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Is pro-opposition Open Dialogue Foundation a cover for Russian interests



Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #1

The Open Dialogue Foundation, which had called for the overthrow of Poland's government and announced 16 steps on how to achieve it, appears to be a cover for Russian oligarchs linked to that country's defence industry and secret services. The Tusk-era authorities issued a licence to the foundation to deal in armaments. Why an organisation ostensibly devoted to democracy and human rights needs to have access to firearms? -- is a key question. Among the bankrollers is a naval armaments firm in Russian-annexed Crimea and a St Petersburg-based producer of atomic submarines. The foundations appears to be a pawn receiving Russian funds in exchange for a foothold in Poland to Russians interests,Schetyna, who eagerly was photorgaphed with the foundation's leader Kramek, has now been caught with his trousers down, humming and hawing to worm his way out of the the ***'s latest scandal.

thenews.pl


Harry 79 | 13,413    
2 Aug 2017  #2

This is hilarious! It's like the period from 1988 to 2017 never happened and the Party are still trying desperately to keep control. The only real difference is that the criminals carrying out the orders of the First Secretary this time will be answering for their crimes.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
2 Aug 2017  #3

You've made at least two threads slandering this organisation already Po.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #4

this time will be answering

Why is it that thePO scmastersand elarier govenremtns never brought the red scum to justice? Are Poles dumber than Israelis? They nabbed Eichmann in Argentina. Why were no Polish commandos sent to Sweden to nab that scumbag Michnik?Yuur hero Col. Mazguła claims martial law ensured security to Poles.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
2 Aug 2017  #5

You've made at least two threads slandering this organisation already Po.

And in the true style of the "News from the Olde Country" pages of the Podunk Countty Polish Pig Farmer's Gazette which nobody writes for any more, our 'Polish' friend hasn't managed to include some rather relevant facts. For example the supposed 'arms licence' was actually applied for to allow the foundation to transport bulletproof vests and helmets to Ukraine during the height of the Russian attack on that country.

scmastersand elarier govenremtns

Thanks for reminding me I need to go to Biedronka.
Ironside 44 | 8,292    
2 Aug 2017  #6

You've made at least two threads slandering this organisation already Po.

If only 1% of it is true that politician has a lot of explaining to do.

It had been known that he is a traitor. No surprises.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
2 Aug 2017  #7

It had been known that he is a traitor

Macierewicz? So it seems from the recent revelations. He should be given a chance to defend his honour.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
2 Aug 2017  #8

If only 1% of it is true

Care to read the documents for yourself?

Doc 1

Doc 2

It was so much easier for the Party to get their smears out before the days of the internet. Now the lies of their shills can be nailed almost as soon as those are told. Must dash, need to get to the shop before 7.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #9

slandering this organisation

You may not be as bright as HB (that's why he's your guru, not vice-versa) but tell us why would Russian interests bankroll a Polish foundation? Pure Russian altruism, munificence and sincere desire to ensure true freedom and democracy in a hostile NATO state?
Ironside 44 | 8,292    
2 Aug 2017  #10

Care to read the documents for yourself?

It doesn't say about Russian connections of the Foundation.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #11

bulletproof vests and helmet

A clever pretrext that the Tusk regime actually fell for.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
2 Aug 2017  #12

tell us why would Russian interests bankroll a Polish foundation

Care to provide some sources for that claim? I mean real sources, not the current Polish equivalents of the Podunk Countty Polish Pig Farmer's Gazette which just trot out the Party's latest line. From the financial reports filed with the Polish Foreign Ministry, the largest donor last year was Google.

A clever pretrext that the Tusk regime actually fell for.

Here's a list of the 'weapons' bought and shipped:
PARAMILITARY AND PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT
Type of equipment Number
Bullet-proof vests (pcs) 375
Uniforms (sets) 60
Helmets (pcs.) 183
Shoes (pairs) 56
Protectors, goggles, masks (pcs) 170
Optical equipment - thermal imagers (pcs) 4
Celox treatments and armbands 238
handheld transceivers (hereinafter: walkie talkies) (pcs) 6
Total (pcs): 1092
//odfoundation.eu/i/fmfiles/pdf/podsumowanie-finansowe-dzialan-pomocowych-odf-na-rzecz-ukrainy-2013-14-en-new.pdf

Things must have been so much easier in the days when your readers couldn't instantly fact-check your claims, eh?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #13

Here's a list of the 'weapons'

Congratulations. You had me fooled. Some of your naive claims made me wonder why a fairly intelligent person would believe such official codswallop. Now it all falls into place. You are an agent of influence. An agent of influence insists that purported statements, façades and official pronoucements are genuine and above all they deny they are agents of inlfuence.

