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Schools in Poland to strike tomorrow


10iwonka10 - | 401
26 Apr 2019  #211
@mafketis

I agree- not good idea.

So we will end up with Ukrainian teachers - they can relatively quickly learn polish.
kaprys 1 | 1,665
26 Apr 2019  #212
Well, as far as I know teachers shouldn't even have a speech defect so that kids don't pick it up from them so having teachers with a foreign accent could be interesting.

Also why would anyone come here to work for so little money?
10iwonka10 - | 401
26 Apr 2019  #213
I think these are catastrophic versions when our teachers leave !!!:-(

Not sure children would pick accent from teacher? I guess they pick it from parents , friends when growing up.
mafketis 17 | 6,875
26 Apr 2019  #214
Also why would anyone come here to work for so little money?

Well not many might... which means either not enough teachers or school closures and not enough kids being educated, but PiS has an election to buy so money for retirees and the bribeable comes first!
pawian 153 | 8,369
26 Apr 2019  #215
Well instruction in English will certainly have a catstrophic effect. Poland could be like India or Nigeria or the Phillipines..... yay?

Poland can`t be like those countries for a number of reasons. Besides, who said that all instruction will be in English? :)

Well not many might...

Don`t worry about foreign guys coming to teach in Poland. - it is obvious that confronted with a catastrophic shortage of teachers, the future government will have to raise salaries.
OP Dougpol1 27 | 2,641
27 Apr 2019  #216
So why not now? Generally speaking, in the Uk the public sector pay is 2.5 or 3 times what it is in Poland. Teachers start at a minimum 22,500 pounds (100,000zl) and in the sciences they start on a Golden Hello, and even then Brits are leaving the profession in growing numbers because they have no private life. Iwonka's post from wherever about teachers no necessarily working more than 40 hours is a seriously bad joke because teachers often have to spend Sundays marking students' work, and that's a cast iron fact - no matter how dedicated they be, sometimes they are behind schedule.

Terri says teachers should be paid 3,500 zl as an absolute minimum. From the above facts on GDP as opposed to western Europe it is clear that she is absolutely on the money, and there is NO excuse at all for PIS trying to deny the fact.

Teachers and the public sector have to grow some balls in the the autumn and hold this government to ransom for fair pay.

the future government will have to raise salaries.

So why not now? Generally speaking, the Uk has GDP between 2.5 and 3 times that of Poland. Teachers start at a minimum 22,500 pounds (100,000zl) and in the sciences they start on a Golden Hello, and Polish state sector salaries absolutely should mirror that.
10iwonka10 - | 401
27 Apr 2019  #217
I think everything needs some balance. I would believe some young ,dedicated teachers spend lots time on preparations/checking tests but there are also lots teachers doing bare minimum. How does PE teacher spend these 40 hours, exactly??

I don't want to offend you but I have impression that you are dedicated Guardian reader and Trade Unions supporter....lots of exaggerating and dramas and want, want....should be....

I can't compare it to UK - how many hours teachers work a week but I believe more than in Poland and classes are much bigger ( I guess that is why it is need for teachers' assistants). Plus it is like everywhere in budget salaries- 22.5 K start salary in London it is starving salary but in poor north town it is good salary.
OP Dougpol1 27 | 2,641
27 Apr 2019  #218
In London the starting salary is 28 thou Iwona - and I am not a trade unionist, but I do believe in collective bargaining and all this talk of "some teachers do nothing" obviously serves its purpose. As others have said, with a dedicated inspector of schools and continuous improvement, high salaries are achievable. But the government here would rather propogate mediocrity.

Schools here also have 30 plus pupils, so I don't see a difference in class sizes. Am I wrong? And of course, with the constant test, teach, test nature of Polish school curriculums, teachers do have to mark papers late into the night.

I have been married to a dedicated (ex) teacher for 30 something years now, and her team was as hard working as she was.
There is absolutely no excuse for it (low pay) and people should fight for their positions and with-hold their cooperation until the authority sees sense.

That's what teachers in the UK did, and this is no different.
mafketis 17 | 6,875
27 Apr 2019  #219
Teaching is not like working in a store or office or factory. It's not about putting in X number of hours a week, but about carrying out specific tasks, of which classroom teaching is only part.

People that respect education realize that teachers are professionals who play an important role in the smooth functioning of society, even if some teachers aren't that great.

People who don't respect education think of teachers as semi-skilled grunts who should be paid by time (as in an office or factory or store) even if, as often happens the teacher spends more time preparing, grading etc than by the blackboard.

Standardizing teacher times is the enemy of real education.
10iwonka10 - | 401
27 Apr 2019  #220
It's not about putting in X number of hours a week,

I am not sure what you mean about specific tasks? Big part of teaching is ...'teaching'- I think that the big satisfaction for teacher is to see result.

-teacher of polish language ...:result: students read lots, are well spoken, good at interpreting literature.
- math teacher...students are good at any calculations, logical thinking.....,
- foreign language teacher - student are able to communicate fluently.

It is not like office or factory job but more like customer service job- you teach, interact with students - give example by your behaviour, rules, ethics.

I am not sure but maybe on this forum you interpret things differently. I think that people in Poland respect education. I would say that University attendance is still quite high comparing to other European countries.

I am not sure what is wrong with standardizing hours- maybe just to make it clear that they do much more like preparation, checking tests....I don't think anyone has problem to pay for this time. This just should be done at school not at home. And it would be 20 hours lessons....20 hours preparation so they are paid for 40 hours. What is wrong with it?
mafketis 17 | 6,875
27 Apr 2019  #221
I am not sure what is wrong with standardizing hours-

you've obviously never been a teacher... material needs to be tailored to the group (teaching the material exactly the same way to every group is a recipe for failure) this means additional materials, updating materials (using the same materials unchanged year in and year out is another recipe for failure)

and grading written work is often best done not in an office setting but in two or three rounds with time between them

It is not like office or factory job but more like customer service job

then who are the customers? the students? it's a service profession in which, like medicine, where lay and professional diagnoses tend to not coincide...

