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Upping the speed limit in Poland


delphiandomine 88 | 18,177
2 Nov 2010 #31
It depends which legal limits we're talking about as well. There's a world of difference between doing 30km/h over in a 70 zone, as opposed to doing 30 over on the motorway. One of the major problems in Polish law is that both are punished in the same way - which is clearly nonsense.
Wroclaw Boy
2 Nov 2010 #32
A speeding driver is more likely to have an accident a slow driver to cause one.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
2 Nov 2010 #33
Speed most certainly is a factor. But to say that a person who drives faster than the legal limit is more likely to cause an accident than a person who does not is very simply wrong.

I understand - I'm not claiming that statistically, on an individual basis that there will be a direct correlation but looking at it coldly:

Bad driving exists - careless, aggressive, over cautious etc

Combine bad driving with increased speed and the consequences for road safety are bound to be worse.

That some of the drivers, consequently driving faster as a result of increased speed limits may be good drivers and may never have contributed significantly to road deaths, and may still not, doesn't compensate for the increased likelihood of accidents from the bad drivers.

All I'm saying is that increased speed limits is not the answer.
Wroclaw Boy
2 Nov 2010 #34
All I'm saying is that increased speed limits is not the answer.

have you ever driven on the Autobahns in Germany?
Teffle 22 | 1,321
2 Nov 2010 #35
No, and I was going to add that there may be a case for increased (or even no) limits on motorways. I should have : )

Mind you something tells me that the psychology of drivers in Germany v Poland is different.
kaznoad - | 30
2 Nov 2010 #36
Increasing the speed limit is pointless in my opinion. Whatever "limit" is set will be as equally ignored by the majority of Polish drivers as the current ones. How about actually enforcing the laws that do exist rather than relaxing them because there is no capacity or will power to enforce them? The numbers of deaths on Polish roads is a national disgrace and encouraging people to drive even faster on the existing poor roads will only create an even worse situation.
pgtx 29 | 3,146
2 Nov 2010 #37
Upping the speed limit in Poland

good! more organ donors!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177
2 Nov 2010 #38
and encouraging people to drive even faster on the existing poor roads

But they're not - the speed limits will only increase on expressways and motorways.
kaznoad - | 30
2 Nov 2010 #39
What expressways and motorways? There are hardly any in the country. As I said before the exisiting speed limits are totally ignored by drivers and the Police do not patrol these roads. The proposals sound a recipe for further carnage on Poland's roads. Isn't there enough carnage already?
Velund 1 | 578
2 Nov 2010 #40
the speed limits will only increase on expressways and motorways.

I recently crossed whole country on my way from France to Lithuania. Most of roads that I seen really don't allow higher speeds. Toll part of M2 is rare exclusion.

And Poland was the country where I seen most speed cams during whole trip.

By the way, best expressways I observed during this trip was not autobahns in Germany, it was toll roads in France.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177
2 Nov 2010 #41
I recently crossed whole country on my way from France to Lithuania. Most of roads that I seen really don't allow higher speeds. Toll part of M2 is rare exclusion.

Yup, that's why the higher speed limit will only come in where it's clearly safe to do so.

I don't know why they don't bring in unrestricted speeds for the tolled motorways - anyone that's travelled between Poznan and Nowy Tomysl/Konin knows how absolutely empty they are.
trener zolwia 1 | 939
2 Nov 2010 #42
A speeding driver is more likely to have an accident a slow driver to cause one.

Yep, it's all about staying with the traffic flow. A driver slower than the flow is just as dangerous as a driver that is faster.

