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70% of Poles like Komorowski. Do you?


rankalee 2 | 56
16 Aug 2012 #61
Its a forum, I was bored, so I decided to write it.
p3undone 8 | 1,132
16 Aug 2012 #62
boletus,this is how you learn,by admitting that you are ignorant of something;wouldn't you agree?
boletus 30 | 1,361
16 Aug 2012 #63
Now, I am so astound; if I have nothing to share I keep my mouth shut and listen, waiting for my turn to share. :-)

I am sorry, I am not buying to this: "its a forum, I was bored, so I decided to write it." I call it noise. You call it whatever you want.
p3undone 8 | 1,132
16 Aug 2012 #64
boletus,just a question.
pawian 222 | 24,343
16 Aug 2012 #65
No time to read now.
A simple question: are there any better candidates for the post?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
16 Aug 2012 #66
A simple question: are there any better candidates for the post?

At this time? Nope.

I suspect we're going to see a good run by an independent candidate in 2015 however - PiS are totally disorganised and unable to field a credible challenger, the SLD have hardly no-one - there's just no-one waiting in the wings.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,278
16 Aug 2012 #67
And what about Plichta? Plichta for President! Why not?

Jestem za, a nawet przeciw!
xzqbq7 2 | 100
16 Aug 2012 #68
are there any better candidates

Anybody that cares about Poland would be better. Let's see: 38 million Poles in Poland plus 10 million abroad.
Subtract old people, children, sick, afraid of public speaking, afraid of serial suicide killer, 5 million left.
Subtract PO, Palitiger, communists supporters - 4.9 million left.

So there it is: 4.9 million better candidates.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
17 Aug 2012 #69
So why are the opposition completely unable to field one good candidate against Komorowski - indeed, why aren't they already announcing a challenger to unsettle him?

You don't like him because he doesn't subscribe to your backwards village peasant views. With 70% approval ratings, he's doing a fine job.
xzqbq7 2 | 100
17 Aug 2012 #70
why are the opposition completely unable to field one good candidate

In my backwards village peasant (I really, really like it) view, maybe the opposition doesn't want its candidate, him, or her,
exposed like a punching bag to regime media for extended time? They say you cannot beat a sitting president, but they
certainly can drawn themselves.... so maybe it makes sense? Of course in my backwards village peasant way of thinking.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
17 Aug 2012 #71
maybe the opposition doesn't want its candidate, him, or her,
exposed like a punching bag to regime media for extended time? They say you cannot beat a sitting president, but they
certainly can drawn themselves.... so maybe it makes sense?

The thing is - they're not even attempting to place some people as being possible contenders. Look at them - Ziobro is seen as a madman (though - his tactics for Solidarna Polska are actually quite clever - he is obviously the future), Kaczynski ruled himself out as he wants another shot at being Prime Minister, Macierewicz has been used by Kaczynski to become the face of Smolensk (and thus - unelectable) - who else is there?

At least from my point of view, they desperately need to find a challenger who has the credibility to take on Komorowski. They don't have to announce the person as such, but rather just make sure that they have someone who can behave like an elder statesman. Perhaps - a woman?
xzqbq7 2 | 100
17 Aug 2012 #72
desperately need to find a challenger

Why? Komorowski will be running against his own record, so let him explain what he meant by rapid retirement age extension,
his public gathering bill, etc. etc.
I see plenty of older statesman types on right, not Kaczynski (professor), not Maciarewicz (unpleasant voice). I don't know if
'Ziobro is the future', he hasn't convinced me yet.
Again without access to prime media (you know the issue with TV Trwam), why would anybody step out of the line now?
4-6 months before elections, yes, but not now.

Backwards village peasant.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
17 Aug 2012 #73
Why? Komorowski will be running against his own record, so let him explain what he meant by rapid retirement age extension,
his public gathering bill, etc. etc.

Except - so far - his approval ratings are running at 70%. That much speaks for itself - he would run away with an election now, especially as the strongest opposition challenger wouldn't be able to rely on public sympathy. In fact, given that he has made it clear that he's no puppet of Tusk, the centre-left voters are even more likely to back him.

I see plenty of older statesman types on right, not Kaczynski (professor), not Maciarewicz (unpleasant voice). I don't know if
'Ziobro is the future', he hasn't convinced me yet.

But none of those elder statemen on the right have the public face to really challenge. That's what I mean - they are lacking someone who speaks objectively, who isn't afraid to praise (as well as criticise) - but who, crucially, is seen as someone who would continue the dignity of Komorowski. Look at history - Poles simply do not like Presidents who get involved.

