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Poland: A Successful case of low criminality in Europe?


OP Levi_BR 6 | 219
1 Apr 2015 #31
What does that have to do with the present?

In the present, the Other countries reached Poland in the same standard of Human Rights.

So Poland, today, in terms of human rights, is no different than the most progressive countries.

Dont confuse progress with stupidities like the Swedes adding the "Third gender teaching" obligatory for kids or the the Swedes obligating people to celebrate Ramadan and banishing their own flag because the cross on it offend muslims.

Poland is a progressive country. But not a stupid country.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
1 Apr 2015 #32
So Poland, today, in terms of human rights, is no different than the most progressive countries.

I cannot find a single post in this thread which claims that Poland is less developed in terms of human rights than other countries. What are you referring to, Levi?

He's referring to your comment #31.

Huh? Please show me where I said that Poland is not as developed as the west in terms of its human rights situation. Poland was ahead, now most of the west has caught up and they are all comparable. What's your problem? Aaaah ... I see ...

It turned out that I'm "always attacking" and that I "always resort to being so aggressive towards foreigners on this forum", according to Harry the article concerning rape in Polish law is in "the wrong chapter", apparently, and you dissed it too by asking "What does that have to do with the present?" and implying that present day Poland is in the Middle Ages, apparently.

Wonder why people think you're too aggressive... :)

You wrote "What does that (Poland's progressive laws in the past) have to do with the present?" and then you went on about the Muslim world being the leader in science in the Middle Ages ending with a comment "and look at them now". It clearly looked like a comparison of Poland and the Muslim world.

You don't get it, do you? The past of the Muslim world has nothing to do with how it looks today (only in certain areas, of course). Same for Poland: if you were on the forefront of human rights in Europe 50 years ago or 500 years ago doesn't matter. There is no difference between Poland and western Europe in this respect anymore. What is negative about this?

Stop being such a wuss, Paulina, really. Not every comment about Poland is meant negatively, not every criticism of Poland is anti-Polish. That's exactly the problem that you, some other Poles and a handful of nationalist Polonia nutters have: you take everything personal and far too serious. Jeez.
Marsupial - | 886
2 Apr 2015 #33
It definately is a low crime society. Let's keep it that way. I will say this based upon observation from several fences and experience. If there was no stats to support this I would still have the same view. I make no predictions for the future.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,781
2 Apr 2015 #34
If it is such a low crime society how come so many people advise you to not travel by train?

oh and the lock up car parks - is that because of the low crime too?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
2 Apr 2015 #35
There's no question that Poland has relatively lower crime than other European countries. I live in a village, and a few weeks ago we had some builders around to do a few days' work. Overnight they left ladders lying on the ground, as well as scaffolding. When we were building, about six years ago, we left 20,000PLN of roofing material on the ground for two weeks without anyone living there. I'm not saying more populated places don't have problems, but out here, "where the dogs bark out of their arses", we fear no evil.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
2 Apr 2015 #36
Actually after i read this discussion i decided to rank, between the countries that i had travelled recently, those that i felt safer.

It always depends what places you visit (big cities or countryside for example), how big your budget is, if you travel in a group or with locals, how comfortable you are to communicate in the local language, and many other factors. My experience is that as long as you are aware what's going on around you, nothing much will really happen. Of course, if you run into a gang area without knowing it then you're screwed no matter what. By the way: I was surprised that you put NZ on the top spot of your list. New Zealand in general and the North Island in particular has a huge gang, crime and drug problem, but as a tourist you might not notice it right away. You have to live there.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Apr 2015 #37
If some shady type or types were to approach one on the street, is one better off saying something in English or some other foreign tongue (not Russian of course!)? In terms of Polish psychology, would that be a detrrent or an encouragement to potential attackers? Has anything changed in this respect since the commie era? My imrpession is that back then accosting a foreign visitor would be viewed and dealt with more seriously by the law.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
2 Apr 2015 #38
If some shady type or types were to approach one on the street, is one better off saying something in English or some other foreign tongue (not Russian of course!)?

It depends on the area. When i lived in Bytom, it actually saved me when I started speaking English to a group that came towards me. It was pretty clear that they were looking for trouble. When they asked where i am from they turned out to be extremely friendly and welcoming when i answered that I am from Germany. This area of Bytom is still Ruch Chorzow territory and Ruch supporters / ultras do embrace the fact that "Koenigshuette - Chorzow" and "Beuthen - Bytom" used to be part of Germany. I am not sure if it would have helped me if I was from England or anywhere else in that case.

