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Kaczynski to be buried at Wawel ?!


angry
13 Apr 2010 #31
there is many behind, like everywhere with strange decisions... somebody has a lot of it, somebody wants more... so simple, politics is about honor, but you can bay it there. Polish people should go on the streets and protest. This is simply not right!
Khalsa - | 4
13 Apr 2010 #32
Well said Sobieski. Wish there were more Poles like you.
Moonlighting 31 | 233
13 Apr 2010 #33
facebook.com/group.php?gid=108999352469162&ref=nf

LOL :-)
OP spiritus 68 | 666
13 Apr 2010 #34
Their only claim to fame was dying in a calamatous plane crash probably caused by Kaczynski himself. Infact most Poles didnt even vote for Kaczynski !

Come on guys.

It isn't Kaczynski's fault that he's being buried at Wawel-he obviously didn't request it. His brother has a lot to answer for and his first major decision since the crash doesn't bode well for the future. A dignified retreat from politics would have won him much more respect but it appears he may try to cash in on the sympathy vote.

The decision to bury them at Wawel is an awful one in my opinion. It simply wasn't necessary. People wouldn't have batted an eyelid if Powadzki was the chosen location so whoever agreed to this has made a decision that did NOT need to be made and in turn made it very controversial.

Now instead of Poland being able to mourn it's loss it will stir up people's political and personal feelings against the Kaczynskis.

How sad.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Apr 2010 #35
It is a controversial decision. Then again, people are often buried away from where some would like them to be. For example, I'm sure those from Wadowice wish Pope JP II was buried there but he isn't. I don't think LK should be in amongst kings but, then again, he was rooted in ancient times.
Pibwl - | 50
13 Apr 2010 #36
...Neither Lenin wanted to be stuffed and shown on a Red Square...
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
13 Apr 2010 #37
It is a controversial decision. Then again, people are often buried away from where some would like them to be

Jesus Sean, i dont know whether its because you're so extremely leftist or just not Polish, its Wawel, people buried there are not only great Poles, they're human beings of huge caliber even when you disregard their nationality, its just not right.

I'm not sure protesting is right as well since there should be no divisions between us at a moment like this but still, Wawel?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Apr 2010 #38
Extremely leftist? How so? What's the criteria for greatness and how did Lech meet it?
pgtx 30 | 3,158
13 Apr 2010 #39
how did Lech meet it?

well, he didn't... that's why Powązki for him, not Wawel...
Pibwl - | 50
13 Apr 2010 #40
I think he was very patriotic and kept Poland from away from the liberal left. Maybe in a stubborn and not very diplomatic way, which many did not like, but still appreciated by others.

Last parliamentary elections showed, that most of Poles prefer liberal left to a vision of Kaczyński brothers, even if PO declares itself as rightist party as well. Note, that there was the biggest frequency of all post-1989 elections in Poland.

I wasn't a fan of Lech Kaczyński, yet I think it is sad, that we lost him this way. Now we usually see photos of smiling president, happy with his wife, and I believe, that it was true picture. It's a pity, that during his term, we usually saw him grumpy and offended.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
14 Apr 2010 #41
What's the criteria for greatness and how did Lech meet it?

He wasnt great he was average and thats that, he didnt achieve or even strive for anything that would justify Wawel.

Last parliamentary elections showed, that most of Poles prefer liberal left to a vision of Kaczyński brothers,

Way to overinterpret.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
14 Apr 2010 #42
That was the express wish of JK, wasn't it? It was more of a sympathy vote by the express consent of his twin brother.
Mr Grunwald 27 | 1,820
14 Apr 2010 #43
s I understood that 95% of the Polish nobility was wiped out courtesy of the Sauerkraut brigade during WW2.

If that is so then I am among the 5% that still are alive...

Yeah well, he was quite the most patriotic president ever so to speak but... Wawel? Hmm
Admm
14 Apr 2010 #44
So cardinal Dziwisz has provoked huge protess. You will see.
Pibwl - | 50
14 Apr 2010 #45
But now somebody (presumably his horrid brother JK) managed to arrange he will be buried in the Wawel crypt. Even worse, next to Piłsudski? That is such a scandal.