Of course Open Dialogue, especially those backing it in the shadows, do not publish their true aims, MO and expenses. It's all very clandestine and involves multiple organisational layers. The agent knows only his immediate superior and immediate subordinate and no-one else. The Russians have been masters of such operations, masters of disguise, deception, disinformation and subterfuge. Purporitng to aid the Ukrainian freedom upsurge was an excellent ruse to conceal the true aims being pursued.

So once again, many congrats! Initially it didn't make any sense that someone who hates and discredits Poland, Poles, Polish heritage, etc. at every turn and always supports the antii-Polish side of any row should force himself to live here. Now it all makes sense.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #14

Care to read the documents for yourself?

Now that the cat's out of the bag and the "agent of inlfuence" hypothesis is becoming increasingly plausible, you should chill out a bit. Immediately producing official documents only confirms your organsational and tactical dexterity and shows you are plugged into some institutional setup and have all necessary "evidence" needed to pusue your mission at your fingertips.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
2 Aug 2017  #15

Of course Open Dialogue, especially those backing it in the shadows, do not publish their true aims, MO and expenses.

Are you claiming that the reports and financial records are all false? If so, would you care to share the sources which support your claims so we can assess them to see if they're simply the same sort of sources which used to lead to the Podunk County Polish Pig Farmer's Gazette running reports about ZOMO heroes facing off against Solidarnosc bandits before cheering crowds of Poles who wanted nothing more than the glorious rule of the Party to continue.

It's all very clandestine and involves multiple organisational layers.

Let's guess: there are the Illuminatii, the Rothschilds, the Freemason, the gay mafia, the shape-shifting lizard people, the Vatican Bank, etc, right?

Purporitng to aid the Ukrainian freedom upsurge was an excellent ruse to conceal the true aims being pursued.

Except they didn't purport to aid Ukrainian freedom, they did aid it, as all of the paperwork and reports from the likes of the OSCE show.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #16

paperwork and reports

One can create paperwork and reports to support any idea, campaign, movement hypothesis or claim. And that was the case even before the cyber-era. Those employing agents of influence have an excellent grasp of human pschology -- esp. human greed. So in every government, institution, coporation or other body (UN, EU, OSCE, churches, civic organsiaitons, ewtc.) there are "plants" whose task is to collect intelligecne, dsptread disinformation, sabotage or whatever their masters have ordered htem to do. I wouldn't be eurpised if there are few such people even in the PiS administration. That has always been the case, and those who try to deny it give themselves away as either being extremely gullible and taking everything at face value or, more likely, serving as agents of influence themselves.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
2 Aug 2017  #17

Are you claiming that the reports and financial records are all false?

He is. They are not.

Let's guess

Remember fascism always needs "hiddden enemies" to fuel the paranoia on which it feeds.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #18

fascism always needs "hiddden enemies"

Typical reaction tactic. Like making fun of conspiracy theories except one finds them at every turn. PO are always looking for ulterior motives in PiS' ranks -- Szyszko opposes the EU anti-logging order becuase he probably has contracted the timber with some commercial company. If that's true he will surely deny it or find some fancy excuse. That is part and parcel of the way the world worfs -- IBM, Siemens, Sony, GM, VW, not to mention state intelligence services. Call them hidden enemies if you like, but one side is trying to get a preview of the competitor's latest designs and the competitor is trying to prevent it or send the intelligence-gatherers on a wild goose chase (disinformation). Espionage services want to know what some rival country is planning and that country's counter-intelligence aims to nip such attemtps in the bud. An arrangement as old as human history.

They are not

How do you know? It seems you are feeding your Hairy guru the exact ripostes he wants to hear.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
2 Aug 2017  #19

Like making fun of conspiracy theories except one finds them at every turn.

One finds steaming dog turds on every street corner, and they have the same nutritional value and tasty flavour as conspiracy theories.

In this case, the Foundation mentioned in the thread is entirely above suspicion and completely transparent. Without this, they would not be able to do the very high level work they do.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #20

entirely above suspicion

The Foundation is clearly a "słup" (front or pawn) serving those who are bankrolling it. No front organisation openly states "we are a front organisation bankrolled by.... for the purpose of....." Instead they spout pious platitudes about how they are totally devoted to the natural environment, democracy, saving historical monuments or some endnagered species, etc. NGOs, whci afre lawys in need of grants, are an exceptionally convenient tool for covering up the hidden agenda of organisations, corproations, entire governments or just their security services.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #21

very high level work they do.

Such organisations at times puruse their own agenda, even a worthwhile one. But in exchange for getting generously bankrolled they grant their sponsors access to the countries they're registered in (re Open Dialogue to Poland), may serve as dirty-money laundries or to infilitrate the host government's structures.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
2 Aug 2017  #22

But in exchange for getting generously bankrolled

They aren't. They fund projects rather than get "bankrolled". You're scraping the bottom of the barrel even more than usual with that factoid.

may serve as dirty-money laundries or to infilitrate the host government's structures.