Generally though, I would not recommend to start speaking English if you are being approached by a shady character. In this case in Bytom there was nowhere else for me to go so it was either see what was going to happen or come across overly confident. Not recommended though. Better to try to walk away, if you still can.

My imrpession is that back then accosting a foreign visitor would be viewed and dealt with more seriously by the law.

Anything would have been dealt with more serious back then. In Belarus they still uphold these police state "values". I have never felt safer in any other country I have ever visited. But that also means that you have to live with police at every corner and total control, even in the most private parts of your life. I think that there are not too many Poles who would want that back.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
2 Apr 2015 #39
You don't get it, do you? The past of the Muslim world has nothing to do with how it looks today (only in certain areas, of course). Same for Poland: if you were on the forefront of human rights in Europe 50 years ago or 500 years ago doesn't matter.

It does matter and I explained in full length why it matters - because of prejudices and stereotypes of Westerners about Poland and in smurf's case - about Catholic countries.

There is no difference between Poland and western Europe in this respect anymore.

Levi didn't write that there is. So, again - what was the point of your comment? You misunderstood him?
Here's Levi's comment:
"Very good point to remember that, Paulina. Sometimes people talk with a total unjustified tone about a traditional catholic country like Poland, and forget that this same country was years ahead of all the "Progressive West Europe" in terms of human basic rights."

Do you understand now why he wrote it?
Poland today is a traditionally Catholic country, but it also was a traditionally Catholic country in 1932.
And smurf wrote: "Sure, it wasn't so long ago that in Ireland rape couldn't be committed if it occurred within marriage. I'm pretty sure it was similar in other traditionally Catholic countries."

This discussion developed because of this comment written by smurf.

What is negative about this?

I've explained how I interpreted what you wrote. And how probably Levi understood it too. If you didn't mean that then that's good, although I still don't know why you wrote that comment considering Levi didn't claim that Poland is now at the forefront of human rights in Europe.

Stop being such a wuss, Paulina, really. Not every comment about Poland is meant negatively, not every criticism of Poland is anti-Polish. That's exactly the problem that you, some other Poles and a handful of nationalist Polonia nutters have: you take everything personal and far too serious. Jeez.

OK, TheOther, I will quote you on that next time Polonius3 or I or any other Pole will write that the over-representation of Jews among the MBP directors in 1944-1954 is a historical fact :) If you stop being such wussies and stop treating every comment about Jews and every criticism of Jews/Israel/Israelis as "Polish anti-Semitism" then I'll stop being "a wuss" too :) Because that's exactly the problem that you, some other Westerners and a handful of PF's nutters have: you take everything personal and far too serious. Jeez.

I'll tell you why its safe now...Its because all your drunks, druggies, junkies, criminals have all moved to the uk and not just yours the whole of eastern Europe

You see, another nice Westerner :)

Again, you can't speak without getting personal.

OMG xD Do I write Chinese here or something...

What's your point do you think I'm responsible for passing laws in Ireland? If so, you are mistaken.

My point is that I'm praising* your country - Ireland. Sorry for getting "personal" - I won't compliment your country ever again, I promise :))

I wrote that traditionally Catholic Ireland was ahead of Anglican England. It was a positive comment, smurf.
I wrote that because you're anti-Catholic.

*praise:
dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/praise

You may not have read the full topic but if you do care to read it all I ever stated was that statistics are rarely as cut and dry as people think they are.

You know, smurf, somehow, on this forum, statistics are questioned only when they say something good about Poland vs the West. Meaning: Poland just can't be better in anything than the West according to Westerners here.

But I didn't take issue with what you wrote about statistics but about marital rape criminalization in Catholic countries.

Not really

"Not really"? Are you saying that I don't have the right to criticize people on this forum? Westerners have this right, but I don't? lol

it's a bit weird that you have so much hatred for foreigners who dare criticise this place we all call home.

I don't have hate for foreigners who criticise Poland. I only point out prejudices.
How TheOther put it? "Stop being such a wuss", smurf :)

You may need to read the topic again, I wasn't even criticising your precious homeland, just the way that the OP was presenting the statistics.

