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Poland A and Ukraine B. Compare how far Poland has advanced.


Harry
5 May 2011 #151
Doesn't British citizen have to be loyal to Great Britain regardless if he is Welsh, Scottish, Irish, English, Pakistanian, Indian, Jamaican etc?

Do they have to swear an oath of allegiance? No they do not.
hubabuba - | 113
5 May 2011 #152
One such great example was the demand that professors at the L'viv university had to swear an oath of allegiance to Poland - which understandably upset the Ukrainian professors.

and how many of Ukr professors were there?do You have any knowledge about that times?in the theatre before,
the movie was played the anthem was sung, it was very, very nationalistic times, not only in Poland

Wilno Voivodship in 1931 had a population of 1,276,000 and (according to the Polish government) was 59.7% Polish

if percentage of Poles was bigger how is this possible, that there were more Czechs or Lithuanians?You make no sensebtw in Wilno the city-percenatge of Lithuanians was 2 %

so many Poles criticise Britain for not doing enough to help Poland.

didi it do anything?

at that time Poland insisted that it was an independent state.

I am asking again are You kidding?is that what they teach You at school?

Poland was fighting Ukr and Soviets and Lithuanians and Czechs in that TIMES, Czechoslovakia did invade some Silesians towns to incorporate them(they didnt manage), Poland was forced to agree with annexation of Zaolzie, in returns Czechoslovakia was supposed to let the transports of help(soldiers, amunition, weapon)pass through their territory to Poland during Pl-Bolshevik war-guess what?they didnt
ShAlEyNsTfOh 4 | 161
5 May 2011 #153
most of belarus is far worse off than ukraina
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,809
5 May 2011 #154
the movie was played the anthem was sung, it was very, very nationalistic times, not only in Poland
if percentage of Poles was bigger how is this possible, that there were more Czechs or Lithuanians?btw in Wilno the city-percenatge of Lithuanians was 2 %

I can play the numbers game too...

In 1905, a census showed that 75% of the population were Germans and 25% Poles.

Didn't stop the Poles from "fighting for Silesias freedom" nor speaking of it as "recovered territories".

So now even as there were less Lithuanians or Ukrainians than Poles in th Lwow area please accept and support their fight for their freedom and independence, would you! What's good for the goose..

Poland was forced to agree with annexation of Zaolzie

Rofl...poor Poland...always the hapless victim....
silent reader
5 May 2011 #155
Do they have to swear an oath of allegiance? No they do not.

That's only you have to say? They don't have to swear an oath of allegiance but that doesn't change a fact that they are obliged to be loyal to the country they live in.

What about the second part of my post? Could you refer to it or you'd like to continue with your rant on Poland?
Harry
5 May 2011 #156
you end up with a figure of about 100 000 Lithuanians in Wilno Voivodship then

OK, and there were 227,399 in the Czechoslovak territory invaded by Poland in 1938. Even the highest Polish estimates claim no more than 140,000 Poles were there in 1921, so even if that number is accurate and all the Polish whining about Poles being forced to leave Czechoslovakia between 1921 and 1938 are inaccurate, we're still left with 87,399 Czechoslovaks. Add them to your 100,000 Lithuanians and we have a figure more than a thousand times higher than the number of Poles who fought in the Battle of Britain.
hubabuba - | 113
5 May 2011 #157
Bratwurst Boy

maybe sth constructive to say?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,809
5 May 2011 #158
Sure...you bring numbers to support your opinion and I bring numbers....:)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
5 May 2011 #159
Didn't stop the Poles from "fighting for Silesias freedom" nor speaking of it as "recovered territories".

Oh come on dont be a bloody revisionist, we both know Germany invaded the region and the so called "majority" were german settlers settling in homes from which you kicked out the locals ie Poles.

And the people fighting for Silesia to join Poland were *gasp* Silesians! Who are also Poles and after 123 years of german occupation were fighting to get back to Poland, sorry but you have no claim whatsoever when it comes to Poznań and Silesia, none.

