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Poles are able to forgive their enemies - how noble.


pgtx 29 | 3,159
27 Sep 2011 #31
Many Poles haven't forgiven the Germans or Russians
Somebody should wake them up and tell them that WW2 has ended 66 years ago.

will Americans ever forget 9/11?
rock - | 460
27 Sep 2011 #32
It is difficult to forget this tragedy.

But who was the enemy ?

Whom they will forgive ?
sascha 1 | 826
27 Sep 2011 #33
will Americans ever forget 9/11?

why? what for? the civilians who lost close people not, but the us admin is using that in their purpose. to reign with fear and lead a lets say very pragmantic foreign policy.

It is difficult to forget this tragedy.

what tragedy? one could also say that the us admin sacrified lives to achieve sth. ever thought that way?
TheOther 6 | 3,821
27 Sep 2011 #34
will Americans ever forget 9/11

Will they still moan and whinge about it 70 years from now, or will they simply move on? I tell you what has happened: everyone remembers the tragedy, but nobody is talking about "forgiving" here.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
27 Sep 2011 #35
It's somehow easier to forgive your own govt than that of others.
lisa_xxoo - | 3
27 Sep 2011 #36
Somebody should wake them up and tell them that WW2 has ended 66 years ago.

The war may have ended,but I can assure you,the effects of it haven't. The scares from the brutality that was inflicted have been passed down from one generation to the next. 66 years ago- depending on your age is one or two genetations ago (my grandparents) and Poland has just begun to heal....after the Germans it was the Russians- Freedom is still new,the wall fell in 1989.

And don't forget the other part of the Lord's prayer

Taketh they camera
maketh sure that thy taketh a photograth,
to showeth to the rest of the world
Be sure to stroketh thy vanity once in a while
So that the world seeth what a good person you are.

Vanity of Vanities.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Love it!! LOL!!
Crow 138 | 8,067
28 Sep 2011 #37
Somebody should wake them up and tell them that WW2 has ended 66 years ago.

actually, it never ended.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
28 Sep 2011 #38
It ended in mid-August 1945 after the Emperor of Japan issued the imperial rescript accepting the terms of the Potsdam Treaty and hostilities legally ceased after acts of parliament by the major combatant nations in 1951.
Crow 138 | 8,067
28 Sep 2011 #39
Thanks for opinion but, it didn`t end. It even started much before it was officially declared
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
28 Sep 2011 #40
It even started much before it was officially declared

Some date it from the invasion of Manchuria but this is hair splitting. It started 1/9/39 and ended 15/8/45.
PWEI 3 | 612
28 Sep 2011 #41
JonnyM
It started 1/9/39 and ended 15/8/45.

Although Hiroo Onoda might have views to the contrary.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
28 Sep 2011 #42
I remember one of those guys coming out of the jungle. There were rumours about some still being there but I suppose they'd be dead by now.
OP pawian 168 | 11,159
5 Apr 2012 #43
"The struggle, reconciliation and friendship" - is part of the title of the exhibition, which is 30 August 2002 opened in the Municipal Cultural Centre in Gniezno. Exhibitions devoted to the history of friendship between two pilots, who many years ago, the first day of a stormy September, met in the sky as mortal enemies.

The protagonists of the exhibition presented in Gniezno were two pilots, who on the first day of September 1939 met the sky as mortal enemies. Wladyslaw Gnys and Frank Neubert - because they Sept. 1 took part in air battle over the Malopolska - many years after the war they met again. Two former enemies joined friendship that lasted until his death. Just about this friendship, for reconciliation, but also the nightmare years of the war assembled the exhibition in Gniezno.


[........]

d

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Władysław_Gnyś
sascha 1 | 826
15 Apr 2012 #44
forgive yes, forget no. that's a good principle...
Trevek 26 | 1,702
16 Apr 2012 #45
Quite noble of Wałęsa. Or not?

Well, their daughters are good friends, aren't they?

