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Poland - exhuming Smolensk victims


cms 9 | 1,272
2 Nov 2016  #1
I am sure this thread will descend into madness quite quickly but just wondering if any of the normal PiS supporters on here think this is a bad idea. At a family dinner after the grave visiting yesterday I was surprised how many PiS loving aunts and uncles thought this was a ghoulish and disrespectful thing to do. There were a few people however who thought it normal.
smurf 39 | 1,982
2 Nov 2016  #2
They're just prolonging the conspiracy theory myth, while PiS are in govt they can't back down from their belief that the Ruskies or the Krauts were involved, we've had enough enquiries showing that it was pilot error & bad weather that was the cause and it's just really, really shameful that they're going to such lengths to 'save face'

If they had any proof of a conspiracy it'd come out long ago, that ghastly movie should've been the end of the discussion once and for all

But to lighten the mood.....
Who has the nicest legs in Wawel?
The air-stewardess' in Maria Kaczynski's grave
mafketis 19 | 7,015
2 Nov 2016  #3
Good news everybody! The Good Change Government wants to exhume all the Smolensk bodies whether the families of the deceased agree or not!

fakty.tvn24.pl/ogladaj-online,60/czesc-rodzin-ofiar-katastrofy-smolenskiej-nie-chce-ekshumacji,684264.html

Good news and graverobbing all wrapped up in one!
OP cms 9 | 1,272
2 Nov 2016  #4
what surprised me is that quite a few of the families are in favor of it - jaw dropping. But I suppose their decision.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
30 May 2017  #5
exhume all the Smolensk bodies

Kopacz is being summoned to testify at the Smolensk commission for her part in the PO misburial scandal, another of her party's contributions to Poland. Kopacz assured the Russians that the coffins would never be reopened in Poland, and that gave them free rein in carrying out what could well be called the Katyń-2 atrocity. This time the vicitms were dead bodies which were subjected to typical Muscovite bestiality. The families finding alien body partrs in their love one's coffins are filled with shock and disgust and recall Kopacz's public assurances that everything was carried out properly, efficiently and professionally. She and oher PO higher-ups actually thanked the Russians for their "kind assisatnce" and competent handling of the situaiton.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
31 May 2017  #6
Kopacz

In the latest update of the PO misburial scandalk, Kopacz testified for 4 horus today. Upon leaving the porsecutor's office she told reproters she was not at liberty to divulge aht went on, citing some paragraph of the criminal code. Meanwhile, PiS MPJacek Świat, who lost his wife in the disaster, said: "In my wife's coffin the remains of other vicitms have also been discovered. There are more such incidents. This was no ordinary slip-up nor ordinary sloppiness. It was a deliberate act to humilate us!""
mafketis 19 | 7,015
31 May 2017  #7
In the latest update of the PO misburial scandalk

I think that some people don't understand what happens to bodies in a plane crash, the idea of identifying individual victims in separate coffins is a pleasant and pretty lie to cover the fact that there are hundreds of unidentifiable parts and the only way to match everything up would be hundreds (or thousands) of separate dna tests which would delay burials for weeks or months. The coffins are more symbolic than anything...

It was a deliberate act to humilate us!""

The only people humiliating him are himself and the Smolensk Krazy Konspiracy Krowd...
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
31 May 2017  #8
what happens to bodies in a plane crash

Any reaspomnable person will garee.But why then did Kopacz go onrecord as saying the crahs site was dug up to a depth of one metre, everything was sifted through screens and each and every body part, even the tiniest fragment, was DNA-tested. One could accept that some body parts were obliterated and went missing in the blast, but how does that explain someone else's head, several odd hands and a pelvis in the coffin with the remains of one's loved one? Even a PO-defender like yourself will agree that was a bit much! And why did Kopacz agree not to open the coffins in Poland? Of course she had such orders from Tusk HQ in Warsaw.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
31 May 2017  #9
the Krauts

Don't recall Krauts ever being mentioned in this context. Admit it -- you made it up for added effect. But the Rooskies -- we wouldn't put it past them knowing their long record of wanton brutality, bestiality and stonewalling.
mafketis 19 | 7,015
31 May 2017  #10
some body parts were obliterated and went missing in the blast

there was no blast....

why did Kopacz agree not to open the coffins in Poland?

Did she have the power to make such an agreement?

Even a PO-defender like yourself

I do no support or defend any political party, I'm not a boob.
Harry
31 May 2017  #11
why then did Kopacz go onrecord as saying the crahs site was dug up to a depth of one metre, everything was sifted through screens and each and every body part, even the tiniest fragment, was DNA-tested.

Got a link to her saying that?
Ironside 47 | 9,622
31 May 2017  #12
here Harry:
youtube.com/watch?v=xpYjVEyhyjA&feature=youtu.be
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
31 May 2017  #13
Got a link

Does the world exist for you without links? She said that in 2010 and it was shown on the telly. Contact them if you don't believe it. I reckon it's only natural for PF's LL to suspect everyone else of constantly lying too.

