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Don't go to Poland ... because you could end up coming back in a coffin


monia 3 | 212
31 May 2012 #211
Stopping what?

A ball hasn't been kicked yet.

A good point :)
Ironside 51 | 11,510
31 May 2012 #212
Having just watched it, it seems quite balanced.

Is it ?
somebody else thinks that timing is fishy : wsieci.rp.pl/opinie/rekiny-i-plotki/Szewach-Weiss-o-filmie-BBC-To-wyglada-jak-prowokacja
milky 13 | 1,657
31 May 2012 #213
Here's the link
personally I find there to be a very high level of racism in Poland.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
31 May 2012 #214
This 'black' guy happened to be an ex England footballer who has played the game in all levels for clubs like England, Arsenal, Newcastle United and Tottenham Hotspur. This 'black' guy obviously knows what he is talking about having suffered from racial abuse in his past.

And how much of the racism did he receive from Polish/Ukrainian fans?

It isn't the point that this is not a problem, or that it exists, it is that based on selective reporting that Campbell can make such a statement.
milky 13 | 1,657
31 May 2012 #215
minute 21.30 says it all..

BLOCKS..
With so many people forced to live in such inhumane cages, is it any surprise that they behave like animals.

minute 10.34

what do you expect,,even the poor idiot Nazi who brings Kemp to his home ,just look...

A husband and wife with their child living in one room in a block..
The source to the problem is more economical than historical..
martins35 - | 2
31 May 2012 #216
I have lived in London all my life and only once have i been caught up in an unsavory incident. I personally think the majority of the issues lie with Ukraine and NOT Poland. I have been to Poland on many occasions and always felt safe with great hospitality. To continually go on about crime rate this, murder rate that is rather pathetic in my opinion. England is generally a very safe, prosperous and attractive place to live. You only have to look at the influx of eastern European's that have come to the UK in the last five years to understand that. I think that the work ethic that the majority of immigrants have bought to the UK is highly recommended, and i know i'd have no problem hiring people to work from these countries. Every country has it's issues, that's the way it is unfortunately.
Gustav 1 | 50
31 May 2012 #217
Interesting quotes today:

Mariusz Sokołowski, a spokesperson for the Chief of Police, expressed his disappointment that the documentary did not include Polish data concerning stadium security.

"The police department was asked to provide information for the BBC journalists, but that data was not included because it did not fit the angle of the program" stated Mr Sokołowski."

wbj.pl/article-59310-poland-defends-itself-over-bbc-polish-soccer-racism-documentary.html

Let's be honest, the BBC decided the story they wanted to tell and then went looking for the evidence, very selectively.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
31 May 2012 #218
Interesting comments:
youtube.com/watch?v=_EcN4qszVEU&feature=related
Tonetalk - | 2
31 May 2012 #219
This thread is just ridiculous. Quite funny how racist you are to each other on here.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
31 May 2012 #220
OK, I wtached it !
It is biased and if they spend month in Poland they must have been binge drinking and whoring all this time, there is no basic research, especially he has no clue about that cracovia and that Jew thingy !

Other than that ....few white power (or something like that ) murals of Legia! So? No perfect, but racists ? As I said BS,about any European country such reportage can be made!

Ukraine I will not comment is of topic!
jon357 69 | 18,457
31 May 2012 #221
minute 21.30 says it all..

BLOCKS..
With so many people forced to live in such inhumane cages, is it any

Millions of people round the world live in blocks without being hooligans. Most people who live in blocks here in Poland are perfectly normal.

There's nothing fishy about the timing - it's very topical due to the Euros. Just a shame that a certain type of poster on here thinks that a) the media should only show things about Poland that reflect a Polish point of view and b) that criticising one group of people in Poland somehow reflects badly on all of them.
gdyniaguy 1 | 281
31 May 2012 #222
And how much of the racism did he receive from Polish/Ukrainian fans?

It isn't the point that this is not a problem, or that it exists, it is that based on selective reporting that Campbell can make such a statement.

What point did he say that he'd been racially abused in Poland? Did you watch the interview?