A friend of mine was a British paratrooper (he was English). He fought at Arnhem. After the war he was captured by the Russians, hiking across red Germany and spent 7 years in gulag.

A few years ago, he told me of riding his motorbike over to Arnhem and partying with some other veterans. I asked if they were fellow paras... "Some, but most were Waffen SS... what a great bunch of lads!"

Funny thing was, he'd never work on a communist vehicle (he was a mechanic) or even ride a communist built motorcycle to the day he died.
OP pawian 168 | 11,159
28 Apr 2012 #46
Well, their daughters are good friends, aren't they?

Didn`t hear about it. Tried to google it but got nothing.

A few years ago, he told me of riding his motorbike over to Arnhem and partying with some other veterans. I asked if they were fellow paras... "Some, but most were Waffen SS... what a great bunch of lads!"

Life.... :):):):)
wildrover 98 | 4,451
28 Apr 2012 #47
My father had many friends from the Afrika korps...

Back in 1942 they were doing their best to kill each other...

I agree with what somebody else already said...

Forgive yes... but to forget is to let it happen again...
OP pawian 168 | 11,159
29 Apr 2012 #48
My father had many friends from the Afrika korps...

Back in 1942 they were doing their best to kill each other...

German and British etc veterans could easily become friends because, despite being enemies, they had treated each other as equal. Germans didn`t plan to erase the British nation from the surface of the earth. They only wanted to dominate.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
29 Apr 2012 #49
Paiwan,How are Russian/Polish relations today,both politically and people to people?Did the Smolensk crash promulgate alienation?
Meathead 5 | 470
29 Apr 2012 #50
Well I suppose it is not, and well done to him for doing so. However a true Christian gesture would be to reconcile with him and not tell anyone about it.

No, it had to be publicized. These two are public figures, Walesa's gesture was to bury the hatchet not just between those two but the entire Polish Nation.

Poland was not a Communist country by choice but Communist Invaded so maybe that's why Poles tend to forgive Jaruzelski and did not send him to rot in jail like the French did with Marechal Petain.

Nonsense, there was plenty of political support in Poland for Communism. In the 1940's Communism was considered a viable political philosophy. If Poland was as anti-communist as you suggest they would have accepted the Marshall Plan.

will Americans ever forget 9/11?

As long as they can make money off of 911 for Homeland security and wars it won't be forgotten.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
29 Apr 2012 #51
Meathead, I don't make war or profit from 911,but I promise you I won't forget.It was burned in my memory as well as many other Americans who just live out they're lives.That's kind of a crude thing for you to say.Please don't throw all Americans

in the same category as the powerful politicians and the Moguls.The situation is no different here then it is anywhere when
it comes to how people deal with horror thrown upon them,whether It was 11yrs. or 70yrs.ago.
sascha 1 | 826
29 Apr 2012 #52
how people deal with horror thrown upon them

what kind of horror?
i know that other explanations for those 'attacks' are put aside as some sort of consiracy theories, BUT looking back and considering the today's politics of the us admin there might be more than truth in it that there was a scenario selfmade and used afterwards...

what do you think about that?
wildrover 98 | 4,451
29 Apr 2012 #53
German and British etc veterans could easily become friends because, despite being enemies, they had treated each other as equal. Germans didn`t plan to erase the British nation from the surface of the earth. They only wanted to dominate.

I agree , the desert war was very civilised , just opposing forces doing battle , no partisans , no death squads , no Gestapo...

Very different from what was happening in Poland and the rest of Europe...
sascha 1 | 826
29 Apr 2012 #54
ww2 was the biggest systematic slaughtering ever started by one nation based on bs race ideology.
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
30 Apr 2012 #55
the desert war was very civilised

I have the diary entry for a young British Pilot in the desert airforce,he'd had german friends before the war but he still writes quite casually about bouncing a convoy of german soldiers in trucks and blowing up 3 before anyone had a chance to get out,by the third pass nobody was moving from a convoy of a dozen trucks. He and one other 20 something lad had just killed hundreds of 20 something german lads.