Right - knowing Jarosław, it must have been his idea. He reportedly doesn't want Lech to be buried at Powązki, because Bolesław Bierut is still there...

No president of Poland was burried at Wawel, nor even Gabriel Narutowicz, who was shot during his office. It was a place reserved for kings and commonly acknowledged national heroes, who fought for independence (Kościuszko, Józef Poniatowski, Władysław Sikorski, Piłsudski). Despite all sympathy to Maria, no person was buried there with a spouse.

I think the Field Marshal will turn in his grave - His Sanacja multicultural patriotism is for sure diametrical to the Endacja narrow-minded nationalism adhered by the Lunar Twins.

It's not so true - an infamous Giertych was a successor of Endecja (ND), while Kaczyński brothers always claimed their admiration for Piłsudski.

It looks to me JK is using two dead bodies to start the Presidential elections.

Unfortunately. It's sad, that those, who protest against this burial place, are accused of "starting divisions among the Poles" (I think, that Cracov's president Majchrowski said that).
OP spiritus 68 | 666
14 Apr 2010 #46
By saying LK shouldn't be buried at Wawel isn't a sleight on his character.

99.99 % of Poles shouldn't be buried at Wawel which makes it all the more astonishing that LK and his wife will be.

I'd rather see Lech Walesa be buried there (when he's dead of course) as at least he was a Polish and international icon in his day.
Pibwl - | 50
14 Apr 2010 #47
I'd rather see Lech Walesa be buried there (when he's dead of course) as at least he was a Polish and international icon in his day.

I don't know, in what circumstances should he die, to avoid loud protests of extreme rightist "agent"-seekers... ;->
James86
14 Apr 2010 #48
I am not sure what it is with many of the people posting on this board. I am not Polish but I was able to live there for a time as a student and have friends from all diffrent parts of that country and all diffrent backrounds and all of them have great respect for President Kaczynski, even those who had political diffrences from him.

The hatred that is is now manifesting by some for President Kaczynski veiled under the cloak of "oh he just isn't great enough for Wawel" is really reflecting badly on the people saying that. In a time of mourning and ideally national unity some people just can't resist taking a few kicks at the corpse. Shameful.

Someone mentioned the "Church-syndrome" implying that Poles have a tendency towards expressing fake devotion so as to look good in front of others. What a stupid claim, tell that to the people in line for confessional, or those praying the rosary by themselves in the church, or those putting flowers by the shrines to Mary first thing in the morning. This claim seems like the hallmark of those who are unsure as to how to deal with guilt over their own lonesome prideful rejection of faith in anyway other than implying "everyone else agrees with me, they are just too big of hypocrites to admit it."

The only sort of "syndrome" I see going on is Western-Europe-Wannabe syndrome. I think SOME (a small but very vocal group) Poles let the European/American media/pop culture and maybe work or travel abroad influence them too much and became ashamed of their nation and culture and religion for not being sufficiently post-modern, libertine, and realativist. These people get all apprensive because Poland is 'diffrent' and cuts against the grain on certain things and so they will toss their Catholic faith and Polish idenity, handed down to them by the mighty efforts and sacrifices of so many generations before them, under the bus so quickly and for what? So as to impress the hipsters they are waiting tables for in London and Frankfurt?

If President Kaczynski had a failing it was that he was not a very media-savy, public-relations kind of guy. He was his own man, he said what he meant and meant what he said. Frankly with so many dishonest politicans in the world, I find that to have been rather refreshing. He was guided by values and patriotism, he was not perfect but he strove for greater things than popularity. History will judge him well.

