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Polish people's criticism of European Union


OP pawian 178 | 15,909
10 Feb 2013 #32
It doesn`t really matter. But as an expat who chose a more comfy life in US, you have no right to abuse Poles who have stayed, live and work in Poland.
Ironside 50 | 11,266
10 Feb 2013 #33
you just say anything just not address the issue.
Abuse? Those who abuse others and make a system out of it need to be-abused and not only/
Dreadnought 1 | 143
10 Feb 2013 #34
Hmmm I,m looking out of my window and here in the Podkarpacie it is snowing, so I think Pawian can call me what he likes (it costs me not one grosz, even my internet is free (deprived area so EU pays!!!)) I could jump into my UAZ and find one of these Nice EU notices I know where there is one in a village called Bystrzyce and there are too many to count out Jaslo way.....but I will stay in the warm and be a liar ha ha ha ha ha.
citizen67 6 | 191
10 Feb 2013 #35
Does the whole of Poland get free Internet, or just your area?
OP pawian 178 | 15,909
10 Feb 2013 #36
Hmmm I,m looking out of my window and here in the Podkarpacie it is snowing.

So, we shall wait till spring and then one of us will go under the table and bark off.
Dreadnought 1 | 143
10 Feb 2013 #37
Only this area gets free internet as far as I know.....there may be other areas that have applied for the money and got it. But I give a hearty round of applause to a guy in our Gmina (town council) who took the trouble to look through the interminable EU documents, find out what was available and apply for the money, then install the equipment etc. (It did get him a promotion to a much higher position and well deserved I say.) I must be getting weak or lazy!!!! last year I would have jumped at the chance to go 4 wheeling in the snow?
Crow 149 | 9,405
14 Apr 2015 #38
One needs to be very careful when criticize EU. There are short and middle run good opportunities and chances for every EU member, while also there are dangers of that membership.

In my opinion, EU should be by Poland understand as good temporary solution. Good because it offers to Poland possibility to consolidate its economy, no matter all other pro EU and contra EU arguments. At the same time, its temporary solution because on the long run, membership in EU, ultimately, means total assimilation of Poland and abandoning of unique Poland`s interests. It is clear that as one of the main centers of the Slavic civilizations and important European culture, Poland don`t have interest to represent eternal younger player for the magnates of western Europe. In one moment, Poland would for sure seize opportunity to position itself as a leading power of newly emerging block of countries of Central, South-Eastern and Eastern Europe (except Russia) that has its specific interests.
jon357 67 | 16,854
14 Apr 2015 #39
Crowe, there's no such 'emerging block' (sic) except in your imagination, support for the EU is strong in Poland which is one of the larger states and one of the key players, and no noticeable political or societal will to align the country with any so-called Slavic civilisations. Poland has a long tradition of facing westwards rather than towards the Balkans and continues to do so.
Crow 149 | 9,405
14 Apr 2015 #40
Crowe, there's no such 'emerging block' (sic) except in your imagination,

jon, with all due respect on your opinion, you mistaking here. That, or you maybe just underestimate processes that happening in Hungary, Serbia, even in Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Greece and Slovakia. Simple, there are specific interests that leads to collision of interests of these countries and interests of western Europe. Now, Poland, with all Her potentials, represent natural center for these countries. Its just the matter of time when would Poland retake her leading position among countries on the line Baltic-South Eastern Europe and, at the same time, when would Poland understand that EU membership starting to represent obstacle to Poland. To say, holds Poland. i would say, that moment is about to be relatively soon. Hey Man, Poland is center of one entire civilization... So, why would Poland obey to Brussels. Brussels is just too small for potentials of Poland.

support for the EU is strong in Poland

i absolutely agree. But, its temporary. you are blind if you don`t see processes that clearly separate interests of Poland and leading western European countries. jon, there is the deep rift already.

which is one of the larger states and one of the key players,

Poland is not that. Poland is younger partner. Its obvious.

and no noticeable political or societal will to align the country with any so-called Slavic civilisations.

please, don`t vulgarize things.

Poland is center for many Slavic countries but, Poland is also center for many non-Slavic countries on the Baltic-Danube-South Eastern European line.

Poland has a long tradition of facing westwards

yes, since before Grunwald battle, during Grunwald battle and after. With all good and bad things that brings encounters with the west of Europe.

rather than towards the Balkans

Poland has its long tradition of influence on Balkan. What is interesting, Poland`s interests never collided with Russian interests in that region. On Balkan, Poland always competed with Germany and Turkey. Here, to make things understandable, one must say that it was Germany and Turkey that violated realm of Polish interests in the region and not the opposite. Before Turks arrived and Germanics strengthened, there was natural order of things on the Baltic-Balkan line. Poles and Serbs controlled wealth/money flow.
jon357 67 | 16,854
14 Apr 2015 #41
Crowie, there is no 'processes' happening. And no particular Slavic civilisation in terms of any sort of credible political or economic alliance. Poland is firmly westward facing, a committed and enthusiastic member of the European Union and there is no particular will to change that or any sort of loyalty or even affection for the Balkans.
Harry
14 Apr 2015 #42
processes that clearly separate interests of Poland and leading western European countries

No such processes exist, as is obvious to anybody who knows anything about Poland and western Europe.

there is the deep rift already.

