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Schools in Poland to strike tomorrow


10iwonka10 - | 396
15 Apr 2019  #91
I suppose by moving from Poland to UK I compare some things. It started to be obvious to me that if we want to build social houses, pay 500zl per child, increase salaries of police, nurses, teacher....there is not enough money in budget and we need another tax to top it up.

In relation to council tax I don't agree with it. Someone already pays lots money to buy house in nice area ....why to charge him still monthly for it?

I think Poland has different mentality. Like when living in flat you pay for rubbish collection depending on how many people live in flat. Also pensions. I know it is going to change in Poland for worse. In UK you can be Managing Director and pay contribution for state pension for 30 years and you have the same state pension as someone on minimum wages after 30 years.
jon357 63 | 14,076
15 Apr 2019  #92
.there is not enough money in budget and we need another tax to top it up.

This is true.

why to charge him still monthly for it?

It's the way schools, local roads, libraries and town infrastructure is funded. Pluses and minuses about whether they're paid for by higher tax centrally or lower income tax and a local tax instead.

About pensions, the state pension is the minimum. Working people are of course expected to pay into a works pension (final-salary if it's a decent one), or a private pension (not always great)..
terri 1 | 1,612
16 Apr 2019  #93
Just read on a Polish website that the people who currently service the 500 plus payments for children are voting on strike action. If they go on strike there will be no payments for children. The country will be in an uproar - but they are in an ideal position to ask for more money or go on sick.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
16 Apr 2019  #94
Yup, just read the same thing. It seems that quite a few groups have had enough of "free money" being handed out, and that they want a share of the spoils.
Rich Mazur 4 | 2,358
16 Apr 2019  #95
The best way to take care of things like this is to add a line item to the paycheck tax deductions: for teachers. Or: for assisting the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This idea is so awesome that even I am amazed. And I don't amaze easily.
cms neuf - | 795
16 Apr 2019  #96
Maybe the Russian taxpayer can see an extra line on their small paychecks - one that says funding pathetic trolls.

I am sure if asked they would rather fix the trams or replace some of the rustbucket aircraft carriers. Probably just as well they don't have a choice in the matter actually since elections and representative governments are something only viewed through an alcoholic mist from the 90s
Rich Mazur 4 | 2,358
16 Apr 2019  #97
Maybe the Russian taxpayer can see...

And that is about the strike in Poland how?

one that says funding pathetic trolls.

At least we are paid. Pathetic is what you are doing here for free.

To the mods: off subject but he made me do it.
jon357 63 | 14,076
16 Apr 2019  #98
Just read on a Polish website that the people who currently service the 500 plus payments for children are voting on strike action

I hope they do this. Civil servants are chronically underpaid in PL.
Rich Mazur 4 | 2,358
16 Apr 2019  #99
...because to be a "civil servant" you only need a pulse.
In Chicago, some "civil servants" are able to vote even without a pulse. Just an example to make my brilliant point.
Back to teachers in Poland....
jon357 63 | 14,076
16 Apr 2019  #100
because to be a "civil servant" you only need a pulse.

A bit more than that for most jobs, certainly in education...
10iwonka10 - | 396
16 Apr 2019  #101
people who currently service the 500 plus payments for children are voting on strike action.

Why? They must receive it too if they have a children.
terri 1 | 1,612
17 Apr 2019  #102
Just read on a Polish website that the President of Poland, Mr. A. Duda has confirmed that 'teachers' earnings given by the Government on TV are false.'
kaprys 2 | 1,664
17 Apr 2019  #103
How about giving 500+ to any salary?
Teachers and people of other professions would be happy and finally it would be work that's appreciated. Those who don't give a damn about working and contributing to the state budget would be rather be ... annoyed but perhaps that would make them appreciate what they get.
Lyzko 20 | 6,038
17 Apr 2019  #104
Amen, kaprys!

It's usually the teachers who end up getting screwed anyway.
OP Dougpol1 28 | 2,662
17 Apr 2019  #105
Gazeta Wyborcza says today that presidents of major cities have guaranteed that striking teachers will be paid in full. I hopoe this is the case, and is a giant finger to PIS who stated, "if you strike, you will not be paid a groszy for your time" (even though the regulations state that striking teachers must be on the premises.)

