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New cross war in Warsaw


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
11 Jul 2010  #1
The Polish government and president are trying to figure out a way to get rid of the wqooden crosss put up in front of the Presidential Palace in tribute to the Presidential Couple and other victims of the Smolensk disaster. The cross, surrounded by votive lamps and flowers, is a rallying point for supporters of the Kaczyńskis, but the ruling authorities have to tread luightly so as not to appear insensitive and flaunting the feelings of the victims' families, so they are trying to involve the Chruch in the cross's transfer to a church or cemtery. What's wrong with just leaving it where it is? Wasn't it the commies that used to remove floral crosses or the Katyń monument under the cover of night?
jonni 16 | 2,487    
11 Jul 2010  #2
What's wrong with just leaving it where it is?

For ever? Following that line of thought they may as well leave the decaying wreaths of flowers too.
Sokrates 8 | 3,348    
11 Jul 2010  #3
What's wrong with just leaving it where it is? Wasn't it the commies that used to remove floral crosses or the Katyń monument under the cover of night?

Its the Presidential Palace not Katyń, the cross had its place there during the mourining period now it needs to be moved, are you trying to start a bloody cult?
klakak 4 | 32    
11 Jul 2010  #4
they are trying to involve the Chruch in the cross's transfer to a church or cemtery.

What's wrong with moving it to a cemetery?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
11 Jul 2010  #5
If the Don & Bronek clique were not so petty and mean-spriited, they themselves could suggest erecting a permanent grqnite or marble cross or other memorial to mark the site where the Presidential Couple lay in state and untold thousands converged from all over Poland and queued up to 24 horus to file past their bier and pay theri respects. No, the Platforemrs haven't got a monopoly on pettiness. Jarosław Kaczyński was the only party leader who didn't show up for Komorowski's presidential-nomination ceremony. Maybe pettiness is an immanent Polish trait?!
jonni 16 | 2,487    
  11 Jul 2010  #6
they themselves could suggest erecting a permanent grqnite or marble cross or other memorial

No doubt there will be more than one.

Maybe pettiness is an immanent Polish trait?!

No more or less so than anywhere else, but some politicians in former Warsaw Pact countries are perhaps more vindictive and mean-spirited than people might be used to in western Europe or the Americas.
Ironside 47 | 9,355    
11 Jul 2010  #7
No doubt there will be more than one.

in the exact spot?
what do you want to tell us?

Maybe pettiness is an immanent Polish trait?!

What do you think ?
Maybe position between two parties are really inconsolable?!
sobieski 107 | 2,129    
11 Jul 2010  #8
PIS first tried to use the Smolensk tragedy in the elections, hence the Wawel burial - against all Polish traditions (LK can hardly be called a national hero). Now the cross thing - ammunition for the parliamentary elections?

How long can a national mourning continue - for a president who was besides grossly incompetent and partial also unpopular ?
mafketis 17 | 6,625    
11 Jul 2010  #9
Maybe pettiness is an immanent Polish trait?!

For Polish politicians, absolutely.
jonni 16 | 2,487    
11 Jul 2010  #10
in the exact spot?
what do you want to tell us?

Who suggested anything about the exact spot? Though organising a stone set in the ground shouldn't be too difficult, even for PiS supporters.
klakak 4 | 32    
11 Jul 2010  #11
Just wondering, who's idea was it to bury LK in Wawel? and who approved of it?
Seanus 15 | 19,716    
11 Jul 2010  #12
Jarosław did. It was his wish!
klakak 4 | 32    
  11 Jul 2010  #13
Ok, all I knew from my fiance in Kraków was the outrage from a lot of people about it.

and the other question, who authorized it? ok it was JK's wish, but who gave the ok?
delphiandomine 85 | 17,398    
11 Jul 2010  #14
What's wrong with just leaving it where it is?

Because the President of Poland is supposed to be (at least, in the tradition of Jaruzelski and Kwasniewski) an impartial person who is above politics. The Presidential Palace is not a place for political rallies - and let's be realistic, they're already using it as such. I'm not surprised Komorowski wants nothing to do with the palace - who wants to live somewhere when you're going to have crazed morons outside chanting political slogans?

My view? Let the cross stay, but ban politics from it. They'll soon get bored and start their hero worship elsewhere.

Having said this, all this worship is very much false idol behaviour. Perish the thought that these people are actually anti-Christians though.

but who gave the ok?