And I was criticising your comment about Catholic countries.

Well, how come I've found the answer?
You didn't even acknowledge that. You're welcome.

That wasn't an answer to what I was curious about. I was curious why there's such a difference between Sweden and Norway in this respect despite the fact that both are Scandinavian countries with similar culture and both traditionally Lutheran.

That Pole who lived in Sweden gave me the answer, you didn't.

That's a statement about it right there.

By "statement" I meant something like your comment about Catholic countries and marital rape: "I'm pretty sure". You accused me of being hypocritical but I didn't behave the way you did. All I wrote was that I'm curious and there's nothing wrong or prejudiced about being curious.

Anyway, any chance that you might get back on topic instead of just getting your knickers in a knot as per usual? *deep breaths, slow deep breaths

If it wasn't for your jab at Catholic countries we wouldn't be even having this conversation.
Funny that when Harry or any other Westerner is "getting his knickers in a knot as per usual" about some anti-Semitic/racist/etc. comment no Westerner (including you) is getting so patronising with him.

You lack objectivity.

If you'd like to have another full page of a off-topic rant maybe go to the off topic thread?

The moment when you write the same thing to Harry or any other Westerner when he or she will have full pages of an off-topic rant because of someone's anti-Semitic comment. OK? For the time being I'll write here, unless mods will move our discussion to the Random.

Perfectly sums up the situation.

You know, in the past when I was objecting to some unfair and generalising comments about Poles or Poland on this forum I was being called "oversensitive", "defensive", "thin-skinned" or at best I was being advised to "brush it off". There was absolutely no empathy or understanding shown by most of the Westerners here despite the fact that it was that really nasty period of PF when threads about "Polish sluts/wh0res" and God knows what esle were in abundance here.

I don't claim that "every comment about Poland is meant negatively" or that "every criticism of Poland is anti-Polish". But I do observe the patterns of behaviour of some Westerners on this forum and I make conclusions.

My conclusion was and still is: some Westerners here have a problem with Poles writing positive things about Poland or Polish history. It's as if it has to be met almost every time with retaliation - making some negative comment, digging up some dirt and there's even an example in this thread - Harry's comment about the name of the chapter in Polish law.

And look at rozumiemnic's comments on this page. Classic :)
There's also another phenomenon - writing that Poland is better in something than some Western countries or, God forbid, the UK :), is unacceptable here, at least if it's coming from a Pole.

Smurf, you think that you guys don't react when a Pole or someone else is writing, in your opinion, unfair or prejudiced comments about your countries/the West/your people? Of course that Westerners react. They're "getting their knickers in a knot", as you put it, too. I've seen it many times on this forum. You guys just aren't objective and emphatic enough to realise it, apparently.

As if no Pole living in the UK or USA would ever criticise where they live.

They do and some even did it here on PF and they were getting pretty aggressive reactions :)

If it is such a low crime society how come so many people advise you to not travel by train?

I've never been advised this - I've travelled by train quite a few times, including during nightime and nothing bad happened to me.

oh and the lock up car parks - is that because of the low crime too?

My dad's cars were always on a freely accessible car park and they were never stolen, no matter whether it was a communist "maluch" or a brand new car. I don't know, maybe it is more likely to have a car stolen in Poland than in... well... I don't know where... you probably mean the UK? :) However, perhaps Poland in general is a safer country, just as smurf wrote on page 1.

Why would you have a problem with Poland being a low crime country, roz? Would that somehow hurt you personally? Or maybe you had some terrible experiences in Poland or sth?
NocyMrok
3 Apr 2015 #40
I should have added: poor law enforcement and poor crime recording as possible contributing factors to a low crime rate.

This is simply bollocks. Poland isn't a 3rd World country, is EU member and meets european standards in every aspect therefore i could say that the amount of crimes reported in Sweden is too low due "poor law enforcement and poor crime recording".

Thanks, That's another contributing cause: underreporting.

What about overreporting by women that want to gain/achieve something by lie?
Harry
3 Apr 2015 #41
Rozmiemnic even wrote that Poles want to prevent Muslims from settling in Poland

You wish to deny that some Poles do want to prevent Muslims from settling in Poland? Oh dear; are you ever going to learn that its a really bad idea to automatically jump to attack any foreigner who says anything negative about Poland? All you do then is make yourself look foolish.

i could say that the amount of crimes reported in Sweden is too low due "poor law enforcement and poor crime recording".

