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Was Kaczyński behind the presidential veto?


delphiandomine 87 | 18,463
25 Jul 2017 #31
was the very late appearance of young people in the final stretch.

It seems to me that you are accurately representing the genuine fear in the PiS ranks when they realised that young people had woken up. The poll showing 82% of young people in opposition to PiS also scared quite a few people.

Polonius, I know you're not tech-literate, but I can tell you that the tech community (for the first time) took sides, and this had a massive influence on young, technological-literate people. When you've got many influential decision-makers in the tech world openly calling on Duda to veto these laws, then it's not a surprise that young people also took to the streets.
Lyzko 28 | 7,011
25 Jul 2017 #32
Duda simply wished to assert his (quasi-)independence from Kaczynski in order to show his superiors that he's no longer a pawn. I'm sure the President has his reasons.

Interesting op-ed piece in today's New York Times written by a Polish fellow at the Institute for Social Research ("Dlaczego Trump milczy o wydarzeniach w Polsce?"), wondering why Trump has been so curiously silent regarding this matter:-)
delphiandomine 87 | 18,463
25 Jul 2017 #33
Duda simply wished to assert his (quasi-)independence from Kaczynski in order to show his superiors that he's no longer a pawn.

One theory is that Duda simply realised that if he signed this law, he would almost certainly be in the firing line if PiS lose power. The protests were growing in number, and unlike the previous ones, the numbers weren't falling.
Ironside 49 | 10,810
25 Jul 2017 #34
today's New York Tim

yuck!! in this rag? who cares?

The poll showing 82% of young people in opposition to PiS also scared quite a few people.

F... them idiots. Well... I don't think it is factual, polls schmols!
Lyzko 28 | 7,011
25 Jul 2017 #35
"Yuck, that rag..."

Ever bother to read it? The English is rather high level, I'll grant you, but at least try! If I'm willing to plow through "Rzeczpospolita" without asking for a barf bag, you can at least do the same for the NYTLOL
Ironside 49 | 10,810
25 Jul 2017 #36
The English is rather high level

I will rather stick to National Enquirer. Much higher level and some standards unlike your rag.
jon357 63 | 15,615
25 Jul 2017 #37
I will rather stick to National Enquire

That certainly reflects your political prejudices and level of discourse.
delphiandomine 87 | 18,463
25 Jul 2017 #38
F... them idiots. Well... I don't think it is factual, polls schmols!

That level of debate is exactly why tech-savvy young people are turned off from the government.
Lyzko 28 | 7,011
25 Jul 2017 #39
Indeed, from politics in general:-)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jul 2017 #40
there are millions of Poles who don't support PiS

And even more Poles do not support the PO scmaster party, their snobbish elites and the SB and TW types seeking refuge beneath the protective Platformer umbrella.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jul 2017 #41
young people also took to the streets

So you don't accept even the slightest possibility of outside influence and manipulation? What about the astroturfing? Do you really believe that Brazilians and Argentinians to a man oppose PiS and support the Polish opposition? They haven't the foggiest as to who Duda, Schetyna or Kaczyński is and their posts were all identical. A hundred thousand coincidences?

And the calls to overthrow the govnemrent Maidan style. What do you make of that?
jon357 63 | 15,615
25 Jul 2017 #42
the slightest possibility of outside influence and manipulation? What about the astroturfing?

No credible suggestion of either
Tacitus 2 | 1,214
25 Jul 2017 #43
The situation in Poland is really bizarre. I mean are there any other examples in functioning democracies where a politician without official position seems to be pulling the strings off both the president and the prime minister?
Wulkan - | 3,250
25 Jul 2017 #44
Ever bother to read it? The English is rather high level,

So it's like fake news served on a silver plate.

If I'm willing to plow through "Rzeczpospolita"

low quality toilet paper
Lyzko 28 | 7,011
26 Jul 2017 #45
Not according to the faculty of Krakow U.:-)

@Tacitus, Poland is undergoing a wrenching transition from democracy to reactionary dictatorship. You leave your justice system dependent on the whims of the ruling party and you might as well start praying. I believe that she's in much deeper trouble than Germany.

Curious as to what the pundits have to say about all this!
Ironside 49 | 10,810
26 Jul 2017 #46
That level of debate is exactly

What debate are talking about? Some angry soviet scum that lost an election more than year ago making up excuses to overthrow a legal government. That is a treason. Slogan, lies and BS doesn't merit any debate. They don't want debate. That some people fall for their propaganda so what, they manage twice for almost two years of effort, money and rabble rousing.