@Ironside
Many dzienks for the link, Ironside. That should give him something to chew on!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
31 May 2017  #14
blast

Call it a crash, but there was fire all over the area so something msut have set it off.
Kopacz had no power and couldn't have agreed to anything without orders
from Tuskland's HQ. So that spreads the błame to Tusk himself and whoever else in his govt was involved, surely Arabski, Sikorski and Komorowski. But not to worry -- there's plenty of room on the State Tribunal's "ława oskarżonych" (defendants' bench) for all the PO wrong-doers involved.
mafketis 19 | 7,015
31 May 2017  #15
Call it a crash, but there was fire all over the area so something msut have set it off.

Airplane crashes are usually accompanied by fire.... jet fuel is very flammable...
Harry
31 May 2017  #16
I reckon it's only natural for PF's LL to suspect everyone else of constantly lying too.

I certainly do not assume that everybody is lying all the time, quite the reverse in fact. However, when one is reading the work of somebody who claims that the Polish police deploy invisible attack dogs and that the EU is planning to forcibly microchip all Polish babies, it's a good idea to look for a slightly more reliable source.

there was fire all over the area so something msut have set it off.

What do you think a jet aeroplane's engines run on?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
1 Jun 2017  #17
I do no support or defend any political party

Strange statement from someone who notoriously sides with one combatant of the Polish-Polish conflict. In any row -- poltical, diplomatic, marital or whatever -- only a horse-blinkered partisan would suggest only one side is always 100% right and the other 100% wrong. But, like members of the losers' club, you have nit-picked and tried to find holes in every single utterance, plan, project or act by Poland's democratically elected government. At least PF's other pro-PO partisans do not claim not to support or defend any party.
mafketis 19 | 7,015
1 Jun 2017  #18
Strange statement from someone who notoriously sides with one combatant of the Polish-Polish conflict

I agree with the current government's refusal to settle the Merkeljugend. I disagree with them about almost everything else at the root because they're against the rule of law and in favor of rule by party chairman. Nothing good can come from that.

Had they kept JK and AM on ice and tried to form a normal christian democrat government then I might be more on board with them, but until they stop desecrating the rule of law and appointing mentally ill people to high positions.... no dice.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
1 Jun 2017  #19
a normal christian democrat government

A normal, nice, polite government would have been helpless in the wake of the 8-year scamster regime serving its own elitist clique and foreign interest groups at the expense of the naiton as a whole. Billions are now being recovered as VAT fraud schemes are exposed around the country to which the former regime turned a blind eye, if not actually sharing in the spoils. The present govt had to and still has to sweep away the grime, crud and residue as well as the shakers nad movers of widespread corruption and cannot be expected to always function in kid gloves. The losers club have many if not most of the far-from-independent, politically biased courts and complaisant judges on their side, including the Supreme Court. The latter recently tried to undermine the clemency granted to corruption-basher Mariusz Kamiński, but shot themselves in the foot. The Constitution does not specify at what stage of court proceedings clemency can be granted. The only proviso is that someone sentenced by the Tribunal of State is not entitled to clemency. Those banging on about "the rule of law" conveniently sidestep it when it doesn't serve their PiS-bashing efforts. If you can rise above things for a moment, you can see how every possible legal ruse and loophole is being used to bring down the democratically elected government. And they do want to topple it by hook or by crook -- that is obvious to everyone. It is also obvious why -- to restore the comfy, poshy status quo the elitist post-communist clique had enjoyed until 2015.
Harry
1 Jun 2017  #20
The Constitution does not specify at what stage of court proceedings clemency can be granted.

You really should stop repeating everything you hear on Radio Maybach.

Article 42 clearly states that "Everyone shall be presumed innocent of a charge until his guilt is determined by the final judgment of a court." Innocent people cannot be pardoned. So by pardoning the criminal in question, that cat Duda has decided that he is guilty and thus can be pardoned, despite there not having been a final judgment of a court.

The problem that the PiSlamic State face now is that according to Article 99 of the constitution "No person sentenced to imprisonment by a final judgment for an intentional indictable offence may be elected to the Sejm or the Senate." Kaminski was sentenced, that cat Duda made the judgment final and then waived the sentence, but Kaminski still votes as an MP, making there two MPs from the PiSlamic State who vote in direct violation of the Polish constitution.
mafketis 19 | 7,015
1 Jun 2017  #21
A normal, nice, polite government would have been helpless

bvll hockey, that's the same excuse used by bad, lawless governments everywhere

serving its own elitist clique and foreign interest groups at the expense of the naiton as a whole

A cursory glance at any city shows how false that assertion is.

