8 Nov 2015 #11
Opponents of domestic violence should bear in mind that most cases involve shack-up households rather than married couples

Agree with what others have posted regarding this. How low can you stoop Polonius? I notice you haven't expressed any sympathy for the victims either, and you being a devout Catholic too.

percentagewise Poland's "konkubinaty" generate more than their share of domestic violence compared to normal marreid households.

Do you have any proof of this?

And where do you think the kids suffer more -- in a home with married parents or in a fly-by-night shack-up?

That would depend on the parents wouldn't it? But of course there are never any married violent alcoholic parents for example, who mistreat their partners or kids are there?

A terrible tragedy, made worse by your vile reporting of it.

In the 2011-2012 National Survey of Children's Health, conducted by the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics

I don't think the situation in the US is comparable with that of Poland do you? In general, the US is a far more violent country than Poland.

Do you have any data from Poland to support your statement on post #5?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Nov 2015 #12
Do you have any proof of this?

Please re-read or read (if you haven't bothered to so far) the survey covering over 97,000 cases which found that compared to kids living with married biological parents "among children living with a divorced or separated mother, the rate of witnessing domestic violence was seven times higher."

You want to disprove it, take your own survey of 97,000 households. Good luck!
Chemikiem 6 | 2,333
8 Nov 2015 #13
You obviously didn't bother reading my post prior to yours. The data provided in the link concerns the US and not Poland.
You cannot possibly compare the 2 countries. I asked if you could provide Polish data to support your statement on post #5.
Harry
8 Nov 2015 #14
Opponents of domestic violence should bear in mind that most cases involve shack-up households rather than married couples

Interesting to see Polo moving away from this particular claim. Looks like it belongs in the file marked "invisible attack dogs".
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Nov 2015 #15
situation in the US is comparab

No, Poland is far behind the US in terms of fly-by-night liasions. However, things don't go to America from Poland but vice-versa. Give Poland another 10 years of watching pro-libertine Hollywood trash and who knows? By then the US will have also "progressed", so again Poland will have to catch up until finally it achieves total family chaos and lands in a cesspool with all the other "civilised" Western countries.

As for the police, gimme a break! I can't do all youuhomework for you. If you're that interested feel free to up the police spox Krzysztof Hajdas at 48 22 601 3007. Good luck!
Chemikiem 6 | 2,333
8 Nov 2015 #16
As for the police, gimme a break! I can't do all youuhomework for you.

I haven't mentioned the police.
All I asked was if you have any proof to support this statement of yours:

percentagewise Poland's "konkubinaty" generate more than their share of domestic violence compared to normal marreid households.

Why quote it if you have no evidence to support it?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Nov 2015 #17
you have no evidence to support it

Citing the research I wrote that "children of divorced and never-married parents are far more likely to have been exposed to domestic violence than children in married two-parent families."

What more evidence do you want? I sure as hell amnot going to interview 95,000 families just to satisfy your curiosity!
jon357 63 | 15,625
9 Nov 2015 #18
So you've sat through the trial, heard the case for the prosecution, the case for the defence, the testimony of all witnesses including the expert witnesses and of course the judge's summing up?

You must have a time machine.

Unless you prefer Poland to be a country that has summary executions without trial. Perhaps you do.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
9 Nov 2015 #19
such unfortunate situations do happen in lowest socio-economic classes and it appears that a lot of unmarried couples in Poland come from such backgrounds. Pol3 is intelligent enough to understand that such violence results from poverty, lack of perspetives, frustration, alcoholism, drugs....
Chemikiem 6 | 2,333
9 Nov 2015 #20
Citing the research I wrote that "children of divorced and never-married parents are far more likely to have been exposed to domestic violence than children in married two-parent families."

Research that was conducted in the US and therefore totally irrelevant to Poland.
But once again, you've started a thread just so you can take the moral high ground in your stance on unmarried families. Rather similar in fact to the recent thread of yours concerning the heartwarming children's mass where you said the unchurched children were left to watch TV as their parents were too hungover to get them to church.

And still not an ounce of sympathy for the victims.
Not too difficult to work out what this thread is really about is it?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Nov 2015 #21
do happen in lowest socio-economic classes

Not only. Did you know domestic violence also occurs among educated, better-to-do professionals, doctors, lawyers, engineers, entertainers, etc. Do you think there is more or less in married households or among live-in lovers? What's your gut feeling about that? Got any evidence to back your claim?
Atch 17 | 3,311
9 Nov 2015 #22
In the 2011-2012 National Survey of Children's Health, conducted by the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics,

Off-topic. Not related to Poland. Mods, where are you?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Nov 2015 #23
Not related to Poland

As America goes, so goes Poland, Ireland and the world. It's only a question of time. Those screaming "unrelated" seem to be mainly trying to defend today's "cool" and "trendy" shack-up arrangements in an attempt to cloud the sad truth about them and their adverse affect on children.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,333
9 Nov 2015 #24
Those screaming "unrelated" seem to be mainly trying to defend today's "cool" and "trendy" shack-up arrangements in an attempt to cloud the sad truth about them and their adverse affect on children.

I'm not 'screaming' anything, I'm simply saying that you cannot compare those statistics with Poland, and as you have reported on a tragedy concerning an event in Poland, it's only fair that if you are going to supply data, it should be from the relevant country. But you don't have any which is more to the point.

Not much comment on the march itself, no sympathy for the victims, just you on your soapbox as usual slagging off anyone you perceive to have lesser morals than yourself.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
9 Nov 2015 #25
@Pol: of course things of the kind also happen in "higher socio-economic" circles be the couples are married or not (I have also heard re a (PiS?) poseł beating his wife) but situations as the one you started to talk about is mostly to be found in poorest classes.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Nov 2015 #26
be the couples are married or not

It's easy to downplay or slough off the married or unmarried factor, but the whole point is to show that for all their problems nuclear families centred round married parents in general provide the best environment to raise happy, well-balanced youngsters in. Governments can encourage them through family-friendly tax policies and, conversely, discourage them by preferentially treating singles. Today's extremely influential and opinion-moulding popular culture could do a great deal to popularise the decent, well-integrated, complete family but often prefers to sensationalise and titillate their audiences by glamourising various dysfunctiomal, often scandalous counter-culture alternatives.
Harry
9 Nov 2015 #27
What more evidence do you want?

You have presented no evidence at all to support the laughable claim which I picked you up on, i.e. "Opponents of domestic violence should bear in mind that most cases involve shack-up households rather than married couples". All you have done is to repeat the lie, by saying "Police alerted by neighbours to loud boisterous vebral and physical altercations will tell you that informal shackers-up are the source of most of the problems."

Not much comment on the march itself, no sympathy for the victims

Even by the disgraceful standards of Polo this has been a sickening display. One could ask if he has no shame at all, but it's clear from his posts that he has none at all.

anyone you perceive to have lesser morals than yourself.

That is clearly everybody else on the entire planet.
milky 13 | 1,657
9 Nov 2015 #28
@Polonius3

You are so symbolic of all that is wrong in the regressive mind-set of backward people. Your every word is hatred.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
9 Nov 2015 #29
hatred

Whom do you direct your hatred towards: married couples, children who know both their parents, people who do not opt for shack-up lifestyles, maybe churchgoers, those turned off by "grass", adults for whom the family is everything?
jon357 63 | 15,625
9 Nov 2015 #30
You are so symbolic of all that is wrong in the regressive mind-set of backward people. Your every word is hatred.

Dripping hatred from every pore.

All that first posts tells us is that a tragedy happened within a poor family. No cause for moralising at all.

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