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Poland one step closer to visa waiver by US Senate


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
28 Jun 2013  #1
The US Senate has adopted the proper immigration measure, now it faces a battle in the House of Representatives. It's high time Poles stopped being treated like high-risk potential terrorists. 'America's most loyal allies' and copious pats on the back have been provided by the Clintons, Bushes and Obamas of this world, but Polish oil fields in Kuwait somehow failed to materialise, the offset deal has fallen short of expectations and the visa queues are still in place.
Looker
10 Jun 2014  #2
Poland one step closer to visa waiver by US Senate

How many steps left? A million? I doubt that Poland will have this "privilege" 10 years from now...
jon357 63 | 14,134
10 Jun 2014  #3
The criteria for the visa waiver are straightforward - plenty of countries in Europe manage to meet them without needing an exception.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
10 Jun 2014  #4
The criteria for the visa waiver are straightforward

straightforward is not equal objective
f stop 25 | 2,513
10 Jun 2014  #5
Personally, I'm torn. Visa requirement is keeping at least 3 relatives away from my front door
( you can take that any way you'd like ;) )
noskii 2 | 16
10 Jun 2014  #6
I think the problem lies with Polans who don't come back after "visiting" the US.
Like in the UK, they too have problems with illegals from Poland.
I could be wrong but perhaps the rational is that they can't afford to give out visa waivers for citizens of
countries whose people do not honour the visa expiry. It happens in every country.
Less777 - | 50
10 Jun 2014  #7
Like in the UK, they too have problems with illegals from Poland.

Why don't you tell us more about that?
jon357 63 | 14,134
10 Jun 2014  #8
Like in the UK, they too have problems with illegals from Poland.

There are no "illegals from Poland" in the UK - both countries are part of the EU and citizens of either country have a right to live in either or both.

perhaps the rational is that they can't afford to give out visa waivers for citizens of countries whose people do not honour the visa expiry

That's one of the criteria that hasn't yet been met.

Personally, I'm torn. Visa requirement is keeping at least 3 relatives away from my front door

That's a shame. I'm in a similar situation myself. It's the people who overstay because they want to work that spoil things for genuine visitors. Perhaps it would be possible to fix a visa?
Cardno85 31 | 976
10 Jun 2014  #9
It's high time Poles stopped being treated like high-risk potential terrorists

It's not the terrorism threat they are worried about. It's the fact that so many Poles come to visit and then stay permenantly, leading to costly (for the US) deportation or citizenship procedures. Although in saying that, Poland are hardly the worst in Europe for that sort of thing and they are still the only established EU country that has to queue for a Visa to go for a weekend in New York.
noskii 2 | 16
10 Jun 2014  #10
whoops.. sorry. I've been to so many countries that I'm now confusing all of them with each other. jon357 is right. Cardno85 is more correct. I see.
Lenka 3 | 1,545
10 Jun 2014  #11
If it was about ppl overstaying I would be all for it but from what I know the VWP is about the number of visa applications rejected which is not the same.
Harry
10 Jun 2014  #12
from what I know the VWP is about the number of visa applications rejected

That's entirely correct. And some Poles are rejected because they are found likely to overstay (just as hundreds of thousands of Poles did in the past).
Lenka 3 | 1,545
10 Jun 2014  #13
Being likely to overstay and overstaying are two different things, aren't they?
It's like judging someone before he commit the crime.
Harry
10 Jun 2014  #14
It's like judging someone before he commit the crime

That's what visas are.
noskii 2 | 16
10 Jun 2014  #15
Quite possible that those rejected are the Polans without a job prior to visiting the US. Most likely rejected.
Dont gag me yo 7 | 156
10 Jun 2014  #16
Being likely to overstay and overstaying are two different things

Infact its not only about that but also some people come and work while on tourist visa esp the ones witrh multi entry 10 years visa come and work for 6 months and go back for 6 months I have seen a woman get her visa cancelled and deported.Also its not only polish but some brits and irish also.
Lenka 3 | 1,545
10 Jun 2014  #17
That's what visas are.

True a bit however in this case I don't get it- why not judge it by the number of ppl that overstay?
Someone in the office thinks I may overstay- it's his opinion and is an assumption so it can be harmful
Not that I care, I don't intend to go to the US but I find it ridiculous that ppl are judged by what might have happened instead of what's happening. Why use mentalist capabilities of the office workers while we have a data about how many ppl really overstay it?
Cardno85 31 | 976
10 Jun 2014  #18
Someone in the office thinks I may overstay- it's his opinion and is an assumption so it can be harmful

That is a problem with the system. I used to work outside the US Consulate in Kraków where people would queue all day to find out if they could go and visit family. Most of them were respectable enough and it was at the whim of the consulate to grant them the Visa. Most people got it, but they had to pay 800PLN for it, and if you failed, you needed to pay again. Considering the statue of liberty states "bring me your poor and unwanted" (paraphrased) it's a bit funny how strict they are. Keep in mind the Polish were one of the countries that helped build that nation.
jon357 63 | 14,134
10 Jun 2014  #19
it's his opinion and is an assumption so it can be harmful

It's probably based on hard data about the people who do overstay.
Lenka 3 | 1,545
10 Jun 2014  #20
Harder than the data about how many ppl actualy overtay? And remember that even if you do get a visa it's doesn't mean you'll be able to enter.