. The Constitution d

One of the first things that PiS did was try to destroy the constituion, they don't get to quote it now.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
1 Jun 2017  #22
cursory glance at any city

A cursory glance at any Tesco, Carrefour, Leroy Merlin, LeClerc, fancy cinemas, hotels and retsurant chains as well as the office towers housing foreign corporations shows that these are not ramshackle sheds or lean-tos becuase the woudl scare off the customers they want to fleece. But the spread between the haves and havenots as regards enjoyng the fruits of transformation has grown rather than decreased, Family 500+ may have changed that but only slightly. But not thanks to the psot-commie clique!

Article 42

One of thre preisdnetial prerogatives is found in:
Art. 139.
Prezydent Rzeczypospolitej stosuje prawo łaski. Prawa łaski nie stosuje się do osób skazanych przez Trybunał Stanu. The only stated restriction is that it does not pertain to State Tribunal ruligns. Full stop.

the criminal in question

How can you call him a crikinal when you just said one is of guilty only after a final court judgement has been handed down?

Besides, most of the judicial mafia from Rzepliński to Gersdorf are unconstitutional because judges are to be independent, impartial, apolitical, non-partisan and objective. In actuality, they are highly politicised and biased in favour of one side of the Polish-Polish dispute. The constitution does not say professional, legal, medical, academic and showbiz dynasties are to enjoy special privileges not available to "ordinary mortals" and support only the post-commie mafia, but they do. That's why President Duda is right in wanting a new constitution that will get rid of the ambiguities of the present one and sweep away the monopolistic leftist liberal slime.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
1 Jun 2017  #23
ghoulish and disrespectful

Can anything be more ghoulish and disrespecxtfulk than this! Pieces of two other bodies were found in the coffin of Polish President Lech Kaczyński, who died in the 2010 Smolensk air disaster, Deputy Prosecutor General Marek Pasionek reported. Andwhat about Kopacz who lied through her teeth that she had personally supervised the Moscow procdeedings and found everythng to be proper, professional and above board. Woudl you want your father buried in a coffin with someone else' body parts?
mafketis 19 | 7,015
1 Jun 2017  #24
. Woudl you want your father buried in a coffin with someone else' body parts?

If he had been in that type of plane crash that's probably inevitable...
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
1 Jun 2017  #25
probably inevitable...

Kopacz quote: Even the tineist body fragment was careully DNA tested. OK, body fragments can get lost, but what about an extaneous, head, hand or leg? Are you going to tell us that the president or others were ever suspected of having 3 hands or an extra pelvis. What about the two army chaplains? Or Anna Walnetynowicz or many others? Are you going to again beocme a PO mouthpiece and try explain away such gross infractions and Kopacz's devil-may-care lies? What about the cigarette butts and trash added to the coffins? Wasn't that a deliberate act of Muscovite hutzpah, hooliganism and bestiality? You probably don't even realise what a blinkered spokesman for the post-commie losers camp you have become!
mafketis 19 | 7,015
1 Jun 2017  #26
Kopacz quote: Even the tineist body fragment was careully DNA tested

I assumed at the time that that was a pretty lie so that families could have some closure. How was she to know that the ghoulish Kaczynski and the mentally deranged Macierewicz were going to wave the dead bodies like obscene rotting flags in order to gain political points by manipulating the gullible with their unhinged urge to desecrate graves?

what a blinkered spokesman for the post-commie losers camp you have become!

better that than a faithful servant of the communists....
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
1 Jun 2017  #27
communists

Those who claimed to be loyal PZPR communists merely rebadged themselves into social democrats and businessmen. The SB types in particular used their "skills" and contacts to set up private detective, security and debt-collecting agencies and nearly all of them made the transfer from PRL to post-commie Poland unscathed with no accountability for their commie-era misdeeds and crimes, And all of them support the KOD/PO losers' camp. If that company appeals to you, fine -- go for it!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
1 Jun 2017  #28
ghoulish

It was Kopacz played a ghoulish role by watching the macabre proceedings close up so she knew what was going on and then, rather than being revolted and disgusted, she and Tusk and other PO stooges including Komorowski thanked the "noble" Muscovites for their "kind assistance" and "professional handling" of the situation.

One wonders who authorised her to promise not to have the coffins opened in Warsaw? Hopefully all that information will soon be made public.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
2 Jun 2017  #29
deranged Macierewicz

Macierewicz gets routinely badmouthed and singled out for particular abuse by the "total oppositon" because there are those in their midst who fear a repeat of the "teczki" episode that might expose their PRL-era sins. The younger opposition supporters, who had played no part in the pre-1989 period, simply go with the flow. It's as simple as that.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
3 Jun 2017  #30
In case you missed it.

Other body parts found in the president's and 11 other victim's coffins.

reuters.com/article/us-poland-smolensk-kaczynski-idUSKBN18S620


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