Again without access to prime media (you know the issue with TV Trwam),

The issue where TV Trwam refused to open their accounts to scrutiny in order to be awarded a place on the public multiplex? Oh yes. We all know about how they spun that one to make it seem like they weren't the bad guys - when we all know that there's no way that they would want people to know the truth behind their financing.

Komorowski has the next election won already at this rate. There are no serious challengers emerging, he has high approval ratings - I think it's safe to say that he's cruising for an easy first round victory. It's not going to be enough to put in hard work 4-6 months in advance - look at how PO had started the process almost 2 years before, and you can see how a bit of professionalism goes a long way.

Either way, the "right" (which is actually hard left, but anyway) needs to determine a candidate well, well in advance. 4-6 months simply isn't enough.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,278
17 Aug 2012 #74
So why are the opposition completely unable to field one good candidate against Komorowski - indeed, why aren't they already announcing a challenger to unsettle him?

I don't know if 'Ziobro is the future', he hasn't convinced me yet.

Ziobro, as long as he remains outside PiS, is no future for anyone except for himself and his family; anybody who knows anything about Polish politics will have not the slightest doubt about it. When Jarek is the boss of the PiS party, and Ziobro is outside it, Ziobro may well go back to his activities as a lawyer.

The problem for PiS begins when Jarek, as an ageing politician, will have to - at one point or another - resign from his post and leave it to someone else. Who may be that "someone else" is at the moment largely unknown, but since there is no one as distinct as Jarek for a prospective leadership of PiS, the party is then at risk of splitting into smaller groups.

Again without access to prime media (you know the issue with TV Trwam), why would anybody step out of the line now?

That is the long-played (and false) tune of PiS supporters. I must remind them of the victory of PiS in the parliamentary election of 2005 and the victory of Lech Kaczyński in the presidential one in the same year. The access of PiS to "prime media" was then as as high or as low - if you prefer that - as in 2007 or in 2010, or as it is today. Yet PiS managed to win both elections in 2005.
Ironside 53 | 12,413
17 Aug 2012 #75
The problem for PiS begins when Jarek, as an ageing politician

Ageing? How old was Regan when he become President> ? How old was George W Bush? How old was Jaruzelski when he become President?

That's what I mean - they are lacking someone who speaks objectively, who isn't afraid to praise (as well as criticise) - but who, crucially, is seen as someone who would continue the dignity of Komorowski. Look at history - Poles simply do not like Presidents who get involved.

Poles? Like everywhere media are power.
I think that office of President is not needed and too costly in the present system - just waste of money.
As for lacking someone - sure, you are right there is nobody in the system. However it is system that should be changed.

That is the long-played (and false) tune of PiS supporters.

Can you prove it?No? stop repeating the long played propaganda of PO supporters. The PO is a good thing, its clears political scene in Poland all **** drift.

the dignity of Komorowski.

A what?:D

The issue where TV Trwam refused to open their accounts to scrutiny

Do you blame them? I wouldn't open my ass crack to scrutiny on any promises given by those professional liars.

We all know about how they spun that one to make it seem like they weren't the bad guys -

They lie every-time they open their mouth.
Oh stop that rubbish delph!
I can bet real money against bananas any time that any given institution or/and person have more to hide by tenfold than TV trwam.

the next election

PO should win the next election at least there will not be any doubt who to hang.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,278
17 Aug 2012 #76
Ziemowit:
That is the long-played (and false) tune of PiS supporters.
Can you prove it?No?

I thought it was as clear as possible for everybody. The proof was as follows:

Again without access to prime media (you know the issue with TV Trwam), why would anybody step out of the line now?

I must remind them of the victory of PiS in the parliamentary election of 2005 and the victory of Lech Kaczyński in the presidential one in the same year. The access of PiS to "prime media" was then as as high or as low - if you prefer that - as in 2007 or in 2010, or as it is today. Yet PiS managed to win both elections in 2005.

I reminded that with the same access to "prime media" in 2005 as today, PiS managed to win two consecutive elections at that time. So blaming the lack of access to "prime media" as a real cause of failing to win another election is a long-played and f-a-l-s-e (as PiS had already won two elections with the same access to "prime media") tune of PiS supporters.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,368
18 Aug 2012 #77
PO should win the next election at least there will not be any doubt who to hang.

Not only a village idiot, but a village idiot with a pitchfork! I like it. (:
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
25 Aug 2012 #78
I must remind them of the victory of PiS in the parliamentary election of 2005 and the victory of Lech Kaczyński in the presidential one in the same year.

