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Schools in Poland to strike tomorrow


terri 1 | 1,620
25 Apr 2019  #181
The teacher's strike has been suspended as from today.
cms neuf - | 903
25 Apr 2019  #182
@Rich Mazur
Whether we are talking about French Lit or French language what is clear is that you have nothing to contribute to an interesting thread about the Polish teachers strike - for two reasons - you are not living in Poland and you don't have kids. So maybe carry on your culture war on the off topic thread.

By the looks of it there is no school tomorrow and start again on Monday. Some regions still talking about continuing the strike though ?
10iwonka10 - | 396
25 Apr 2019  #183
You sound very snobbish here but to be honest there is more use for good trader like plumber, electrician.... than of philosopher or sculptor.
jon357 63 | 14,122
25 Apr 2019  #184
There's no reason a plumber or electrician shouldn't have the benefit of a good education.
10iwonka10 - | 396
25 Apr 2019  #185
Of course there is not - but let's be honest they don't tend to have masters degree....Unless some starving sculptor or philosopher would retrain :-)
jon357 63 | 14,122
25 Apr 2019  #186
but let's be honest they don't tend to have masters degree

We'll find more and more with degrees, or good pre-18 education.

Of course it's in the interest of some politicians (PiS, the Tories etc) that the lower orders stay uneducated ;-)
10iwonka10 - | 396
25 Apr 2019  #187
Don't you exaggerate a bit? Exactly - how many plumbers or electricians in UK are so highly educated? I would not say that there were any more under Labour.
Lyzko 22 | 6,534
25 Apr 2019  #188
A philosopher might say, "Get used to the dark!", much as a practicing Christian Scientist might claim, "The illness
is all in your mind!"

Seriously though, in any society, there's call for both professions as well as trades.
After all, if an electrician or plumber can neither read not write aka communicate effectively,
his know-how isn't worth squat:-)
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,178
25 Apr 2019  #189
but to be honest there is more use for good trader like plumber, electrician.... than of philosopher or sculptor.

Iwonka, you are a 10.
Plumbers and electricians make life worth living. Philosophers gave us communism and fascism.
I never saw an ad "Philosophers Wanted". I see a lot of ads "Truckers Wanted".
Also, what woman would pick a philosopher before a carpenter? Like none and there is a reason for it.
I will be happy to explain if asked.
Lyzko 22 | 6,534
25 Apr 2019  #190
And the English gave us flush toilets, so what else is new?
I recently saw an ad too, in front of a new condo going up right on our block:
"TENANTS WANTED, NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY!"

lol
10iwonka10 - | 396
25 Apr 2019  #191
You get quite extreme. Of course they can read and write but.... probably can't discuss modern art or Einstein theory :-)
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,178
25 Apr 2019  #192
My father was a scientist and a Ph.D. living in his own universe 24/7. I am sure he was able to write his next book while asleep. Good for him and a f***king nightmare for the rest of us.


Keep to the topic please

mafketis 20 | 7,170
25 Apr 2019  #193
The teacher's strike has been suspended as from today.

After reading a bit I think that Broniarz was bought off, he says they're only 'suspending' the strike and might continue it in September (by which time PiS will pass legislation making strikes by teachers illegal).

A massive, massive betrayal. Productive teachers get nothing while more goodies go for the economic leeches who vote for PiS... just disgraceful.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,178
25 Apr 2019  #194
PiS will pass legislation making strikes by teachers illegal

Public employees should not be allowed to strike. Ever. Don't like your job? Quit and find a better one.
Strikers should be terminated after one warning. The organizers should be charged criminally for conspiracy.
If you allow public school teachers to strike, why not every other public employee?
Lyzko 22 | 6,534
25 Apr 2019  #195
Admittedly unimportant, Iwonko, I was merely being sarcastic in order to counteract or neutralize Rich's ignorance:-)
Actually, in smaller European countries, principally in Scandinavia, the number of "workmen" or "tradesmen"
I've met over the years who were as well-read as they were good with their hands, was amazing! More power to such people.
jon357 63 | 14,122
25 Apr 2019  #196
how many plumbers or electricians in UK are so highly educated?

A fair few, and of course being well-educated isn't the same as being highly-educated...

Fortunately the education system works well without people who 'just quit'. As for sacking strikers, very fortunately, we aren't in America...
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,178
26 Apr 2019  #197
As for sacking strikers, very fortunately, we aren't in America...

