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Russian air traffic controllers ignored communication protocol of Polish pilots?


convex 20 | 3,928
12 Apr 2010 #61
Half a clue perhaps.

Well, the plane wasn't old. The crew wasn't inexperienced. And the Polish mentality, well, that's up in the air. You could say things like, Dutch mentality caused the Tenerife accident, or British mentality for the incident with the 747 out of LA, or American mentality for flying into a mountain in Croatia with VIPs aboard....
Robert Warren
12 Apr 2010 #62
I just learned that Polish pilots flying our president had trouble with understanding air traffic controllers who ignored international protocol and instead of English used Russian.

Air Traffic Controller interview transcript:

What did the conversation with the crew looked like?

- I suggested landing on a substitute airport. They didn’t agree to that.

Did you suggest that to them?

- Yes.

For what reason?

- I noticed that the weather was getting worse.

How did they respond?

- They responded: We have enough fuel, we’ll approach, and if unsuccessful we’ll proceed to another airport.

Allegedly there were suggestions to land in other cities?

- Yes, I also suggested that.

Why did he/they refuse?

- He [the pilot] should be asked that.

Why did they made that decision? Did they argue, were they that stubborn that you were not able to convince them otherwise?

- This decision was made by the head pilot.

What took place next? He said that he will circle one more time and will land at another airport?

- No, he said that if he doesn’t land, he will fly to the secondary airport.

And what did you do?

- Just like I said. I can’t say anything else.

But what happened next? Did you loose communication?

- No. Why? We were in communications fairly long.

What did they say?

- They were discussing my instructions. In the beginning they informed me [acknowledged], than they stopped.

They stopped listening to your instructions?

- They were to acknowledge, and didn’t do that.

What kind of instructions?

- Regarding the altitude during the landing attempt.

You didn’t get this information?

- No.

Did it have to do with [any] danger?

- Communications (with the crew) is conducted via radio, it wasn’t taking place (in this instance).

Why didn’t they acknowledge?

- How could I know? Because they didn’t know Russian well.

There was no one on board who spoke Russian?

- There were, but the Russian numbers were like black magic to them.

This means that you didn’t have any information about their altitude?

- None.

If I understand this correctly, he approached once again to land, didn’t touch, and flew to the auxiliary airport? Or something else?

- No, no, not like that. He made another approach, that’s all. And then began to land.

So he made a landing that you ordered him not to do?

- No I couldn’t order him to abort. I recommended to him not to do it.
z_darius 14 | 3,960
12 Apr 2010 #63
An animation of the accident was posted by one of Polish papers:

Detailed video-simulation of the last presidential Tupolev flight that crashed at the airport in Smolensk on Saturday morning. The aircraft landed in poor weather conditions. Killed 96 people , including the Poland's presidential couple , ministers , MPs , church dignitaries , generals .
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,437
12 Apr 2010 #64
was posted by one of Polish papers.

good one D
TIT 5 | 211
12 Apr 2010 #65
An animation of the accident was posted by one of Polish papers.

i wouldnt quote this source, gazeta wyborcza? constantly attacking Polish president and now crying we lost our best man, fcuking hypocrites!!!
Flambo
12 Apr 2010 #66
This means that you didn’t have any information about their altitude?

- None.

What about the GPS devices in the air plane?
This interview seems planted to justify the accident theory.
f stop 24 | 2,499
12 Apr 2010 #67
Hmm...what of interest did you pick out from those comments?

Previous incident where pilot did divert:
The President ordered PIC to land in a war zone near Tibilisi, although the
flight plan was for another safe destination.
The PIC refused, was later, after returning attacked by the President
for insubordination and pressure was made on the military to fire him.
Instead, the Minister of Defence rewarded the pilot with Medal of Honour
for bravery and maintaining his integrity and standard in face of unusual situation.
Stu 12 | 515
12 Apr 2010 #68
i wouldnt quote this source, gazeta wyborcza? constantly attacking Polish president and now crying we lost our best man, fcuking hypocrites!!!

So everyone who didn't agree with K's political ideas and are now united in mourning are hypocrites?! Wow ... ! Then Poland is suddenly full of them. Don't you think your statement is a little oversimplified?
z_darius 14 | 3,960
12 Apr 2010 #69
i wouldnt quote this source, gazeta wyborcza? constantly attacking Polish president and now crying we lost our best man, fcuking hypocrites!!!

Viewing of the animation clip is not compulsory.
Make your own choices, let others make theirs.

Alternatively, you are free to make your own, non-hypocritical animation of the accident.
TIT 5 | 211
12 Apr 2010 #70
listen man, these media like Gazeta Wyborcza, TVN, TOK fm radio were bashing him enormously and now they all cry. People know these media are not independent, not polish.
Jed - | 165
12 Apr 2010 #71
The President ordered PIC to land in a war zone near Tibilisi, although the
flight plan was for another safe destination.

