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Poland needs a left wing govt.


isthatu2 4 | 2,708
14 Mar 2011  #61
Romania also had somewhat of a minor civil war to get its freedom as well as a dreadfull legacy from cuecescue...chowchessque..the commie fella and his awfull wife.....to overcome, where as Poland had been relatively well managed prior to 89.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
14 Mar 2011  #62
The United States considered Romania "a unique country with a special role to play
in East-West relations." Romania was the only Warsaw-Pact member to refuse joint military maneuvers on its soil or the assignment of its troops beyond its frontiers. It was also the only Warsaw-Pact member to join the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development,

the International Monetary Fund, and GATT; moreover it traded more with non-Communist countries than with the Soviet Union and its allies.

France granted Ceaușescu the Legion of Honour and in 1978 he became an Honorary British Knight (GCB, stripped in 1989) in the UK, Elena Ceaușescu was arranged to be 'elected' to membership of a Science Academy in the USA.


US Relations With Nicolae Ceaucescu
itchyballs
15 Mar 2011  #63
The Milton Friedman Free Market corporate state is just as bad as communism. Both systems depend on perfect societies where no one cheats. But everyone cheats and that's why they don't work. In Communism the state rips off the individual in the Corporate State the Corporations rip off the individual.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
15 Mar 2011  #64
Poland needs a right government.
The only thing left Poland should deal with is education.
Right governing leads to less taxes & more economic growth.

Poland needs to lower taxes but keep education up.

Poland has too high taxes as is. Poland percentage wise has one of the highest taxes proportionately This is bad. Poland needs a right government that will lower taxes & keep education up which will attract business & keep business.

The only thing LEft I would agree with is I think the Polish Government should have kept the FSO Polish car company & Should have put money into making the Polish FSO car a success Like Kia has become. They had the chance but I don't think so anymore.

Poland was destroyed by leftists. Hello Communism? Poland was richer than Japan, Portugal, Spain & Greece in 1950. After 50 years of Leftists Poland was stagnant due to stagnant left policies.

Latin America is prime example of Far Right governments.

Chile is right now the richest country in Latin America. They had far right Pinochet (Not saying I agree with him) But the results of Chile today speak for it's self

While the results of the Far Leftish Cuba taking Cuba which was richer than Austria & Japan half a century ago & Then made it into a third world hellhole.
Moonlighting 30 | 232
15 Mar 2011  #65
I'd say the problem of communism is excessive regulation and the problem of the libertarian model is excessive deregulation...

Poland needs a right government. The only thing left Poland should deal with is education.

I agree with your analysis except maybe for the taxes. How can you fund the required public services, like the education you mentioned, with minimal or no taxes? I'd add to this a better health care system. As an immigrant from Western Europe, I think the taxes here are much lower and of appropriate level. Not sure less taxes would be good for the country, but they should not be raised, for sure.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
15 Mar 2011  #66
I think Healthcare is a lesser concern.
Because Poland needs a good economy.
Healthcare does not really benefit the economy in fact it might be anti for the economy as healthcare that is public tends to have alot of cuts to make it for everyone which means cuts on jobs. Unlike private where they increase jobs as needed not increase jobs based on funding.

I would be for cutting healthcare but keeping education funding. Reason being an educated workforce is one that succeeds about getting high tech well paying jobs.

The main concern is wealth & good economy. Healthcare might be for well being for the short term. However for the long term wealth & a good economy makes peoples well being better.

Prime example is Cuba. Cuba has a better healthcare system than the U.S but Cubans go on rafts in shark infested water just to escape to the U.S

Poland was the same way under Communism. It was a disaster.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
15 Mar 2011  #67
Poland was the same way under Communism.

What is Communism? When and where one could/can find it? What Poland has to do with Communism?
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
15 Mar 2011  #68
You can find Communism by worshipping Mass murdering Leftists & Wearing shirts of these Mass murdering leftists like Che Guevara, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Lenin ect.

Then you can smoke pot & Talk about how everyone needs to be equal even if they don't work they deserve the same amount of goods.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
15 Mar 2011  #69
Then when Poland was a Communist country? Can you explain what Che Guevara, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Lenin had to do with communism and with each other?