The thing is that back then PiS was tolerated (nor supported neither attacked) because was seen as a junior partner of PO. The attack of mainstream media started soon later, when it turned out that PiS can really threaten post-89 status quo, and it's been happening since then. Have you read recent article about Kaczyński in Newsweek ?
pawian 222 | 24,343
25 Aug 2012 #79
Not only a village idiot, but a village idiot with a pitchfork! I like it. (:

Polish saying for that: it is PF folklore.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
25 Aug 2012 #80
The thing is that back then PiS was tolerated (nor supported neither attacked) because was seen as a junior partner of PO. The attack of mainstream media started soon later, when it turned out that PiS can really threaten post-89 status quo, and it's been happening since then.

Nice attempt at revising history. Unfortunately, it isn't true.

The backlash started when PiS went into coalition with the two worst possible parties, and they started to push through their authoritarian agenda. The centrist voters were furious, and once Jarek took over as Prime Minister, things really spiralled out of control for PiS. They were hell bent on revenge at all costs, and it's no surprise that the opposition media were having a field day with their incompetence.

I remind you - TVP was firmly in their hands by 2007.

Anyway, PiS could never threaten the post-89 situation because of just who Rajmund Kaczynski was.
jon357 74 | 22,000
25 Aug 2012 #81
A spot on summary of the situation.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
25 Aug 2012 #82
The backlash started when PiS went into coalition with the two worst possible parties, and they started to push through their authoritarian agenda. The centrist voters were furious, and once Jarek took over as Prime Minister, things really spiralled out of control for PiS. They were hell bent on revenge at all costs

You are one of the most fanatical PO supporter I have ever seen, A kind of the most hardcore PiS supporters loving Macierewicz, Rydzyk etc. just your love is directed at another party. Is Niesiołowski your father in law ?

and it's no surprise that the opposition media were having a field day with their incompetence.

The opposition media such as TVN, GW, RMF FM, Radio Zet, onet. Do you really not understand that once the mainstream media are becoming "opposition media" (and anti-opposition media after power is shifted) this is a really dangerous situation ? This is actually the main reason why we've been in stagnation since 5 years. If there is no healthy media pressure on PO, they will do nothing except day to day administration. I used to be pro-PO till around 2006, I could even start supporting them again If they really start acting on red-tape limitation, turn back OFE and VAT madness, seriously reduce spendings on administration, fight on corruption, reduce giantic mismanagement in the public sector etc. but there's no chance for that, as no one is demanding such things and once PO gets in troubles (for example recent scandals) there goes former "opposition media" (now anti-opposition) and you get stuff like an article about Kaczyński, his "authoritarian methods being threat for democracy bla bla" written by Lis or some other *****, which is hanging on for several days on the main page of onet. This is basically Putinization of Poland.

Anyway, PiS could never threaten the post-89 situation because of just who Rajmund Kaczynski was.

Thank God Tusk will always maintain good relations with Germany because of who his grandfather was :)))))
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
25 Aug 2012 #83
You are one of the most fanatical PO supporter I have ever seen, A kind of the most hardcore PiS supporters loving Macierewicz, Rydzyk etc. just your love is directed at another party. Is Niesiołowski your father in law ?

Why don't you try and tell the truth rather than insulting others?

The old "woe is us, everyone hates us" line just doesn't work. Can't you see that?

The opposition media such as TVN, GW, RMF FM, Radio Zet, onet. Do you really not understand that once the mainstream media are becoming "opposition media" (and anti-opposition media after power is shifted) this is a really dangerous situation ?

Dangerous for who? It's certainly dangerous for the mental health of PiS supporters who somehow believe that there's a mainstream media conspiracy against them, but that's about it.

This is actually the main reason why we've been in stagnation since 5 years.

Stagnation? Salaries are going up, GDP is rising, quality of life is increasing - not much to complain about, really. That would be why PO win every single opinion poll - because life is getting better bit by bit. We aren't seeing "quick fix" solutions, but in a young democracy, stability over shocks is preferable.

This is basically Putinization of Poland.

Typical words of a PiS supporter. May I remind you that the second biggest selling newspaper in Poland contains almost daily criticism of Tusk?

Thank God Tusk will always maintain good relations with Germany because of who his grandfather was :)))))

Yes, because someone who was forcibly imprisoned by the Germans can be compared to the treasonous swine that was Rajmund Kaczynski.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
25 Aug 2012 #84
Dangerous for who?

For democracy.

Stagnation? Salaries are going up, GDP is rising, quality of life is increasing - not much to complain about, really. That would be why PO win every single opinion poll - because life is getting better bit by bit. We aren't seeing "quick fix" solutions, but in a young democracy, stability over shocks is preferable.

No more questions :)))

May I remind you that the second biggest selling newspaper in Poland contains almost daily criticism of Tusk?

Indeed, it's not that bad in case of printed media but what really matters (+90% of people don't read any press) is TV, internet and radio and imbalance in these cases is huge.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
25 Aug 2012 #85
For democracy.