For the President and his delegation it was very important meeting they couldn't miss for many reasons.

The pilot defenetely knew that and might be decided to try his best? Not necessary to put a pressure.
f stop 24 | 2,499
12 Apr 2010 #72
millibars:
QFE 995.6
QNH 1025.5
correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a diff of about 150 meters?
convex 20 | 3,928
12 Apr 2010 #73
not polish.

Nope, Marek Sowa and Adam Michnik aren't Polish. Piotr Walter and Wojciech Kostrzewa aren't Polish either.

correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a diff of about 150 meters?

All things the same, it would be off by well over 200 meters
TIT 5 | 211
12 Apr 2010 #74
do you think its easy to land up your cessna here in Poland and understand Polish affairs just like clicking fingers?
Olga 1 | 330
12 Apr 2010 #75
Polish officials have not yet even listened to the black box recordings.
--The Associated Press
convex 20 | 3,928
12 Apr 2010 #76
do you think its easy to land up your cessna here in Poland and understand Polish affairs just like clicking fingers?

It's not a Cessna, and yes.
TIT 5 | 211
12 Apr 2010 #77
and thats you can say about it?

that your precious flying banger is not a Cessna and you understand what is going on in Polish politics?
nice
Harry
12 Apr 2010 #78
So everyone who didn't agree with K's political ideas and are now united in mourning are hypocrites?! Wow ... ! Then Poland is suddenly full of them. Don't you think your statement is a little oversimplified?

You have to understand that there are currently three groups in Poland:
1) Those genuinely mourning Kaczynski (the minority of people).
2) Those who are (according to the likes of TIT) hypocrites.
3) Those who are sorry that 89 people have died but no more sorry than they are that double that number die on Polish roads every holiday weekend and who think that Kaczynski was frankly a prick anyway (a very small minority and constantly being told "I hope you get cancer" "Just tell me your address and I'll kick your head in" etc etc).
TIT 5 | 211
12 Apr 2010 #79
Those who are sorry that 89 people have died but no more sorry than they are that double that number die on Polish roads every holiday weekend and who think that Kaczynski was frankly a prick anyway.

have you see how many people still gather at Presidential Palace???
convex 20 | 3,928
12 Apr 2010 #80
and thats you can say about it?

that your precious flying banger is not a Cessna and you understand what is going on in Polish politics?
nice

Yea, just because I don't agree with your "evil foreign non-polish corrupting anti-polish media" theory doesn't mean I'm in the dark on politics.
Harry
12 Apr 2010 #81
have you see how many people still gather at Presidential Palace???

Which part of "a very small minority" do you not understand?
z_darius 14 | 3,960
12 Apr 2010 #82
listen man, these media like Gazeta Wyborcza, TVN, TOK fm radio were bashing him enormously and now they all cry. People know these media are not independent, not polish.

I haven't seen any tears, animated or static, in the clip I linked.
Could you post a screen shot of the alleged tears in that clip?
TIT 5 | 211
12 Apr 2010 #83
harry, you mention about
1 true elite mourners
2 hypocrites
3 mass

who gathers at Presidential Palace?

I bet they are not Gazeta Wyborcza lemmings
joepilsudski 26 | 1,388
12 Apr 2010 #84
RIA Novosti recreation of what happened to Kaczynski's plane:

en.rian.ru/video/20100410/158515224.html
f stop 24 | 2,499
12 Apr 2010 #85

That was not very helpful.
TIT 5 | 211
12 Apr 2010 #86
RIA Novosti recreation of what happened to Kaczynski's plane:

tupelew was buncing up and dawn (when you see markers on trees) so no rapid explosion cos no pilot can fly when he has a hot bum
Stu 12 | 515
12 Apr 2010 #87
I bet they are not Gazeta Wyborcza lemmings

Maybe they are people wanting to show their respect, no matter what their political background ... ? Hell, if I'd been in Wwa, I would have done the same thing. Does that make me a hypocrite ... ? Jee, you judge people quickly, don't you? And it is either black or white for you.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,388
12 Apr 2010 #88
That was not very helpful.

Because it showed the plane exploded on it's descent?

The Gazeta recreation showed the plane crashing, then exploding.

We have two different scenarios here.

American mentality for flying into a mountain in Croatia with VIPs aboard....

You talking Ron Brown's plane?...That was sabotage, as far as the plane...Ron Brown was shot in the head by an American operative; that's what killed him...There were a few who survived the crash, but never made it to hospital.
southern 73 | 7,071
12 Apr 2010 #89
How could I know? Because they didn't know Russian well.

This is very shameful for Poland.It is a polish joke indeed.
wildrover 98 | 4,436
12 Apr 2010 #90
[quote=southern]This is very shameful for Poland.It is a polish joke indeed.[/quotekakmuppet

I am sure the whole Polish nation is gratefull for your wisdom on this matter...

Why don,t you stick to commenting on women...something else you know nothing about....??


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