He was interviewed as a recent ex-football who had played club and international football at all levels and had also suffered racial abuse. He was asked to respond to the video and the information that he was given...which however a small select piece of information was however Racist.
jon357 69 | 18,457
31 May 2012 #223
Hi Mate, you've misquoted me.

Good point though.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
31 May 2012 #224
There's nothing fishy about the timing - it's very topical due to the Euros. Just a shame that a certain type of poster on here thinks that a) the media should only show things about Poland that reflect a Polish point of view and b) that criticising one group of people in Poland somehow reflects badly on all of them.

for no country in Europe has an unblemished record on race, least of all one that has just seen its captain deposed and its head coach depart over an alleged racial slight. Spain has long had issues, too, best summed up by Luis Aragonés's woeful attempts to defend himself when overheard describing Thierry Henry as "a black shit" in a training ground conversation with José Antonio Reyes. "Reyes is ethnically a Gyspy," the then Spain manager said. "All I did was to motivate the Gypsy by telling him he was better than the black.

guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/may/30/euro-2012-russia-poland-ukraine
jon357 69 | 18,457
31 May 2012 #225
That quote rather defeats the point you're trying to make. It shows that racism in football in other parts of Europe is under as much, if not more, scrutiny than in Poland/Ukraine.

Just admit it, you'd much prefer it if foreign media only show the nice stuff.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
31 May 2012 #226
Terry has been scrutinised enough in the Press.

And Rio Ferdinand, one of the classiest defenders of the modern era, was left out purely because he was the brother of the player JT abused.

Your best available centre back and two centre midfielders will be sipping cocktails on the beach and your best striker will be suspended for the first three games.

Priorities, eh?
OP peterweg 37 | 2,319
31 May 2012 #227
Panorama: Stadiums of Hate - a Polish fan's response from the stands
Michał Zachodny is 24-year-old student at University of Wroclaw, studying a master's degree in journalism and social communication. You can follow Michał on Twitter and read his blog here.

Trevek 26 | 1,702
31 May 2012 #228
What point did he say that he'd been racially abused in Poland? Did you watch the interview?

He didn't, nor did I say he had. The post I was replying to explained why he had been invited to comment (as an international footballer who had personal experience of some of the issues... fair enough). However, the point was made earlier about how many different countries he'd played in. Many of those countries also have a reputation for violence and racism. Their fans will also be travelling to Poland.

Does Campbell say "Oh, and when racist Italians start throwing bananas in Poland... or when English yobs get to Poland... or the Northern ireland fans who were scrapping with Polish fans in belfast, and who hate all catholics"? No, he watches a few bits of film and makes a comment decrying a nation.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't doubt there is racism, I don't doubt there is violence and I know for a fact people get hurt (used to live in Ibrox, by the Rangers stadium). It is the use of selective journalism (Do they interview the police about anything? Do they talk about what has been done? Do they talk with a wider selection of fans?).
milky 13 | 1,657
31 May 2012 #229
Millions of people round the world live in blocks without being hooligans. Most people who live in blocks here in Poland are perfectly normal.

True, but they are inhumane conditions to live in, and if two families live in a tiny 50 meter apartment in a disgusting grey block , there will be socio-economic problems.
jon357 69 | 18,457
31 May 2012 #230
but they are inhumane conditions to live in

Don't be so silly. Some of us choose to live in blocks and they have nothing whatsoever to do with racism in football.
jarnowa 4 | 499
31 May 2012 #231
Still that was a while ago and things may have changed for the better, but you cannot deny that racialism is still active in Poland as it is everywhere.

Too bad for you, but i'm sure you knew long before this incident that not every white guy likes to see Africans migrating to Europe and chasing white women.

So you knew bad things like this could happen.

What happened him?

This innocent white guy was dragged out of a pub in north London and brutally slaughtered with knives by a gang of 20 blacks.
.
milky 13 | 1,657
31 May 2012 #232
Some of us choose to live in blocks

I disagree, nobody if given the choice would choose to live in such a sh1thole. I Know the situation and the prevalence of these monstrosities, but they are inhumane.

Polish flats

I know people get use to living in such condition, and why wouldn't they, submission is the price of sanity, but NO ONE would choose to live in a Panelák Tower Block.