The cardinal who had responsibility for Wawel. Same guy who was JPII's right hand man, I think? And incidentally, the same guy who may very well have hid the true extent of the abuse problem from JPII too.

How long can a national mourning continue - for a president who was besides grossly incompetent and partial also unpopular ?

It'll last as long as Jaroslaw attempts to win power, unfortunately. But remember, the people taking part in this hysteria have one thing in common - a lack of education or intelligence.
Zed - | 195    
  3 Aug 2010  #16
It's appalling that the State allows such anarchy in front of presidential palace. If they did not know how to remove those cross fanatics, then why did they even plan for the cross removal today!
Olaf 6 | 956    
3 Aug 2010  #17
What's wrong with just leaving it where it is?

- I can tell you what's wrong. In fact it was illegal to put the crucifix there in the first place. Second thing is that it is a public and representative space and it should be free from any religious symbols.
Ironside 47 | 9,355    
3 Aug 2010  #18
should be free from any religious symbols.

Let's erect an monument instead !
Olaf 6 | 956    
3 Aug 2010  #19
WHY?! Of course it's possible but why there?
Harry    
3 Aug 2010  #20
It's appalling that the State allows such anarchy in front of presidential palace. If they did not know how to remove those cross fanatics, then why did they even plan for the cross removal today!

Seems to be boiling up quite nicely. Hopefully it'll still be going when I finish work, I very much fancy going over and ratcheting up the tension a few notches. With a bit of luck we'll be able to provoke the police into getting the tear gas out and giving the mohair berets a good spraying; possibly we should get balaclavaed up and pelt the 5o with bottles until they do a baton charge. Mohair away: love it!
convex 20 | 3,980    
3 Aug 2010  #21
better idea, they should have had a procession with the cross. an hour, and it's over with...
Harry    
3 Aug 2010  #22
Wow. Just seen the videos: the police had to use tear gas to stop the mohairs from kicking fcuk out of a priest. Got to love good old Catholic Christian values!
peterweg 36 | 2,314    
3 Aug 2010  #23
Don't they even know that worshipping false idol's is against the first commandment?
Ironside 47 | 9,355    
3 Aug 2010  #24
WHY?! Of course it's possible but why there?

for political reasons - its all about politic !

able to provoke the police into getting the tear gas out and giving the mohair berets a good spraying

no comment !
convex 20 | 3,980    
3 Aug 2010  #25
Don't they even know that worshipping false idol's is against the first commandment?

BLASPHEMER! LK died for your sins you heathen!
Harry    
3 Aug 2010  #26
Cross Smolensk today will not be moved - President's Office announced . After that, when the priests came to the square, where stands a crucifix and where they celebrate celebration with the crowd heard the whistles and insults . - Ubekiem you are, or priest - calling someone . Moments before advancing to the railing people are able to break the cordon of officers separating them from the cross of Smolensk and the Presidential Palace. The municipal guards to control the crowd , had to use tear gas .

Get in there!
f stop 25 | 2,514    
3 Aug 2010  #27
better idea, they should have had a procession with the cross. an hour, and it's over with...

I like the procession idea! Especially when they do it on their knees.
convex 20 | 3,980    
  3 Aug 2010  #28
Those violent hoodlums need to be thrown in jail, for a good long time.

I like the procession idea! Especially when they do it on their knees.

It would be the easy solution. If you control it, make it somber, put some sad music on, televise it, speeches by JK, BK, and some priest. Done deal. It wouldn't have much value to either party and it would be over and done with.
Bzibzioh    
3 Aug 2010  #29
Seems to be boiling up quite nicely. Hopefully it'll still be going when I finish work, I very much fancy going over and ratcheting up the tension a few notches. With a bit of luck we'll be able to provoke the police into getting the tear gas out and giving the mohair berets a good spraying; possibly we should get balaclavaed up and pelt the 5o with bottles until they do a baton charge.

That's the whole point of you living in Poland,Harry, isn't it? Political and religious provocation. I thought that Amnesty International was about human rights and fairness. Good to know for the future. I can see how it's exciting day for you.

Got to love good old Catholic Christian values!

Grotesquely unfair much?
Harry    
3 Aug 2010  #30
I can see how it's exciting day for you.

Certainly will be, we're already working out the best things to shout out to whip the crowd up. Current favourites are "The Godless EU is to blame!" "This was murder! Now the murderers want to tear down our cross!" "This is all the work of homosexuals!" "Next they'll come for Father Director!" and of course "The Jews! The Jews!".


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