So, there is no time limit on teachers' strikes in Poland. I didn't know that.
10iwonka10 - | 396
26 Apr 2019  #198
@jon357
I suppose it depends how you define 'educated' and 'highly educated'.? We bought house last year and we had quite a few people doing some work ( plumber, electrician, painters, someone putting floor) - They were all British and they have done very good job but I would describe them as with normal basic education- which in UK it would be leaving school at 16 and learning trade. There is not only school education but general intelligence , interest about world , reading books, papers....it is very personal so we should not stereotype it.
Chemikiem 6 | 1,916
26 Apr 2019  #199
they're only 'suspending' the strike and might continue it in September (by which time PiS will pass legislation making strikes by teachers illegal

I think you're right. From what I have read, the decision to suspend the strike came after PiS began fast-tracking changes in education law that would allow for organisation of exams next month without much need for teachers. A new bit of legislation by September will have the desired effect unfortunately.
mafketis 20 | 7,170
26 Apr 2019  #200
PiS began fast-tracking changes in education law

PiS is against paying for education just like it's against paying for healthcare, it's all about the gimmes with them....
OP Dougpol1 30 | 2,935
26 Apr 2019  #201
The teacher's strike has been suspended as from today.

Starved back. Two of my friends have applied for office jobs with a Gdansk multi-corp giant which struggles to fill seats at 4,500 zl. I have great respect for them both. Schoolchildren are the losers. PIS are scum - the brain drain continues, especially as Brexit is scheduled for 2070.
mafketis 20 | 7,170
26 Apr 2019  #202
PIS are scum - the brain drain continues

And in a few years when there aren't enough teachers.... they'll just try to fast track Ukrainians into the system (as they are doing with nurses now) or close more public schools and the 500+ crowd will grow up even more under-educated than they would have been...
10iwonka10 - | 396
26 Apr 2019  #203
It appears that for today there are too many teachers . Just market rules - surplus in any industry is not easy to utilise.
mafketis 20 | 7,170
26 Apr 2019  #204
Education is not (or should not be) an 'industry' it is a profession and unless compensation is improved there won't be enough and/or only those with the fewest other options will stick around and education will suffer.... but who cares about the future?
10iwonka10 - | 396
26 Apr 2019  #205
I think that no one denies that education is important.

It is just my opinion but I think that there are too many teachers now they struggle to have enough hours but at the same time they expect increase at their salary. It is a bit like working part time and expecting salary for full time job. Something has gone wrong somewhere. There are too many forms, bureaucracy for teachers to fill.... just waste of time. I think there should be certain amount of lessons and then allocated time for preparation, checking test- time spent at school as working time for which they should be paid.
terri 1 | 1,620
26 Apr 2019  #206
There was a survey done recently on teacher's working hours. A teacher who has 18 hours blackboard time spent 47 hours in total on education related activities. There should be room in every school for a teacher to conduct their business including a working computer and printer, and time for marking, lesson preparation, meetings with parents, telephone calls from parents, emails and everything else. After 40 hours the teacher should leave and that should be the end of the working day.

The Government relies on teacher's goodwill to take work home for marking, use their own computers and printers. They should what used to be called 'work to rule' i.e. to the rule book. If there is no school computer then the teacher will not use their own laptop to mark school attendance, put the results of all tests etc. The school should provide time and equipment.

A teacher should start on 3.5K pln gross and have incremental increases. A director of a school should be paid 15K pln gross at the very least.
10iwonka10 - | 396
26 Apr 2019  #207
I saw this survey :
gratka.pl/regiopraca/portal/porady/prawa-pracownika/ile-godzin-tygodniowo-pracuja-nauczyciele

I think that like in any other job some teacher are quick and well organised some not. I think that this 47 hours is bit exaggerated.
pawian 159 | 9,492
26 Apr 2019  #208
Strikers should be terminated after one warning. If you allow public school teachers to strike, why not every other public employee?

Yes, you already said it in this thread. Good you are reminding us about it. And the answer again is:

And in a few years when there aren't enough teachers.... they'll just try to fast track Ukrainians into the system

I hope not only Ukrainians. The education branch will adopt all kinds of immigrants from everywhere: Indians and other Asians, Africans. They might start from teaching English, why not, and then move to other subjects. They don`t even need to speak Polish - there are bilingual classes in some Polish schools where e.g., Biology is taught in English.

I just can`t wait to see it happening. My dream of true diversity will be fulfilled at last.
10iwonka10 - | 396
26 Apr 2019  #209
Idea is good but I think language could be the barrier.....In small towns, villages not big chance for lessons in English.
mafketis 20 | 7,170
26 Apr 2019  #210
Well instruction in English will certainly have a catstrophic effect on Polish society and drastically increase inequality - just like any other country where English isn't the daily spoken language but dominates in education

Poland could be like India or Nigeria or the Phillipines..... yay?


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