I think that people in Poland respect education

then they need to pay teachers more, the problem in poland is everybody wants to do things on the cheap so healthcare is underfunded and education is underfunded and then people complain about the results of the population's miserliness...
10iwonka10 - | 401
27 Apr 2019  #222
No I have never been a teacher but I have been a student- If material needs to be tailored to the group that is why teachers need additional hours to do it and to be paid for it. It is customer service/service for which tax payers pay so they want to know what they pay for. I don't understand why it is the problem? Do it ,stay at school and be paid for it.

Average person on the street says: 'O teachers have just few hours, lots holidays wants lots money but we spend in office 40 hours a week'.....that is why I think it is very logical to create extra time at school it is transparent , honest and maybe needs introducing.

Thta is what is on the most Universities. Professors/Doctors have their rooms where they work between lectures.

Another option flexible hours/work from home but again it should be more defined.

>>>>and grading written work is often best done not in an office setting but in two or three rounds with time between them>>>> I don't quite understand what you mean by this?

I don't think that going cheap is just Polish problem. Look at British NHS- disaster - lot's tax payers money just wasted. Schools...all social class division good school are really private schools which are not free.
Rich Mazur 5 | 3,274
27 Apr 2019  #223
The first problem with teachers is that you can't fire them for incompetence. At least in the US. Is it the same in Poland?
Joker 1 | 815
27 Apr 2019  #224
in the Uk the public sector pay is 2.5 or 3 times what it is in Poland.

Only a fool would leave the UK to go work in Poland for such low pay, unless they are under qualified or don't have much ambition to succeed.

If you have a criminal record or shady past in the UK, is it easy to find an English teaching job in Poland?

Ive heard these expat teachers are a dime a dozen and don't get much respect at all.
Lyzko 20 | 6,324
27 Apr 2019  #225
The reasons as I've stated to distractions on this forum why Poles have such lousy English instruction!
If there aren't any standards, there isn't going to be any effective learning now, is there?
10iwonka10 - | 401
27 Apr 2019  #226
@Joker

There are private language schools in Poland where English native speakers teach. These schools are quite popular in Poland and it is not so easy to get job there.

I ma sure they are not full of British paedophiles and murderers.:-)
Lyzko 20 | 6,324
27 Apr 2019  #227
Well said, Iwonko! Hear, hear:-)
asiapelasia 1 | 1
3 May 2019  #228
@delphiandomine Hi, I am new to this site and came across a few of your posts. Not sure if you live in Poznan but you seem to have a good handle on what's going on there. I posted a new thread under work titled "Jobs in Poznan," would you be able to read it and respond if you can?
OP Dougpol1 27 | 2,641
3 May 2019  #229
such low pay, unless they are under qualified or don't have much ambition to succeed.

There are many reasons that TEFL teachers go overseas - I'm sure you could work it out if you wanted to.
Those who are academically minded need to go overseas for the experience and research. Then others are doing so as a uni gap year etc. Then there are others like myself who were married, and wanted a lifestyle change from the hard drinking culture in geological servicing.

Then there are others who you are patronisingly referring to, who find themselves a vocation. If they can't hack it, they don't stay around for long.

One of my pals, an American, is an absolute wizard in the classroom, with his energy, command, and methodology. Parents attempt to insist that he takes their children into his classes.

He is a fantastic teacher you see. They do exist, though you seem to deride the profession
This guy is 70 and his eyes shine when he tells me what happened in his classes that morning.
Weird ( as I teach tech, not kids) but horses for courses...
What's your million dollar per annum profession Joker?
10iwonka10 - | 401
3 May 2019  #230
@Dougpol1

I think some of them just go abroad for a year or longer for some experience, excitement, travel...... When I still lived in Krakow we got British guy who was coming to my Company and had lessons of English with us ( different groups, different levels Company paid for it). He worked in England as a restaurant manager - he passed this TEFL exam in UK and he came to Krakow to teach. I think he was really very good teacher....not teacher as such but no doubts he was much better than lots of my teachers I had at school.
OP Dougpol1 27 | 2,641
3 May 2019  #231
I think some of them just go abroad for a year or longer for some experience, excitement, travel.....

Yes that's it. One of the main sources of teaching abroad. Missing the point that you don't usually get on the TEFL programme without a university degree or some acquired talent for holding the group together. Joker was indulging in the usual "Anybody can teach English.." Successfully, not quite!
10iwonka10 - | 401
3 May 2019  #232
I don't think this guy who taught us had university degree but with sure he was very good. I think if he never had gone to Poland to teach he would not have discovered his talent.

I think probably 30-40 years ago when Poland was behind iron curtain any 'English native speaker' was a treasure. Not now.I think it is not easy to get job in these private language schools in Krakow.
Lyzko 20 | 6,324
4 May 2019  #233
A treasure and a rare jewel, I'm sure:-)
From primary school on up through high school, wonder how many English native speakers still teach English in Poland.
OP Dougpol1 27 | 2,641
4 May 2019  #234
how many English native speakers

Maybe a couple of thousand at least.....? It's often a case of it's not what you know, but who you know. Those people stay within their circle, and don't have to, or don't wish to advertise.
Lyzko 20 | 6,324
4 May 2019  #235
Let's pray that number keeps growing.... if nothing else than for merely their sake of the rising generation of young Polish pupils learning English, university degree(s) or not, I'm with Iwonka there.


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