I don't see any danger to democracy. We have a 5 party system, several viable coalitions and opinion polls that seem to suggest that voter fatigue will kick in by 2015. In fact, democracy might never be stronger at the next election - PiS will have their solid 30%, PO will get 30% or so and the other small parties will be kingmakers. There is really no threat to democracy. In fact, if this media was so influential, why did they all cover the Amber Gold situation with glee?

Indeed, it's not that bad in case of printed media but what really matters (+90% of people don't read any press) is TV, internet and radio and imbalance in these cases is huge.

Internet? Haven't you seen Nasza Klasa recently? It's absolutely jammed full of PiS voters these days.

TV? That's entirely down to how PiS thoroughly manipulated TVP.

Radio? Radio Maryja, anyone?

Why don't you just admit that the current PiS strategy in relation to media is completely and utterly flawed? They need to start from the grass roots - stop calling Gazeta Wyborcza names, stop abusing TVN reports, etc. When that stops, perhaps PiS might find that the media is a bit warmer to them, too.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
25 Aug 2012 #86
I don't see any danger to democracy.

If you think that mainstream media running to rescue the government once it gets into troubles is no threat to democracy, then you don't know what it word is all about.

In fact, if this media was so influential, why did they all cover the Amber Gold situation with glee?

If they didn't, it would mean the country became totalitarian, it's not a case fortunately, but somehow it's hardly mentioned that the whole "business" would have been shut down long time ago If the state institutions were working properly. They failed, because they are incompetent and corrupted. Amber Gold is PO's scandal not because young Tusk made a few grands there but because it shows how rotten the state is under PO's rule. Now show me any minstream media stuff, which clearly highlight the link between ineffectivenes of state's institutions with PO being in charge since 5 years. I'm waiting.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
25 Aug 2012 #87
If you think that mainstream media running to rescue the government once it gets into troubles is no threat to democracy, then you don't know what it word is all about.

But the mainstream media isn't running to help - if they were, they would never bring up the issues with the Agricultural ministry, the issues with Amber Gold, etc etc. Again - that's just the PiS paranoia complex that everyone is out to get them. Then again, given that they were the architects of "mass media manipulation" in Poland, maybe they're afraid that what they introduced is now returning to haunt them.

but somehow it's hardly mentioned that the whole "business" would have been shut down long time ago If the state institutions were working properly.

It was very widely reported that Gowin had declared his willingness to take the responsibility for this. Not "hardly mentioned" at all.

Amber Gold is PO's scandal not because young Tusk made a few grands there but because it shows how rotten the state is under PO's rule.

The funniest thing is that these parabanks existed long before PO came onto the scene.

Now show me any minstream media stuff, which clearly highlight the link between ineffectivenes of state's institutions with PO being in charge since 5 years.

I think everyone knows that PO cannot change everything in a day or even a year. The institutions are working (the process to register a business is now absolutely painless) well - they could be better, but we all know that the alternative is the institutions being used to lead witchhunts.

Try as you might, you're never going to convince the electorate that PiS can do any better. We all know that Jarek was begging the Government to spend, spend, spend when the crisis started - just like they were criticising Kopacz for not buying the vaccines. Who was proved right? The Government.

I think you need to realise one thing - no-one except the stupid believes the crap that PiS come out with about changing everything quickly. It's just not possible - unless you wish to show me an example of how things have been dramatically changed in a country of a similar size? For instance - Spain is still suffering with the State mentality, nearly 40 years after the death of Franco. Poland's had 22 years.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,149
25 Aug 2012 #88
they would never bring up the issues with the Agricultural ministry, the issues with Amber Gold

They don't really "bring them up", they must inform about facts as it is not the Soviet Union where one could hide such things, but additional comments are very mild and there's no determination to keep sniffing around it. PSL scandal is not a front page news anymore and soon it will die out, when in fact such stuff is a norm in this party.

It was very widely reported that Gowin had declared his willingness to take the responsibility for this.

Quote ?

The funniest thing is that these parabanks existed long before PO came onto the scene.

There's nothing wrong with parabanks unless the state tolerates pathology.

The institutions are working well

Yes, giving Marcin P. six (!) sentences in suspension and freezing for over a year KNF's request to take action on Amber Gold :)) Another issue is that most probably we will never know who was standing behind Marcin P. guy is clearly too stupid to organize it all on his own.

I think everyone knows that PO cannot change everything in a day or even a year.

But you know, it's been 5 years :)) So how many years they need, please tell me.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,278
25 Aug 2012 #89
Thank God Tusk will always maintain good relations with Germany because of who his grandfather was :)))))

Who was Tusk's grandfather?
Mishka - | 4
26 Aug 2012 #90
No. He's stupid and disgusting.


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