You invaded it for a century, got booted out and now you're talking like that century makes it german territory seriously BB your arrogance is f*cking epic.

There's a difference between Poles aquiring Lwów and Germans invading Silesia, Poles had Lwów for 500 years and built virtually everything there also they did not invade, they inherited it via dynastic heritage, Germans simply invaded stayed for 3 generations and got kicked out, now people like you drone on how Poznań and Greater Poland is really german territory because you managed to invade and occupy it for a whole century!
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,809
5 May 2011 #160
Oh come on dont be a bloody revisionist,

You know full well that I am a bloody revisionist Sok!

When I meet a nutter as Hubba I can't help myself...

Oh come on dont be a bloody revisionist, we both know Germany invaded the region and the so called "majority" were german settlers settling in homes from which you kicked out the locals ie Poles.

German settlers since 2000 years! :)

And the people fighting for Silesia to join Poland were *gasp* Silesians! Who are also Poles and after 123 years of german occupation were fighting to get back to Poland, sorry but you have no claim whatsoever when it comes to Poznań and Silesia, none.

75% Germans, only 25% Poles!

You invaded it for a century, got booted out and now you're talking like that century makes it german territory seriously BB your arrogance is f*cking epic.

Still you love me! :)

The rest is crap! Where you whine about one Lwow, you got many of great towns and villages from the Germans!
Harry
5 May 2011 #161
Poles had Lwów for 500 years and built virtually everything there

Very much like Stettin.

Oh, sorry, I think I got that the wrong way round.
silent reader
5 May 2011 #162
Could you refer to it or you'd like to continue with your rant on Poland?

So you going to ignore me and keep on ranting?
gumishu 11 | 5,017
5 May 2011 #163
Add them to your 100,000 Lithuanians and we have a figure more than a thousand times higher than the number of Poles who fought in the Battle of Britain.

the figure is perhaps hundreds times more than a numeber of all allied people fighting in the Battle of Britain - what is that arguement about -

- btw Winston Churchill once uttered these words: Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. - it appears these few Polish fighter pilots in the Battle of Britain (30?) mattered (I don't claim Churchill meant only Polish fighter pilots of course)
Koala 1 | 332
5 May 2011 #164
I can play the numbers game too...
Didn't stop the Poles from "fighting for Silesias freedom" nor speaking of it as "recovered territories".

So now even as there were less Lithuanians or Ukrainians than Poles in the Lwow area please accept and support their fight for their freedom and independence, would you! What's good for the goose..

You play the game, but you play it wrong. The territorial split on Silesia was supposed to be decided by poll, which Germans tried to manipulate by including people who no longer lived in Silesia. Keep in mind that Poles on Silesia had little to zero material support from Polish government - they fought on their own as they did not want to be a part of Germany and putting "fighting for freedom" in sarcastic quotation marks is very disingenious of you. The eventual split of the region mostly reflected actual ethnical split, IIRC Germany wound up with 79% of Upper Silesia.

I agree, well almost:]exceptions would be Lwów and Grodno, It just saddens me because there is not much of Poland in Poland now, I mean the architecture,

Wilno was Polish and deeply rooted in our culture, too. :( (I w Ostrej świecisz Bramie)
But what's gone is gone and we can't claim them to be Polish anymore.

Not this old chestnut again. For the umpteenth time, Poland was fighting neither the Soviets nor the Russians nor the Germans at the time when the Czechoslovaks enforced the interim agreement which Poland and Czechoslovakia had agreed in 1918 (and which Polish forces had broken the very next day by invading territory which Poland had agreed to be part of Czechoslovakia at least until a final agreement was reached).

This is just wrong. The territorial split was again supposed to be decided by poll, but Czech army entered Zaolzie in January 1919 and after a brief period of fights claimed control of the region.

The rest is crap! Where you whine about one Lwow, you got many of great towns and villages from the Germans!

You lost the war that you started. Deal with it.
Ironside 48 | 9,843
5 May 2011 #165
Very much like Stettin.