You could, but you'd be completely wrong. If anything the number of crimes reported by Swedish police (and British police) is too high, due to poor priorities in law enforcement and poor methods of crime recording. In Sweden if a woman goes to the police and complains that a man gave her crabs, he's charged with sexual assault; in Poland she'd most probably be told to be more careful who she goes to bed with. In the UK if a woman goes to the police and says she can't remember shagging a bloke, the police charge him with rape; can anybody imagine that happening in Poland?!
OP Levi_BR 6 | 219
5 Apr 2015 #42
You wish to deny that some Poles do want to prevent Muslims from settling in Poland?

If they want to avoid imigrants to build mosques funded by Saudi Wahabbi (which is, by the way, the most radical version of Islam) money, what is their problem? Political Correctness?

Defend the Polish Constitution and avoid a alien legal system (Sharia) which allows Childrem Rape, Jyzia, and Stoning of everyone that decides to be a Catholic IS NOT A CRIME.
Lolek222 - | 80
5 Apr 2015 #43
You wish to deny that some Poles do want to prevent Muslims from settling in Poland?

Poles have right to choose what kinds immigrants they would like to see it their own country. If they don't want Muslim who would be integrating badly and cause problems in the future what gives you right to make it sound as if it was something wrong?

Might be Poles are more open and less contrary. In Other countries people are pretending to be something they rare not hence angers issues simmering right under the surface.

Venting them here must be helpful to some miserable and bitter folk.
Wulkan - | 3,251
5 Apr 2015 #44
In the UK if a woman goes to the police and says she can't remember shagging a bloke, the police charge him with rape

hahaha, no, they don't

If they want to avoid imigrants to build mosques funded by Saudi Wahabbi (which is, by the way, the most radical version of Islam) money, what is their problem?

There is no problem.

Poles have right to choose what kinds immigrants they would like to see it their own country. If they don't want Muslim who would be integrating badly and cause problems in the future what gives you right to make it sound as if it was something wrong?

He makes it sound like it is wrong because he knows his own country is infested by Muslim to such degree that is irreversible and out of jealousy he wants the same fate for Poland.
OP Levi_BR 6 | 219
5 Apr 2015 #45
Exactly what i think. Sometimes i think that most Brits have Envy of how safe a country like Poland (which have a homogeneous culture, and that should not be confused with anti-immigration, but with assimilation of Immigrants) compared to the Multiculturalist messes of West Europe.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
5 Apr 2015 #46
You guys don't think. Poland has lost millions of educated people who emigrated over the past decades, the birth rate of the country is dangerously low, and in most segments the economy is still not competitive on the world market. The only reasons that currently allows Poland to brag about being the only country in the EU with a growing economy is the combination of a well educated workforce and low wages. Take away the first through emigration and you are in trouble, take away the second by increasing wages and you're toast. Poland will have no choice but to open up to immigration if she wants to play an important role in Europe.
OP Levi_BR 6 | 219
5 Apr 2015 #47
At Least i never said that i was against immigration. What i said (and this goes totally in line with the subject of the topic) is that a country should have the RIGHT to select what kind of immigrant it receives.

While countries like France or United Kingdom are immerse in Huge Violence and cultural clashes because they received every kind of immigrant, Poland Can follow the other way.

Attract skilled well-educated highly adapted immigrants with a culture that goes in line with the Polish values.

Example: Educated Ukrainians doctors going out from their war-torn country, Creative South-Koreans engineers wishing to open their startup in a country with plenty of UE money, Skilled Brazilians statistician trying to escape a repressive neo-communist government, Chilean Investors wishing to put money in the economy and there the list goes.

That is pretty different of attract immigrants from Countries like [I Cannot nominate the countries or the admins will ban me for "racism"] withou any skill, to be unemployed living in Welfare and spreading radical religious ideas contrary to the Values of Poland.
Gosc1234567
5 Apr 2015 #48
What an amount of BS written by racist Levi, who does not even live in Poland, UK or France! If there is no immigration to Poland, it is NOT because Poland does not want immigrants but because foreigners prefer to move to richer countries, including UK and France, countries you don't know but hate (logical?:) where they can get much higher salaries and benefits. Poland is too poor to attract foreigners. As as to EU's money you seem to fancy, be aware that it is paid mostly by 1. Germany's 2. France's and 3. UK's taxipayers, among whom a lot of immigrants.