USA has every right to let in only the ppl they want I just think it's a stupid system.
jon357 63 | 14,134
10 Jun 2014  #21
Harder than the data about how many ppl actualy overtay?

I suspect you misread the sentence and in fact we're saying the same thing. What data do you imagine they would use bar the details of people who overstay? They know who doesn't leave the country on time and they know what those people put in their visa applications - certainly enough to make a reliable profile of overstayers.

I just think it's a stupid system.

They manage their visa and immigration policies with a lot of careful thought. They certainly don't just pull regulations out of their asses to indulge the inferiority complexes of people from countries excluded from the waiver programme.
Nittanymet - | 3
10 Jun 2014  #22
There is currently a petition going around related to Poland and the visa waiver program:

petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/grant-visa-waiver-poland/

If you are interested and if this topic is important to you, I encourage you to sign the petition and share.
Lenka 3 | 1,545
10 Jun 2014  #23
They know who doesn't leave the country on time and they know what those people put in their visa applications

If the system is so great why there are still ppl that get into USA AND overstay it?
As I said, let them do whatever they want but to me the actual number of overstayed visas would be much better indicator.

indulge the inferiority complexes of people from countries excluded from the waiver programme.

Why such cheap argument? As I said- I don't care if Poland is in the programme. If by the number of overstayed visa they decided Poland can't join I couldn't care less.

There is currently a petition going around related to Poland and the visa waiver program

The USA has the right to decide how they want to deal with it so no, I won't sign it. Even if I think it's stupid.
Harry
10 Jun 2014  #24
If the system is so great why there are still ppl that get into USA AND overstay it?

You mean there is a government system which is not perfect?!

the actual number of overstayed visas would be much better indicator.

No: the number of people who overstay is a result of the number who are turned down.
jon357 63 | 14,134
10 Jun 2014  #25
If the system is so great why there are still ppl that get into USA AND overstay it?

You'd prefer that they're stricter and don't issue visas to people from Poland? They're very strict with people from some countries.

I don't care

I couldn't care less

Nobody's twisting your arm. Evidently many could care less though since there's a petition and congressional lobbying to add Poland to the scheme.
Lenka 3 | 1,545
10 Jun 2014  #26
I admit that many ppl that do get rejected would overstay but I can bet that as many are rejected even though they never wanted to stay in the USA.

Ok, so maybe a compilation? Not one of you find it weird that the actual number of overstayed visas is not included in any way? That basically it doeasn't matter?
jon357 63 | 14,134
10 Jun 2014  #27
I admit that many ppl that do get rejected would overstay but I can bet that as many are rejected even though they never wanted to stay in the USA.

Doubtless

Not one of you find it weird that the actual number of overstayed visas is not included in any way?

It's included. They removed Argentina for this reason:

(iii) Report and publication The Secretary of Homeland Security shall on the same date submit to Congress and publish in the Federal Register information relating to the maximum visa overstay rate established under clause (i). Not later than 60 days after such date, the Secretary shall issue a final maximum visa overstay rate above which a country may not participate in the program.

law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187

Though a low visa refusal is a the main criteria for a stable country to join, they do still have a maximum visa overstay rate.
Lenka 3 | 1,545
10 Jun 2014  #28
Doubtless

Ok, let's put it like this:
I don't want to live in the USA but I do have a distant relatives there and suddenly I want to visit them. So here I go saying: I'm 28 yo, not working without a husband and kids...So what do you think- how quicly they will give me visa?

The system would definitely show high risk. But what? It's only assumption, I want to come back I just want to visit the country. Do you think there are not ppl like that?
jon357 63 | 14,134
10 Jun 2014  #29
So what do you think- how quicly they will give me visa?

A few decades maybe. I suppose they have to balance turning down a high risk young person who wants a holiday or allowing in a high risk young person who will become an illegal immigrant.

Do you think there are not ppl like that?

Many, and as I said earlier in the thread, I'm affected by this myself. Thousands of people round the world want to enter countries they don't have access to.

But can you think of another way they should do it? Perhaps not, since:

I couldn't care less.

BLS 65 | 188
10 Jun 2014  #30
As I understand the process, the US calculates the number of people that overstay their visas for each country. If the number of "illegals" over the previous 5 years averages above 10%, then that country's citizens must continue to apply for visas. Each year, the percentage of "illegal" Poles drops - but it seems the aggregate is still above that 10% threshold.

I'm no fan of the US (one reason I moved to Europe), but they have the same rule for each Schengen country...and Poland is apparently the ONLY member country that doesn't abide by this 10% rule. If this information is true, then one must begrudgingly point the finger at Poland for this visa requirement. If my information is wrong, however, I hope someone will enlighten me (as I absolutely don't wish to give my homeland any undeserved credit).

It's like judging someone before he commit the crime.

I feel this way every time I apply for my karta pobytu - I have done everything right and above-board for my entire six-year stay in Poland, yet the folks at residency don't seem overly impressed. For some reason, they seem to believe I'm a welfare case just waiting to happen!


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