No there is not, as is obvious to anybody who knows anything about Poland and western Europe.

Poland has its long tradition of influence on Balkan.

Poles have no interest in the Balkans. Some people used to like going on holidays in Croatia, but now Croatia is pricing itself out of the market.

Poland is firmly westward facing, a committed and enthusiastic member of the European Union

Very much so, probably the most committed large country these days.

there is no particular will to change that or any sort of loyalty or even affection for the Balkans.

None at all really.
Crow 149 | 9,405
14 Apr 2015 #43
Crowie, there is no 'processes' happening.

you can repeat all day long that there are no those processes but, all who follow European politics knows that something went wrong. Plus, when i say European politics, considering that i am normal and precise when speak, i don`t mean EU but i point on complete Europe, not only EU as some EU politicians likes to speak; those idiots, like that they invented Europe.

No such processes exist, as is obvious to anybody who knows anything about Poland and western Europe.

my previous comment goes for you too, Harry

And no particular Slavic civilisation in terms of any sort of credible political or economic alliance.

will be, will be. Just not exclusively Slavic. It would be kind of new Commonwealth around Poland. Commonwealth that would unite interests of countries from Central, South-Eastern and Eastern Europe (except Russia). Still, Slavic culture and Polish language will dominate (we Serbs would, if God is good, control Central Bank, he, he).

Poland is firmly westward facing,

Poland`s a** is westward facing. In any sense of meaning of it. But not for long.

a committed and enthusiastic member of the European Union and there is no particular will to change that or any sort of loyalty or even affection for the Balkans.

Poles have no interest in the Balkans. Some people used to like going on holidays in Croatia, but now Croatia is pricing itself out of the market.

Heh, you two don`t know anything about politics and dares to speak.

No there is not, as is obvious to anybody who knows anything about Poland and western Europe.

Many examples already. But, for you now just one word - Hungary.

Very much so, probably the most committed large country these days.

ahhaha

None at all really.

things develop, slowly but surely.
Harry
14 Apr 2015 #44
It would be kind of new Commonwealth around Poland. Commonwealth that would unite interests of countries from Central, South-Eastern and Eastern Europe (except Russia). Still, Slavic culture and Polish language will dominate (we Serbs would, if God is good, control Central Bank, he, he).

Nobody here in Poland has any interest in that. Poland (and Poles) is focuses on the reality of the new commonwealth in Europe: the European Union. Maybe one day Serbia will be ready to join that community, we can only hope.

Poland`s a** is westward facing. In any sense of meaning of it.

Despite the obsession that some posters have with them, no country has an a**, or a penis.

Many examples already. But, for you now just one word - Hungary.

Hungary is neither Poland nor western Europe, so your word means nothing.

ahhaha

Poland is pretty much the only large Member State where all all parts of the political spectrum fully support the European Union. In other large countries there is debate about the Union (largely either 'isn't the EU too expensive' or 'we have lost our independence to the EU') but in Poland there is no debate about it.
Gosc123456
14 Apr 2015 #45
Poland is so in favor of EU simply because Poland is no.1 reciepient of EU funds and pays almost nothing to EU budget. Once Poland stop getting billions from EU, Polish people shall feel the same way as do people in Western Europe and they'll want to get out.
weeg2
15 Apr 2015 #46
Only this area gets free internet as far as I know....

the same deal is available in the whole of the EU. My brother connected up his village in Yorkshire thanks to an EU grant.

Western Europe and they'll want to get out.

Outside a minority of UK , noboby in Western Europe wants to leave the EU. And those in the UK are swivel eyed loons or idiots.
Mr Grunwald 31 | 2,103
15 Apr 2015 #47
Why would anybody leave the EU is beyond me... Why not reform it instead? Democracy! :)
Gosc123456
15 Apr 2015 #48
No, not only in UK but in all Western EU countries, a majority of people want to get out. The reason is simple, they pay to the EU budget much more than they get. Besides, EU is a vast dictatorship in which results in local élections are not even considered if against the EU (situations in Ireland, Holland and France).

@Weeg2: in most Western EU countries, there are strong anti-EU political parties, which are doing very well in major élections (ex Front National in France, and not only...).
Vox - | 175
16 Apr 2015 #49
Gosc123456

in most Western EU countries, there are strong anti-EU political parties

There are two countries where a substantial part of the population is anti-EU, Britain and France, ah and Greece.

all Western EU countries, a majority of people want to get out

That sir is simply a myth.
Harry
16 Apr 2015 #50
Once Poland stop getting billions from EU

That won't be happening any time soon though.

noboby in Western Europe wants to leave the EU.

My point was that in other large EU nations there is at least debate about the EU (whether that is reforming it or leaving it), in Poland there is virtually no debate about the EU at all. All parts of the political spectrum here support the EU (even if some of them regard it as somewhat Godless).
Crow 149 | 9,405
16 Apr 2015 #51
Why would anybody leave the EU is beyond me...