If all the striking teachers stayed at home instead of obeying such archaic rules, what the hell could the government do about it? It's a complete misnomer - "Solidarnoscz.." There never was any.
Braveheart16 16 | 121
17 Apr 2019  #106
It seems to me that the 500+ scheme is clearly beneficial to parents/couples having children but I wonder if this just encourages having babies to benefit from the payments..(not sure if this is the best way to increase the population...far better to improve the services so that people feel valued...)..I also wonder where this money is coming from and how long it can be sustained....It could be argued that there are other sections of society who are more deserving....perhaps social issues, for example improving the health system which in any society is essential if Poland wishes to provide a professional, efficient and caring service to those in need....Perhaps also financing infrastructure projects to supplement European funding...and financing increased regulation on rubbish dumping/clearance of rubbish, such as can be found in forests and ditches which is my view is unforgivable and a blot on the landscape.....

How on earth is Poland going to attract tourism (because of course there is so much to offer in Poland) if the countryside is full of rubbish and dogs on the loose.....I do wonder when the PIS are going to put their money where there mouth is when it comes to improving the lives of their citizens....will it be this year...next year....year after...? It doesn't seem very transparent and clear when listening to the news on TV..... Financing the 500+ project is short termism and unlikely to last so do the recipients of these payments realise this when it comes to voting in the forthcoming elections or will they blindly vote for PIS just to keep the payments they now rely on..? I have to agree that teachers do deserve a pay increase and also deserve more respect and understanding...It is said that there are good and bad teachers but of course this is the same in all professions....what I think needs to be understood is that teaching is an essential part of providing a stable educational starting point for students who are starting out in life.....Further teaching development training and more pro-active management support, would go a long way to address poor performers ..

Finally perhaps this spare cash could be spent on encouraging people to steer away from using coal for heating and making it user friendly for people to use gas or at least a cleaner fuel..(500 zl per family for fuel payments should go a long way...)....if money is being spent to encourage people to use cleaner fuel, it is not happening quick enough...they need to try harder....
mafketis 19 | 6,853
17 Apr 2019  #107
I do wonder when ...PIS are going to put their money where there mouth is when it comes to improving the lives of their citizens

What makes you think they care about that? They're all about patronage... vote for them faithfully and they'll throw some zloties at you and never mind about who's going to end up paying for it...
10iwonka10 - | 396
17 Apr 2019  #108
I am afraid it is very universal rule- every government is the same.
Rich Mazur 4 | 2,358
18 Apr 2019  #109
Do you realize how many will now go to bed crying? Boo hoo, you mean that "democracy" is nothing but a lie like Santa and Tooth Fairy? Boo hoo....so very sad...
Spike31 2 | 860
18 Apr 2019  #110
How about giving 500+ to any salary?

Kaprys, much better idea would be to not deducting those 500PLN from salary in taxes in the first place.

It's a huge waste of money and resources to first take it away from citizens, then run it through beaurocratic machinery, and then give it away as "government money". Each 500+ costs us 600+.

Government doesn't make any money. It is our money and they only distributing it as they wish.
kaprys 2 | 1,664
18 Apr 2019  #111
That's the point. Why would anyone who doesn't willingly contribute to the budget get money from it?
If it's to be paid to those who actually do, it should be done in the most preferable way possible.
Of course there should be some money for those who recently lost their jobs and looking for another but I'm fed up with those who make a living of the social welfare.

In the meanwhile there's no money for teachers, nurses or the disabled.
terri 1 | 1,612
18 Apr 2019  #112
The problem is that the Government (Prime Minister and Prezes) go on TV and promise the earth and everyone believes them. They promised reduction in the tax from 18 to 17%....but later we find out it's only for people who earn less than 3.5K pln gross a month. They promised no tax for under 26, but we learn it's only for full-time employees. It's the headlines that attract the whole community, but the devil is in the details. So not all that glitters is gold.

As for the childrens' 500 plus, I said at the time, that many women will give up work as it will not be worth for them. If you have 3 children and do not work, you get 1.5K pln in hand, but working on the minimum wage, you might bring home 1.8K pln. Also all classes get it, so even those on 50K or 60K pln per month get the 500 plus. The Government didn't want to put a limit on this as they themselves would then not get it. This seems somehow unfair. Even in England, you do not get child benefit if one of you earns above a certain amount.