Tower Blocks cause major social problems,that is a proven fact, and that's the reason they have been knocked down in the west. The fact that they are fixing them up and insulating them in Poland etc is very sad.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
31 May 2012 #233
This innocent white guy was dragged out of a pub in north London and brutally slaughtered with knives by a gang of 20 blacks.

Nothing new there, happens every week. Yet the media wheel out St. Stephen every opportunity they get.

Even though interracial crime is nearly exclusively a black on white phenomenon.

I disagree, nobody if given the choice would choose to live in such a sh1thole. I Know the situation and the prevalence of these monstrosities, but they are inhumane.

I know people who had to be forcibly removed from their Ballymun flats due to not wanting to rehoused anywhere else.

So you are wrong. As per usual.

Hooligans come from all walks off live btw.

They become addicted to the buzz of it all.
Maybe 12 | 409
1 Jun 2012 #234
The thing about this far right hool bollocks is this, exactly how many non-white people actually live in Poland and the Ukraine......answer not very many, in fact proportionately naff all.

Let me educated y'all a little. During the late 1990's and 2000's, the British government set up a honeytrap, this was Combat 18, a neo-nazi terror organization, which impart blossomed from the BNP's security detail. As Mi5 hoped, C18 attracted the more violent and extreme Neo-Nazis within the UK. Just as Mi5 had planned, so that they could keep an eye on this lot, also as planned C18 linked itself with the loyalist movement in Northern Ireland, thus allowing Mi5 better access to the loyalist elements it had not already infiltrated. The so called ideologue behind C18 is a man known as David Myatt, who is an agent provocateur ( google him, completely bizarre fellow).

Anyway what has this got to do with Poland, I hear you mumble.... well C18 in the UK imploded as planned, however, its model, it's insignia it's pseudo-socio-political message spread across the Europe far right music scene, which by the way is very much a UK/US generated subcultre, thus the Skinhead across Europe modelled themselves on ENGLISH NEO-NAZI's........

And finally..... both Poland and the Ukraine got proper f*cked by communism, therefore the chance of young people being Neo-communist in Eastern European is slim, far more appealing to the young is to swing the pendulum the other way to the extreme right.

For these people the far right provides them with a sense of self through patriotism, in an uncertain world when you can't define who and what you are it is easier to define 'the other' negatively, thus reflecting on you positively.

e.g (by the way what i am writing is about mentality not my own opinions)

Blackman stupid and lazy therefore whiteman hardworking and clever.
Jewish man dishonest therefore whiteman honest.

It is easier to define what you are not, than what you are.

So to extent this logic.
The BBC (Aunty) says Polish football supporters are racist therefore British supporters are not.
ukpolska
1 Jun 2012 #235
So you knew bad things like this could happen.

What on earth are you on about?
I am a white guy born in Sussex England and have lived here in Poland with my wife and daughter for the last 13 years, bloody presumptuous idiot. lol
Maybe 12 | 409
1 Jun 2012 #236
sorry extend not extent.... doh
strzyga 2 | 993
1 Jun 2012 #237
For these people the far right provides them with a sense of self through patriotism, in an uncertain world when you can't define who and what you are it is easier to define 'the other' negatively, thus reflecting on you positively.

Very true, unfortunately. Very good post on the whole. I see the pendulum going right mostly for the youths, born after 1990.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
1 Jun 2012 #238
I see the pendulum going right mostly for the youths,

A most welcome development.
milky 13 | 1,657
1 Jun 2012 #239
What on earth are you on about?
I am a white guy born in Sussex England and have lived here in Poland with my wife and daughter for the last 13 years, bloody presumptuous idiot. lol

hhaah, I went to bed last night wondering what that guy was talking about,,yea you're right he's an idiot..Awful situation you had,hope all has been good since.
ukpolska
1 Jun 2012 #240
It has been fine over the years and this is just one isolated example in comparison to a wonderful life I have had here with my wife and daughter.

Thankfully the wonderful Polish people I have met of which many are my very close friends, just look on them as an embarrassment and regard them as no further up the evolutionary ladder than the amoebas that climbed out of the primeval soup.

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