Or make take up Morris Dancing, get abducted by aliens or set up a cannibal restaurant. They don't.

Money-laundering indeed. Next you'll be accusing them of organ theft.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
2 Aug 2017  #23

abducted by aliens

Already the ancient Romans had coined the term reductio ad absurdam. Millennia ago they had seen through the cheap tricks you are still trying to use to confuse your audience and derail the discussion.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
2 Aug 2017  #24

reductio ad absurdam. Millennia ago they had seen through the cheap tricks you are still trying to use to confuse your audience and derail the discussion.

They also cointed the term 'prima facie', and this is prima facie example of that. The thread title's inflammatory and mendacious - you pose a question that is nonsense, since there's no question of wrongdoing by the foundation involved, and you did it purely to malign an absolutely blameless organisation that you personally dislike. Not for the first time either - you have started three similar threads.

And as for 'cheap tricks' - well, Po...
jon357 70 | 12,786    
2 Aug 2017  #25

And you've never been able to do anything more than make insinuations against Mr Soros and his philanthropy - evidently because he is above reproach.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
3 Aug 2017  #26

there's no question of wrongdoing by the foundation

How do you know? Did you personally run a thorough-going audit? Or were you briefed by your guru and handler HB? You, jon. aren't bright enough to be an agent of influence, that's why they chose HB. But never fear. In the overall scheme of things you do qualify to be what Lenin called a "useful idiot". Such a one dutifully parrots what the agent of influence happens to be peddling at a given point in time.

And I must admit, you'r quite good at that, so hang in there!
Harry 79 | 13,413    
3 Aug 2017  #27

How do you know?

How do we know that you aren't employed by Soros yourself to write as often the most stupid possible arguments against him so people read anything at all negative about Soros and immediately just discount them as being the same rubbish they read written by you about Soros being behind the Illuminatii, the Rothschilds, the Freemason, the gay mafia, the shape-shifting lizard people and the Vatican Bank?

We don't know that. What we do know is that there is no proof that you are employed by Soros. There are circumstances which can be viewed a certain way, but there is no evidence.

Evidence is usually considered important: it is what separates facts from fiction. I know you've always had problems telling those two apart, but do try. Why not present us with some facts to support your claim that the Open Dialogue Foundation is a cover for Russian interests and has been dealing in arms? Not more of your mad conspiracy theories that even the editor of the sadly defunct Podunk County Polish Pig Farmer's Gazette would have rejected, actual demonstrable hard fact.
Sparks11 - | 288    
3 Aug 2017  #28

can someone puh-lease tell me how to get in on all this soros money flying around?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
3 Aug 2017  #29

he is above reproach

You are playing the "useful idiot" role to the hilt. First you parrot some intenable notion (eg Soros is a great, selfless and wholly altruistic philanthropist) and when confronted you allege that the source exploidng your claim is unreliable or otherwise stonewall. Find out why Soros is feared, suspect and unwelcome in different countries:

washingtonfeed.com/massive-movement-to-overthrow-george-soros-explodes-in-macedonia.html

there is no proof

Yes, but there are indications. I might be a Soros agent, but I would have to be; 1) a materialist and/or 2) someone to whom his anarcho-leftist-libertine agenda is acceptable. HB by contrast displays all the hallmarkss of an ideal agent of influence. Why else would he live and work in a coutnry he hates, derides its people, culture, tradiitons, religion, food, industry and most everything else as "crappy" if someone wasn't handsomely paying him to. Besides he is a matrialist, hedonist and cynic, the ideal attributes of a good agent of influence.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
3 Aug 2017  #30

I would have to be; 1) a materialist and/or 2) someone to whom his anarcho-leftist-libertine agenda is acceptable.

There's a lot more proof that you are a materialist than there is proof the Open Dialogue Foundation is a cover for Russian interests. If you weren't a materialist you'd have given a certain villa back to the state which once owned the property.

And there is more proof that people are happy to work for agendas that they themselves do not accept than there is proof the Open Dialogue Foundation is a cover for Russian interests. One only needs to think of the former Warsaw correspondent of the Podunk County Polish Pig Farmer's Gazette who did not accept the communist agenda of all men being equal but who happily shilled for them on the condition that he got access to the yellow-curtain shops.

Besides he is a matrialist, hedonist and cynic, the ideal attributes of a good agent of influence.

Should we conclude that the fact you have responded to a request for actual demonstrable hard facts with off-topic ad hom trolling that you now can't be bothered to make even any pretense of supporting your latest laughable claims about the Open Dialogue Foundation.




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