I agree with sascha, nothing clean about any part of WW2.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
30 Apr 2012 #56
I agree , but in comparison with the war in Russia , the desert war was played by the rules...

My father tells of how they would fight during the day , then pack up as the sun went down...if you bumped into the enemy at night , you would just pretend not to notice them...

My father said it went downhill after the Americans joined in.... They started firing at the Germans at night , and the Germans naturally responded....

My father was in the tanks... on one operation their tank got hit , several crew wounded , and they were on their own...

A few hours later a German column showed up..they treated all the wounded , gave the English crew food and water , and then went on their way after wishing them luck.... they had no time to take prisoners...

Can,t imagine that scenario in Russia...
p3undone 8 | 1,135
30 Apr 2012 #57
Sascha,interesting that you would ask what kind of Horror.So Americans die in in a horrific tragedy and I should evaluate conspiracies
and if true, they lessen the horrors for the families and the people who went through it.And this would justify a blanket statement about

Americans as a people?We can go into all kinds of conspiracy theories across the board.So what I think about it is of little importance.

I myself won't forget,does that mean I have to be all consumed by it?No.
sascha 1 | 826
30 Apr 2012 #58
So what I think about it is of little importance.
I myself won't forget,does that mean I have to be all consumed by it?No.

your standpoint as an individual like in so many societies is not important.

if you say horror, think about the families of the 17 victims killed by is yankee lunatic just recently. oh yeah, only 17, but look up how many lives the war cost until now, or let's go to vitenam, where families until today suffer from us chemical bombs used there. is anybody asking them for their 'horror'?

in the big picture there is enough suffering and that 9/11 theatre is not done yet, just a good reason for the admin to play police around the globe and cut your personal freedom wherever they can. think about that too.

poles are cool people. met many of them for many many years and even that germans were the biggest mess up, i never had a problem. that's the slavic soul noone will understand.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
30 Apr 2012 #59
Yes I know blame all the American people,It surely couldn't be our government,And we sure don't have the right to grieve for our citizens

Let's not forget all the merchants from different countries who partook in Vietnam.For somebody who opposes the death penalty you
sure don't mind the death of American citizens.oh yeah that's right that couldn't be because as you said yourself killing isn't justified

for any reason no matter what you say.Even if children are raped and murdered.now here's the part where you mention of how the

American government sanctioned other atrocities.And I'm ashamed that no American citizens opposed the Vietnam war or any other
war or military action for that matter and we don't feel affected by any other horrors in the world.And I'm especially ashamed of

how everyone of our college and university students staunchly supported all these actions.I love the double standards you cherish
Sascha lol.My opinions I'm sure is not nearly as important as yours are to the world governments who perpetuate this elimination of
personal freedoms through subterfuge,agent provocateurs and globalization.I personally think that yank should pay the ultimate price.think about that Sascha. .
sascha 1 | 826
30 Apr 2012 #60
p3, your comment shows only to me that you dont see the bigger picture. maybe one day you will. those comparisments you use are only funny, nothing else.

they show to me only that YOU use double standards, a wide spread style in western world.
i have no double standard at all. of course i feel sorry for EVERY lost life, the point is only how it came that far and how is the particular admin explaining that, sorry sells that.

just one stupid example. us went to libya because of human catastrophe, right?
they went there because of oil. so they killed civilians and soldiers for profit. that's ok? that country is ruined for the next 2-3 generations.

egypt. arabian spring. now ther will be elections where the muslim fundamentals probably get the price. life lost for another totalitarian regime? what did they achieve?

afghanistan. endless war, fights etc. loss of life without any real reason...beside strategy for us.
irak...vietnam...what more???
i condemn every lost life. it seems that the human generation is going backwards. to the middle ages. we fight for oil, next will be water, what then? the most aggressive will survive, maybe...

i dont think that this circle will last forever.

us has that many problems, internally and externally that there is few time to correct it all...time for a change, a REAL change has come...think about that. :)


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