What do you understand by leftists? Where have you found shirts with those "Mass murdering leftists"? What is to smoke pot? Needs to be equal even if they don't work, the Soviet system was criticised even in the '80s for practicing the old Testament principle: "если не работаеш - то не кушаеш", that is: if you do not work you do not eat.
PolskiMoc 4 | 324
15 Mar 2011  #70
Stalin even jailed people for not working into Gulags.
If you work harder you don't make more under Communism. So there is no incentive to produce as much. Which leads to economic stagnation.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
15 Mar 2011  #71
If you work harder you don't make more under Communism. So there is no incentive to produce as much. Which leads to economic stagnation.

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FzrBurlJUNk

What can you say about hard work, incentives and production in case of some people in the video?
sovereign_man - | 19
17 Mar 2011  #72
I don't know Poland's politics but here in America the left wing's are killing this country. Not that the right wings are much better but the left wing is heavy pro illegal immigration, welfare, give me free everything, I'm entitled to the same as everyone else even though I didn't work for it.

All I know is this, if I sat around all day and didn't lift a finger at my job, I would be fired, not paid so why should lazy people who sit around and do no work get welfare thanks to those who busted their butts all day? They should get nothing. The only reason they get welfare is because the congressmen know that the lazy freeloaders will vote for them.

Careful what you wish for.

Polskimoc is correct, under communism/socialism there is no incentive to work harder. Its happening in America right now.
NomadatNet 1 | 457
17 Mar 2011  #73
the congressmen know that the lazy freeloaders will vote for them.

They know they themselves were/are lazy people.
They know the richest 5% people there like everywhere else were/are lazy people.
Have you thought that those 5% richest people, powerfuls, politicians have become riches and powers by hard working? Then, good morning.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
17 Mar 2011  #74
those who bust their butts all day

are the lowest paid and may be kicked out of their work at any time; they are only disposable pawns living in constant fear of being replaced by anyone else or even by a newfangled automaton; finally, their jobs can be outsourced to China or any other country of cheap labour.

On the other hand,

those who sit around all day and do not lift a finger

but who use their brains and with their thoughts create our world, and here I mean not only financiers - those are the salt of the earth, true men and not slave-like creatures imitating robots by busting their butts.

People driven by the fear of hunger, Soviet gulags or American prisons often despise others, but by doing that they despise themselves and at last they will be despised by others too.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
17 Mar 2011  #75
Not exactly a left wing ... but some government who is leaning to the left, socialism ... slightly ... with some of its good principles. Such a government will be better for Poland.

I would prefer a liberal view, pro life, pro welfare, less taxation, and having better immigration laws which makes it very very easy for students (genuine) who wish to enroll in our universities (specially from countries like China, India, Bangladesh and Srilanka), but slightly tougher for just the plain immigrant who want to come here for unskilled kind of job. Make it easier for business to come to Poland, FDI should be encouraged by tax holidays (more than ever), and the investors may also get citizenship much easily.

I would like the immigration to have strict health checks. Total screening (by Polish authorities) for major ailments (including HIV). Essays, also an assessment of the mental frame of the individual (can be done by a simple talk). But eventually, students I think should face only formality to enter Poland, but on entering they cannot get out of Poland before completing their studies (or leave from Poland without trespassing others if they don't want to continue study). These students must be welcome and accepted if they want to stay back in Poland, specially make family here with Poles and contribute positively in economy.

Economy ... from such a government should be mixed, have a background of socialism visible to some extent.

Thats my kind of government :)

Oh and yes... students who find jobs must be allowed great privilege so that they can buy a home for themselves without paying as much as others.
kondzior 9 | 948
17 Mar 2011  #77
Poland suffered under communism long enough, thank you very much. Why wolud we want to re-live a nightmare?
NomadatNet 1 | 457
17 Mar 2011  #78
Poland suffered under communism for 50-60 years.
Poland suffered under capitalism for 500-600 years.
Europe have suffered capitalism for 1000-2000 years.
USA have suffered capitalism for 300-400 years.
..
etc
kondzior 9 | 948
17 Mar 2011  #79
You don't suffer under capitalism. Quite the contrary. You prosper. I know, I have lived under both systems.
Trust me, there is nothing, absolutly nothing worse then cmmunism. The most evil thing in human history.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
17 Mar 2011  #80
You prosper.