This is partly why teens and old folks are the most dangerous drivers. Other reasons too, of course...
kaznoad - | 30
2 Nov 2010 #43
The motorway section you refer to is not empty at all. It has a continual stream of lorries on it which overtake without any notice forcing car drivers to brake hard. I travel on this motorway frequently. Increasing the speed limit will only invite more accidents. It is dangerous enough to drive on already. The proposal to increase the speed limits on Polish roads is ludicrous in the context of the high death toll. Before encouraging even more wreckless, aggressive and inconsiderate Polish drivers to drive even faster than they do now perhaps thought should be given to encouraging safer driving and the observance of the traffic laws.
trener zolwia 1 | 939
2 Nov 2010 #44
Why is it so many Polish peeps don't trust their fellow countrymen to behave like adults?
In the Guns Thread peeps were saying Polish folks couldn't handle them responsibly... here in the Speed Limit Thread peeps are saying the Polish couldn't handle it being increased...

WTH? Have the Polish peeps been nannied so long under Communism that they don't trust themselves to make good decisions? What?
z_darius 14 | 3,965
2 Nov 2010 #45
As for guns, under communism few men did not have to learn how to use them.
kaznoad - | 30
2 Nov 2010 #46
And just what is the "good decision" you have in mind in this instance?
trener zolwia 1 | 939
2 Nov 2010 #47
Only driving faster when conditions dictate it is safe to do so?
Over here we have highways with 55, 65, 75, 85, and I've even seen one with 95MPH (in the middle of nowhere Utah) limits.
Last time I was out on a long roadtrip I got the car up to 130MPH for a short time, on a deserted highway. Nobody got killed.

There's a world of difference between doing 30km/h over in a 70 zone, as opposed to doing 30 over on the motorway. One of the major problems in Polish law is that both are punished in the same way

Is this so? Stupid. Over here fines and suspensions are incremental, tied to the increased speed of the violation.
Maybe 12 | 409
2 Nov 2010 #48
Only Italy has more fatalities on the road than Poland. Which is understandable as Italians are mad. (fun, but utterly nuts). Whilst Polish people are not generally crazy. I have often wondered if it hasn't something to do with the catholic que sera sera mentality.

Alternatively are cars a means for disempowered young men to regain some control and exert some aggression?

And also what about this two way middle lane that seems to exist and why do people with SUV drive right up my arse and flash their lights at me. Why do people with expensive brand new BMW's and Mercs park where ever they want.

In the town where I live, there are three Hummers, several Cayannes, lots and lots of Q7's, X5' X6', GL and ML class Mercs not to mention the plethora of BMW's and Mercs flying around brand spanking new!!!!!! Its like Essex!!!

In the development where I live one of the couples who have a 30 sqm flat and drive a new Porsche Cayanne, what is that about ??????????????

Rant rave, rant, rant rave.......

Up the speed limit let the bastard kill themselves, just well away from me.
trener zolwia 1 | 939
2 Nov 2010 #49
cars a means for disempowered young men to regain some control and exert some aggression?

Yep. Some of that.

In the town where I live, there are three Hummers, several Cayannes, lots and lots of Q7's, X5' X6', GL and ML class Mercs not to mention the plethora of BMW's and Mercs flying around brand spanking new!!!!!!

Wow, Poles are doing pretty well.

Rant rave, rant, rant rave.......

Llol.
z_darius 14 | 3,965
2 Nov 2010 #50
In the development where I live one of the couples who have a 30 sqm flat and drive a new Porsche Cayanne, what is that about ??????????????

he saves on rent so he can afford a better car :)
Maybe 12 | 409
2 Nov 2010 #51
According to our spy ( the maintenance guy) the chap with the Cayanne doesn't even have carpets or proper furniture!!!!

This outward show of 'Face' is crazy.
kaznoad - | 30
2 Nov 2010 #52
"Only driving faster when conditions dictate it is safe to do so". Well that then rules out 99% of all Polish roads - including most of the motorways. Have you ever driven on Polish roads?
trener zolwia 1 | 939
3 Nov 2010 #53
This outward show of 'Face' is crazy.

Yeah, we get some of that here too, mostly in minority communities. Prolly everywhere.

including most of the motorways. Have you ever driven on Polish roads?

No, but aren't the highways (motorways) -where I am guessing the speed limits would be increased- pretty new and modern, in good shape to handle the increased speed?
Maybe 12 | 409
3 Nov 2010 #54
Yeah, we get some of that here too, mostly in minority communities. Prolly everywhere.