If the choice is between Western Europe and countries like Poland, 99.99% of people will choose Western Europe to have a better life and better opportunities. A further proof: millions of Poles prefer to live in the West and it's easy to understand why.

It is simply disguting to read such racists as you are!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
5 Apr 2015 #49
They say "coś za coś", possibly translatable as "everything has its downside (and upside)". In this case, perhaps Poland's relative poverty is a blessing in disguise. All the rich countries attracting waves of Third World, especially Muslim immigrants have had to pay dearly for multi-culti. Many of the unassimilable newcomers set up hermetic ethnic neighbourhoods, try to impose their values on the host society and take over...or else!
Gosc1234567
5 Apr 2015 #50
PS: Poland shall never been attractive to foreigners also because of lousy climate (today snow and not unusal at this time of the year), difficult language, people being sad, conservatism due to religion. An American colleague of mine says in Poland he feels claustrophobic and it can be true when used to broad-minded societies. Poland is and shall always be a country from which people flee and that is it as it is not attractive. Sure Poland has improved THANKS to western money but western countries (Poland cannot make it on its own) shall always be ahead, no matter what! That's the way and koniec!
Crow 139 | 8,280
5 Apr 2015 #51
Let me inform my Polish sisters and brothers that their panovie cyber thiefs coming to my country and rob the people`s electronic money. i suppose Polish police is that good that thiefs from Poland must go out in order to live decent lives. On the other side, i am happy to note that are we Slavs still connected, at least via cyber thiefs. Seams that they don`t accept borders.
Gosc1234567
5 Apr 2015 #52
Polonius: what you call "immigrants" have been living in western Europe for 2 or sometimes 3 generations so can't be really be called "'immigrants" and most of them are completely integrated. Nevermind that, Polishforums have become a tribune for fascists and racists. Besides, Poles who move to western Europe to get better conditions that at home don't seem to mind living in mutlicultural societies ;).

Rich and free countries attract people from all over the world whereas those poorer don't and it should be easy to understand.
Wulkan - | 3,251
5 Apr 2015 #53
Poland does not want immigrants but because foreigners prefer to move to richer countries,

And we are very happy about their choice.

Poles who move to western Europe to get better conditions that at home don't seem to mind living in mutlicultural societies

This is the main reason why most of them plan to come back to their motherland one day.
Crow 139 | 8,280
5 Apr 2015 #54
And we are very happy about their choice.

when we are at it, i noticed that Romanians prefer west of Europe, not Poland.

This is the main reason why most of them plan to come back to their motherland one day.

wise.
Wulkan - | 3,251
5 Apr 2015 #55
We were talking about third world immigrationg
TheOther 6 | 3,818
5 Apr 2015 #56
This is the main reason why most of them plan to come back to their motherland one day.

I'm interested - especially if there is a net inflow or outflow of people to and from Poland at the moment. Any links? Thanks.

In this case, perhaps Poland's relative poverty is a blessing in disguise.

Only if you want to keep Poland relatively poor forever would you (maybe) have a point. But Poland is not an island somewhere in the middle of nowhere. The country is member of the Schengen area, and once it becomes economically attractive in comparison to western nations, you will not prevent people of all backgrounds from moving into Poland. Poland will have no chance to avoid that unless they want to leave the EU, and I guarantee you that will not happen.
Wulkan - | 3,251
5 Apr 2015 #57
I'm interested - especially if there is a net inflow or outflow of people to and from Poland at the moment. Any links?

I clearly said "plan". For instance a lot of people plan to become rich one day but very few succeed.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
5 Apr 2015 #58
I clearly said "plan".

Yes, but how do you come to that conclusion? Have you seen a statistics that backs up your claim? Honest question.
Wulkan - | 3,251
5 Apr 2015 #59
Have you seen a statistics that backs up your claim?

I have seen statements in the media and spoke to the people over here, I can't guarantee that you can find the numbers in google.
Crow 139 | 8,280
5 Apr 2015 #60
We were talking about third world immigrationg

oh, thanks for clarification. Yes. People from exotic places don`t see Poland as their most desirable destination. For now.

When EU becomes one country situation will change. Somebody would conclude that Poland have wast land with small population.


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