Do they really think that can just walk in after all this and pretend that nothing happened? What they're doing are destabilising Poland. Harming a national interest of the country. Do you think that some polls mean anything except being a tool in a propaganda war?

That certainly reflects your political prejudices and level of discourse.@ jon357

Sure Mr high and mighty. Being a commie is a crime against humanity and is lowest of the low.

Poland is undergoing a wrenching transition from democracy to reactionary dictatorship

Well Mark you either are an idiot or a liar. Could be both. Take you pick.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Jul 2017 #47
reactionary dictatorship

The reactionaries are on the "total opposition" side. Old commie Rzepliński openly said it's about having things as they were (Żeby było tak jak było!") Nothing more reactionary than wanting to restore a status quo swept into oblivion by voters in a democratic election!
Tacitus 2 | 1,214
26 Jul 2017 #48
wanting to restore a status quo swept into oblivion by voters in a democratic election!

Having a functioning rule of law is more than "status quo". And PiS didn't pledge to destroy the Judicial independence in Poland in the election campaign. And even if they did and had been elected regardless, it would be the duty of any citizen to oppose them.
Harry
26 Jul 2017 #49
a status quo swept into oblivion by voters in a democratic election!

Attracting active support of 18% of those eligible is little more than the commies managed back in the dark days. It was also far short of the parliamentary majority the PiSlamic State needed to change the constitution. When they win that majority, they can legally change the constitution. Until they do that, they'd better be sure to win 50% + 1 vote in the Sejm or a fair few of them will be going to prison.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Jul 2017 #50
Judicial independence

The rabble-rousers were chanting "wolne sądy" but they failed to add that under the thnakfully defunct PO regime they were not free of commies who had sent Solidarity activists to jail or bribe-takers in togas.
Harry
26 Jul 2017 #51
commies who had sent Solidarity activists to jail

And now the PiSlamic State's leader in the Sejm is Piotrowicz, who was a commie who had Solidarnosc activists sent to jail for crimes such as distributing unauthorised newspapers.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Jul 2017 #52
Piotrowicz

But what does he have to do with the active commie-era judges who far outniumber your one Piotrowicz. The judges still dispensing "justice"(?!) to ordinary Poles not only applied to prosecute dissidents, as you have osbsessively repeated ad nauseam, but actually have dissidents and Solidarity activists on their conscience. But then what can one expect from a hypocrite the likes of HB?
mafketis 24 | 9,102
26 Jul 2017 #53
The judges still dispensing "justice"(?!) to ordinary Poles not only applied to prosecute dissidents

You've repeated this often so I assume you can give specific examples.
jon357 63 | 15,615
26 Jul 2017 #54
I fear you may be assuming too much here.
delphiandomine 87 | 18,463
26 Jul 2017 #55
What about the astroturfing?

Yes, what about it Polonius?

oko.press/oskarzeniami-o-astroturfing-stoja-znacznej-mierze-zwolennicy-pis

Readers can see here that it is clear that it was actually PiS that indulged in this. Quite embarrassing to be caught so easily, to be honest.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
29 Jul 2017 #56
further away from democracy.

The question is: can the liberal-leftist PC construct be regarded as democratic?
It may be for the elitist in-groups it serves, but not for the majority.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
29 Jul 2017 #57
liberal-leftist PC construct be regarded as democratic?

no ,it cant work..they have the same mind construct as Hitler-they think they have mission,they always right and know whats best,and there is only one truth-their truth.

see political correctness that came out of them...can political correctness be compatible with democracy?political correctness (one way thinking and distortion of truth)its totalitarian doctrine
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
29 Jul 2017 #58
political correctnes

Political correctness was invented by Mao Tse-tung (now they spell it Dze-dong or something). There was only one verison of the turth -- Mao's current version (becuase it changed accorifng to need). Now they call it a narration largely based on liberel-leftist fake news.
jon357 63 | 15,615
29 Jul 2017 #59
it is clear that it was actually PiS that indulged in this.

They're being advised by some particularly unsavoury individuals, that Tyrmand person among them.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Jul 2017 #60
Tyrmand person among them

Better tread lightly or you'll be accused of anti-Semitism!


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