Nobody deny that Poland had no claims to Stettin, give us back eastern border from 1939 and you can take Schnitzel as your personal dukedom.
Catherine II was from there = partition = justices !
gumishu 11 | 5,017
5 May 2011 #166
In 1905, a census showed that 75% of the population were Germans and 25% Poles.

you mean where??
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,809
5 May 2011 #167
The territorial split on Silesia was supposed to be decided by poll, which Germans tried to manipulate by including people who no longer lived in Silesia.

Crap! Germans had nothing to fear from a poll....they were the far majority.

And who do you think supported and financed the so called polish uprisings in the coal rich mines? Who wanted them so badly? Warsaw!

The eventual split of the region mostly reflected actual ethnical split, IIRC Germany wound up with 79% of Upper Silesia.

It was not as easy as all towns were predominantly German, contrary to the surrounding farms, which were mostly polish.
There wasn't a clear border.

Wilno was Polish and deeply rooted in our culture, too. :( (I w Ostrej świecisz Bramie)
But what's gone is gone and we can't claim them to be Polish anymore.

Well...good for you!

You lost the war that you started. Deal with it.

We are not planning to reclaim anything either...
gumishu 11 | 5,017
5 May 2011 #168
give us back eastern border from 1939 and you can take Schnitzel as your personal dukedom.

well if you intend to live in Lvov go ahead and don't mix the rest of Polish population into your personal affair
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,809
5 May 2011 #169
you mean where??

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia#Demographics

Before the Second World War, Silesia was inhabited mostly by Germans and Poles, in addition to German and Polish Jews and Czechs. In 1905, a census showed that 75% of the population were Germans and 25% Poles.

Sokrates 8 | 3,346
5 May 2011 #170
German settlers since 2000 years! :)

In Poznań? Rubbish, if you said Wrocław then i'd agree but Poznań had a polish majority through all of its history so whats your point?

75% Germans, only 25% Poles!

After you booted Poles and settled Germans there, i'm sorry if i do not recognize a majority forcefully settled there, so if i invade Berlin, kick Germans out and settle in Poles thats a polish city then? Some messed up logic you've got.
Koala 1 | 332
5 May 2011 #171
Crap! Germans had nothing to fear from a poll....they were the far majority.

And who do you think supported and financed the so called polish uprisings in the coal rich mines? Who wanted them so badly? Warsaw!

The border was to be determined by gmina by gmina case (what's the English equivalent of gmina? County?), not all or nothing. Eastern parts of Silesia were predominantly Polish and obviously the German government wanted those parts as well. These people wanted to be a part of Poland, there were 3 uprisings in 3 consecutive years, they wanted it that much. Is that really so hard to understand?

Support from Warsaw? You've got to be kidding. The situation on the eastern front was so dire that they relly had no resources to commit over a few tiny regions.
Ironside 48 | 9,843
5 May 2011 #172
well if you intend to live in Lvov go ahead and don't mix the rest of Polish population into your personal affair

Ah !dry up mishu ! As if your views counted for more .....
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,809
5 May 2011 #173
After you booted Poles and settled Germans there,

You've got to be kidding!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Silesia

Germanic tribes were first recorded within Silesia in the 1st century.

In the Middle Ages, Silesia was divided among many independent duchies ruled by various Silesian dukes of the Piast dynasty. During this time, cultural and ethnic German influence increased due to immigrants from the German-speaking components of the Holy Roman Empire.

Silesia subsequently became a possession of the Crown of Bohemia under the Holy Roman Empire in the 14th century, and passed with that Crown to the Habsburg Monarchy in 1526. The Duchy of Crossen was inherited by Margraviate of Brandenburg in 1476 and, with the renunciation by King Ferdinand I and estates of Bohemia in 1538, it became an integral part of Brandenburg.

In 1742, most of Silesia was seized by King Frederick the Great of Prussia in the War of the Austrian Succession and subsequently made the Prussian Province of Silesia.

After World War I, parts of Silesia were transferred to the Second Polish Republic and administered as the Silesian Voivodeship. A plebiscite recorded the majority of the population of all of Upper Silesia wished to remain part of Germany.