Some most definitely don't prosper - look at the slums, trailers, hunger.
kondzior 9 | 948
17 Mar 2011  #81
They have an opporunity to improove their lives. Even in slums, there is still hope. Contrary to communism, where everyone is stuck in the same miserable situation, with no way to get better. Hell, even to try to get up, to live better, would be a crime against "the people"
NomadatNet 1 | 457
17 Mar 2011  #82
You don't suffer under capitalism. Quite the contrary. You prosper. I know, I have lived under both systems.

Socialism you lived in was another version of capitalism, it was not socialism really. It was Russian nationalist socialism only.

Socialism was tried only for some decades. Comparing this period for tousands of years of capitalism that tortured masses, etc, socialism can be considered it was not lived really.

However, before Poland now, it is their time for Britain and USA and Western Europe to try to do better socialism. They have no other chance. If they say they are not interested, it'll be global and it can be destructive.. doesnt matter for poor masses..

PS: Capitalists think capitalism is richness. True socialism is much richer than capitalism. Capitalist system is a stupid system that has been tried again again again.. Their final point is reached, nuclear disaster.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
17 Mar 2011  #83
They have an opporunity to improove their lives. Even in slums, there is still hope

Tell that to people in the barrios of Rio de Janeiro.
kondzior 9 | 948
17 Mar 2011  #84
@Jonny
Communism would not improove thers lives. Quite the contrary, to be sure.

@Nomadat
Of course it was real communism. As real as it gets. Hopelessness, suffering and opression, thats what communism is all about. And you are right, if someone tries to impose the communism on us again, it can get "destructive", sure it can. Because we are not going to let it happen the second time. Over my dead body.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
17 Mar 2011  #85
@Jonny Communism would not improove thers lives. Quite the contrary, to be sure.

The lives of the poorest can't get any worse than they are under capitalism. Anyway, who's talking about communism? There are plenty of alternatives that are not on the right wing of the political spectrum.
kondzior 9 | 948
17 Mar 2011  #86
But the lives can get better in capitalism. Under communism, if you want a better life, you are a criminal. Under communism, there is no hope.

Look, I know close to nothing about Rio de Janerio, but I do know that people in USA's slums were living better lives then regular, well-to-do Poles under communism.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
17 Mar 2011  #87
Then when Poland was a Communist country? Can you explain what Che Guevara, Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Lenin had to do with communism and with each other?

Here's yet another atempt to defend the "real" communism. You know, the "good kind" of communism that was never given a chance.. You lefties just never give up your Kumbayan dream.
NomadatNet 1 | 457
17 Mar 2011  #88
Of course it was real communism. As real as it gets. .

If there is anyone who will be more destructive, they are people like me who lived for two decades in anarchy land that had became an arena between capitalists and communists. Everyday, tens of people were being killed.. while centers like London, Washington, Moscow, Warsaw, etc were not living anything serious.. It is their time to pay and I give no chance! Russians already stepped back and became capitalists... now, West have to be communists!
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
17 Mar 2011  #89
people like me who lived for two decades in anarchy land that had became an arena between capitalists and communists. Everyday, tens of people were being killed.

Where was that?
NomadatNet 1 | 457
17 Mar 2011  #90
Here Anatolia. It was like a bridge between capitalist zone and communist zone. But, I know it was not only here, but, such things happened any place far from palaces like Birmingam palace, White house palace, Kremlin palace, etc..

Russians didn't know what the socialism is. If they knew, they could close their nuclear reactors those days. They didn't and it showed that they were not different than capitalists or not different than Gaddafi's Libya Socialist Republic.. A true socialist does not fear to die. Russians feared. Capitalists were/are already sh*tting in their pants.


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