True.

Poland is so in favor of EU simply because Poland is no.1 reciepient of EU funds and pays almost nothing to EU budget.

Hand on heart, i understand Poles. We all love money. Let us be honest. So, Poles, as a sane people, even have obligation to take money. Also, taking money from the west of Europe isn`t just simple taking. No, its rather taking back what west of Europe stolen from Poles and Slavs in general.

Once Poland stop getting billions from EU, Polish people shall feel the same way as do people in Western Europe and they'll want to get out.

Great truth has been said here. Just, Poles as younger partners in EU, when decide to go out from there (ie escape), would be definitely asked to pay, maybe even with territory.

That won't be happening any time soon though.

we all hope so, we all hope so. Finally that historical moment goes in favor of Poles and not in the favor of western Europe. i personally think that Merkelica have nightmares about Poland and Greece.

Why not reform it instead?

how can one reform old granny? even if you give her younger input, i mean fresh ideas, it is still old granny.

Democracy! :)

no, they aren`t interested in that.
Gosc123456
16 Apr 2015 #52
A result of wide opened borders in EU; anybody can come and go as they wish and terrible things can happen mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/immigrant-repeatedly-banned-france-over-5527330 (murderer is Polish so relevant in PF). Poor kid and poor parents!

In Polish media too wyborcza.pl/1,75477,17763964,Horror_w_Calais_z_Polakiem_w_roli_glownej.html.
Crow 149 | 9,405
17 Apr 2015 #53
On the long run, Poland would exhaust all possibilities that EU have to offer, while would west of Europe start to hold Poland back, but, for the first time after many centuries, unable to prevent rise of Poland`s power. There will be right historical momentum. Brussels and other major western European cities would become insignificant centers to Poles. Poland shall become absolutely aware of its full potentials as regional and European leading power, with long range influences. This is just natural order of things that would occur. i clearly see that in not so distant future and look forward to it.

Day shall come for Poland to take place what rightfully belong to Her.

Živela Poljska!

Regards from Racow of Novi Sad
Vox - | 175
17 Apr 2015 #54
A result of wide opened borders in EU;

Indeed the best way to ensure everything is 100% safe would be a full control by a state.The police state for example. Something like that wouldn't have happened in the North Korea for example.

Merged: EU as an expriment that failed.

Everything is defined by its boundary.
Borders and limits define who we are and what we are and the same goes for nations or political entities!
If a human or a nation or a political entity is unable or unwilling to set clearly defined boundaries and limits and defend its integrity we can't talk about a serious case of dysfunctional personality. In a case of a political entity there is a newly coined or revived term - a failed state.

What is a failed state?
It is basically a state unable to fulfill its basic duties.
I know that EU never claimed to be a state but its main discriminant was lack of control on internal borders and more restrictive control on its external borders. In fact all that EU concept have been based on boundaries.

That particular and important function of the EU failed under an onslaught of illegal immigrants, would that means that EU itself is a failed experiment?
InPolska 11 | 1,821
8 Oct 2015 #55
of course EU is a total failure and I just "pray" every day that it collapses asap. A few countries pay for the others and their taxpayers are fed up. The European community, if any, should have been limited to the 6 first countries (Germany, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg and Italy). Except for countries like Poland, Rumania and Bulgaria getting all the money (or min. 90% thereof), EU is considered a complete disaster. I also just hope there shall be a referendum held in UK some time soon and that most UK voters voice against the EU so it'll create a movement all over the west. If (or hopefully WHEN) France gets out, it'll be EU's death. In Western Europe, at least 90% of people are AGAINST EU and it's no hazard. People are fed up of paying, of having their jobs move to cheaper countries and having borders opened to all, including crooks, thieves, criminals and terrorists.

I can't wait....
nothanks - | 640
8 Oct 2015 #56
In Western Europe, at least 90% of people are AGAINST EU and it's no hazard

False. Most Westeners are gullible Liberals.

But I agree with the rest of your post
InPolska 11 | 1,821
8 Oct 2015 #57
@Nothanks: I'm talking about the "common folks" not about the "elites" ;). People are fed up of paying and having their jobs moved to countries with cheaper labor. Of course, "elites" shall never organize referenda because they know they would lose ;)
johnny reb 30 | 5,193
8 Oct 2015 #58
People are fed up of paying and having their jobs moved to countries with cheaper labor.

Is it a Socialistic move to "distribute the wealth" or is it a Capitalistic move to make the wealthy richer.
TheOther 5 | 3,682
9 Oct 2015 #59
having their jobs move to cheaper countries

Such as Poland?
Dgytgjgjkykhff
9 Oct 2015 #60
The problem with the EU is that it's dominated by Germany and its sidekick France or let me rephrase, dominated by the German and French elites (well, that list could be expanded to some influential people in other countries too). Pretty much everyone else outside is treated as a lapdog, to be given treats or to be disciplined. I can already imagine a chihuaua on Frau Merkel's lap being fed dog treats for being a good dog.


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