Predominantly german for 2000 years...you were saying?
gumishu 11 | 5,017
5 May 2011 #174
gumishu:
well if you intend to live in Lvov go ahead and don't mix the rest of Polish population into your personal affair

Ah !dry up mishu ! As if your views counted for more .....

my views are shared by the vast majority of Polish population who don't give a damn about Lwów, Wilno or Grodno - only care for those Poles left behind there (like in Lithuania)

what's the English equivalent of gmina? County?

I think it's parish (or borrough)
Ironside 48 | 9,843
5 May 2011 #175
Wow that is a quite a claim ! What don't you take part in election and become president or something.
Most people do not care about it, because they think that getting Lwow back would be impossible......
Harry
5 May 2011 #176
didi it do anything?

Nothing apart from a six-year long war. Oh and attacked German forces while Polish forces ran from German forces.

is that what they teach You at school?

You think that Poland is important enough for its history to be taught at schools anywhere other than Poland? Good joke!

Poland was fighting Ukr and Soviets and Lithuanians and Czechs in that TIMES, Czechoslovakia did invade some Silesians towns to incorporate them(they didnt manage),

So at that particular time Poland wasn't fighting the Russians or the Soviets or the Germans, despite your claim that they were. And Czech forces actually went in to enforce the agreement after Poland broke it. Polish forces were the ones who made a land grab the day after the treaty was signed (just as they did with Lithuania).

in returns Czechoslovakia was supposed to let the transports of help(soldiers, amunition, weapon)pass through their territory to Poland during Pl-Bolshevik war-guess what?they didnt

A very interesting claim. Can you perhaps tell us where that was agreed? Was it at the Spa conference?

a fact that they are obliged to be loyal to the country they live in.

No they are not, they can be as disloyal as they want (provided that they are not treasonous).

So you going to ignore me and keep on ranting?

Happy to ignore you but I fear I'll have to refuse your request that I rant.

The territorial split was again supposed to be decided by poll, but Czech army entered Zaolzie in January 1919

And why did they do that? Because Poland was exercising sovereign rule in the disputed area despite having agreed not to.
Ironside 48 | 9,843
5 May 2011 #177
Oh and attacked German forces

with what a foul language ?
hubabuba - | 113
5 May 2011 #178
I can play the numbers game too...

Rofl...poor Poland...always the hapless victim....

how is that constructive/bringing numbers??oh sorry then You throw Silesia out of the blue

Very much like Stettin.

no point in talking with You, You are simply biased

Still you love me! :)

did I miss sth between You two?

Where you whine about one Lwow, you got many of great towns and villages from the Germans

Lwow and Warsaw (to lesser extent Krakow) had always been the most important cities for Poland, and Warsaw is not Warsaw anymore, Lwow is outside of Poland, we are left wtih little Krakow, this is why there is so much whining about Lwow.And it is not only about Lwow, there are many towns left on the East, and I prefer them to the claimed German ones. There is so little of Polish architecture in Poland...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,809
5 May 2011 #179
how is that constructive/bringing numbers??oh sorry then You throw Silesia out of the blue

You brought numbers to show the claim Poland has on lost eastern territories...I did the same with the gained western territories.
Of course, where your math was met with widespread approval, my numbers were not...surprise, surprise!

did I miss sth between You two?

You have no idea! :)

Lwow is outside of Poland, we are left wtih little Krakow,

Krakow is nice too, be happy about that!

To go to war about cities and lands was what brought so much catastrophes to our peoples. It's no use....
Koala 1 | 332
5 May 2011 #180
Of course, where your math was met with widespread approval, my numbers were not...surprise, surprise!

You presented them in the wrong context, no surprise here.

And why did they do that? Because Poland was exercising sovereign rule in the disputed area despite having agreed not to.

Parliament election is hardly exercising sovereign rule. The bottom line of the 1919-20 affair is that Czechoslovakia robbed the regions where Poles were ethnical majority of the option to choose their preferred country. How is that OK for local people?

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