President Kaczynski was a great friend to America and above all, a great Polish Patriot and leader and this American was honored to have got to live in Kaczynski-era Poland. He will always be remembered as a great guy by me and any other Americans who are friends to Poland (rather than the EU or the Media.) I look forward to the day I can pay my respects to him and his wife in Wawel.
pgtx 30 | 3,158
14 Apr 2010 #49
anyway, it looks like many world leaders will be in Krakow on Sunday...
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
14 Apr 2010 #50

what a great speech.

anyway, it looks like many world leaders will be in Krakow on Sunday...

wow, so this is confirmed that he is going to be buried in Krakow?
pgtx 30 | 3,158
14 Apr 2010 #51
wow, so this is confirmed that he is going to be buried in Krakow?

seems like it... it starts in Mariacki Church at 2 pm and then Wawel... the decision was made by the family and kard. Dziwisz.... that's in Polish news...
rychlik 41 | 373
14 Apr 2010 #52
If Kaczyński is being buried here, Kaczorowski should be entitled to a spot at Wawel just as much. Kaczyński should be in Warsaw, where he was not only the mayor but also lived his life there. Hell, Kaczorowski had stated that he wanted to be buried in Kraków but they are burying him in Warsaw.

Ahahahahahahahaha- tylko w Polsce.
Bzibzioh
14 Apr 2010 #53
Despite all sympathy to Maria, no person was buried there with a spouse.

There are at least 4 wives of kings (plus 2 kids) buried there plus one king's brother.

I think this burial at Wawel Cathedral is an overkill. Besides there is not much space there left. Next to Piłsudski? I don't like that idea at all. Cathedral in Warsaw would be appropriate.

Oh, and I liked the guy.
ADsad
14 Apr 2010 #54
Dear James86,
The decission to bury Lech Kaczynski is a political one and was made by people who overused and aused their positions and our trust. It's very sad they didn't let us mourn almost 100 victims in peace.
jonni 16 | 2,485
14 Apr 2010 #55
is a political one and was made by

Made in large part by Jarosław who is an extremely shrewd political operator.
OP spiritus 68 | 666
14 Apr 2010 #56
Excellent. More protests are required. I have been lambasted by many of my dear Polish friends for not being emotional enough about this so-called tragedy.

Well I don't believe you should be lambasted for not crying (if that's what you mean) but if you're indifferent about that happened last Saturday then in my opinion that is a little cold.

It wasn't just LK who died on that plane. His wife was well respected and that's before we move onto the military leaders, clergy, relatives of Katyn victims, stewardesses and pilots.

ADSad,

Thankyou for condensing what I was trying to say into only two sentences. You've nailed it better than I did.

James86 and others, I think you're missing the point somewhat. It's not about whether LK was respected or not. There will never be a consensus so it's pointless arguing. In fact, it should be in bad taste to argue that point now but unfortunately the decision to bury him at Wawel is going to sadly spark that very debate and as ADSAD put it "It's very sad they didn't let us mourn almost 100 victims in peace."

I'm in the UK and this decision is like having Gordon Brown buried at Westminster Abbey !
richasis 1 | 420
14 Apr 2010 #57
I think he was very patriotic and kept Poland from away from the liberal left.

Quite. Just look at the results of Leftist Liberalism in the West.

Still, I agree with most here with respect to the burial location.
Olga 1 | 330
14 Apr 2010 #58
Well, you can say he did die a "martyr"...
Filios1 8 | 1,336
14 Apr 2010 #59
Olga, are you Russian?
plk123 8 | 4,150
14 Apr 2010 #60
Wawel is where Polish kings, queens and heroes are laid to their rest and I find the decision wholly inappropriate.

here, here.. i sure hope that it ain't so... kaczka is not worthy of such honor... this is actually rather upsetting to me.. who the hell thought of this dumb move??? i hope there is an outcry against this in PL..

maybe the crypts of St. John's Cathedral in Warsaw

i disagree with that.. he was no great statesman.. hell, he wasn't really even average

they shoule be buried in Warszawa...

sure but not at the cathedral.. click torq's link and see the folks that have been buried there.. kaczka is nowhere near that stature.. i am against that location too.. no way in hell..


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