Ah you kinda getting close to the truth there and it is painful.
Velund 1 | 578
3 Nov 2010 #55
Why do people with expensive brand new BMW's and Mercs park where ever they want.

Exactly the same problem in Moscow. ;) Any shithead driving some overpriced sparkling new iron bucket with nuts think that it is one step closer to heavens compared to others. ;) And usually ignore any and all parking restrictions as well.

Recently, someone ordered a batch of large permanent stickers with "I'm parking like idiot" text and gave it away to young people who lived in center of city. ;) Some of this stickers was used very well, placed on windshields of various luxury cars parked in 2 rows and blocking buses on one of streets, so that it was impossible to drive until sticker is removed. Glue was really strong. ;)

In the development where I live one of the couples who have a 30 sqm flat and drive a new Porsche Cayanne, what is that about ??????????????

Same question here. Guys who spend almost all that they have as downpayment for a luxury car often drive it just like they have two more as spare near home. ;) Usually it is people who suddenly get much more money that they would imagine in the past and don't know what to do with it. ;)

And yes, here as well some people who rent 40 sqm flat in suburbs but have two $100k+ cars and park it on the street near guarded multi-level parking complex costing only slightly more than $100 per month to rent a box there. ;) And the same people often complain how expensive to live in Moscow... ;)

So, looks like it is not linked to something catholic in the mind... ;) Orthodox shitheads do exactly the same. ;)
trener zolwia 1 | 939
3 Nov 2010 #56
you kinda getting close to the truth there

Usually it is people who suddenly get much more money that they would imagine in the past and don't know what to do with it. ;)

This is what I alluded to. Over here we call this "n*gger rich".
kaznoad - | 30
3 Nov 2010 #57
Some of them are new, but they only have two lanes on which lorries can - and do - overtake at will and without warning. The current speed limit in Poland is already higher than in many, if not most, EU countries, but the traffic saftey and management record in the country is attrocious. It is ludicrous to suggest raising the speed limit in a country which has just about the highest number of road deaths in Europe. What Poland really needs is better roads, more motorways - ideally 3 lane with an additional emergency lane - and more observance of the traffic laws. Only then could one seriously consider raising the speed limit. Much of the A4 motorway in southern Poland for instance does not even have an emergency lane with the obvious consequences. Anyway most of the time on Polish motorways it is impossible to even keep an average speed of over 100 km because of lorries constantly overtaking and blocking the "fast lane". In addition you have some car drivers who sit in the "fast lane" regardless of their own speed and how many cars they are holding up behind them. There is no concept here of using the "fast lane" primarily for overtaking. Cars overtake on either side of you at will and at crazy speeds. The result is that the "fast lane" moves for much of the time only slightly faster than the "slow lane". Does it make sense therefore to increase an already only theoretical speed limit?
Maybe 12 | 409
3 Nov 2010 #58
Over here we call this "n*gger rich".

..to the bone.... ;)
Velund 1 | 578
3 Nov 2010 #59
anyone that's travelled between Poznan and Nowy Tomysl/Konin knows how absolutely empty they are.

No... It was Sunday to Monday night, and there was _lots_ of trucks, driving to west.... I never seen so many before.

Just trying to imagine what was on old roads between Poznan and German border a couple of hours later...
trener zolwia 1 | 939
3 Nov 2010 #60
Some of them are new, but they only have two lanes on which lorries can - and do - overtake at will and without warning. The current speed limit in Poland is already higher than in many, if not most, EU countries, but the traffic saftey and management record in the country is attrocious

Hmm. Interesting.

Over here most of our big highways are six lanes (three in each direction, sometimes more) with emergency shoulders on the sides. Doesn't Poland have any big modern motorways like this?

And we too had a problem with trucks and slow pokes clogging up the passing lane. When common courtesy didn't work states started making laws that one must only use the left lane for passing. Now you even see signs that say 'keep right except to pass' And when there are more than two lanes in one direction trucks are barred from the farthest left passing lane.


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