The Prezes will not promise whatever the public wants never thinking where the money is coming from. He has his reasons.
mafketis 19 | 6,853
18 Apr 2019  #113
I am afraid it is very universal rule- every government is the same.

Yes and no. All governments want to maximize their power but there are a number of different approaches they take and these have very different effects on the populations they represent.

PO is more into relative wealth, the richer the country gets the more opportunities (inside and outside Poland) for them so their policies. Their policies can lead to greater overall prosperity (for most people).

PiS is into relative absolute, they don't care how poor the country becomes as long as they're in power and can reward their supporters and punish their enemies. Their policies lead to robbing the treasury so they can give the rabble some trinkets to vote for them.
terri 1 | 1,612
18 Apr 2019  #114
There was a joke about Winston Churchill once asking a lady whether she would go to bed with a man for money. She said 'no' and he then said 'but Madam, everyone has their price.' It is the same with PiS supporters. They sell themselves for a bowlful of rice now, but if another party offered more they would switch.

Just a small matter. Beata Szydlo is going to get an increase on her monthly pay from 16.7K pln to 24.1K pln gross. So there is money - but only for the chosen few. She gets 7.4K pln more whereas some people don't even earn that a month and teachers are lucky to get 4K pln per month. Some country......
Spike31 2 | 860
18 Apr 2019  #115
In the meanwhile there's no money for teachers, nurses or the disabled.

I believe that's not the issue in private shools where teachers get paid according to their skills and their results. So instead of looking for "governement" money for pay raises for tachers en masse we should change the education system.

Parents of a school children should vote with their money. This way great teacher would make great money, average teachers would make average money and bad teachers would have to re-train or upskill or lose their job.
Lyzko 20 | 6,038
18 Apr 2019  #116
Who then determines whether or not a teacher is "great" or "average", Spike? Some dipso bureaucrat from Sejm, perhaps barely sat in a classroom for long, making professional decisions about those about whom he knows nothing whatsoever, moreover, who's probably never logged in teaching hours in their life, sitting back

collecting a nice fat pension, having sat for umpteen years on some cushy Commie-Era sinecure??

Terrific! That's why the country's in such trouble.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
18 Apr 2019  #117
Parents of a school children should vote with their money.

It wouldn't work. I have a supervisory position in a private school, and if parents were allowed to vote on individual teachers, you'd see a lot of problems with teachers doing things such as giving easy work (so the kids get high grades, so parents are happy) instead of doing the right thing. It's a problem where I work - one of the most popular teachers is also a crap teacher, but because his subject is never tested externally, no-one cares because the parents and kids love him. However, he sucks and he doesn't have a clue.

There are ways to evaluate teachers, and parent/child evaluations are part of the overall puzzle, but you should also be evaluating (and paying) them on objective criteria. But to go back to your idea about skills and results - skills, yes. Results are trickier, because it's not fair to punish teachers financially for having weak classes. If it was up to me, I'd broadly pay teachers according to their qualifications, experience, subject knowledge (and yes, it should be tested yearly), evaluations from management/parents/children, extra activities and their actual work (are they organised, are they effective, do they follow the programa podstawowa correctly, etc.).

So yes, great teachers who have high qualifications, lots of experience, great subject knowledge, good evaluations and who put a lot of effort into what they do - they should be paid well. Those who do the bare minimum deserve the bare minimum, IMO.
Lyzko 20 | 6,038
18 Apr 2019  #118
In the States though, this type of merit-based system has had practically zilch success! Why? Because hot-button performers such as affirmative action along with "diversity counseling" often result in Unqualified instructors/professors in position in which they are clearly out of their depth.
jon357 63 | 14,076
18 Apr 2019  #119
private shools where teachers get paid according to their skills

In the state system, teachers are also paid incrementally.

Payment by results is problematic, especially for schools in areas with social deprivation and those with a significant number of children who are less educationally able.

Parents of a school children should vote with their money.

That's been suggested before and dismissed as unworkable.
Lyzko 20 | 6,038
18 Apr 2019  #120
I tend to agree with jon about this.


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