Polish Jesuits created a Facebook site for non-believers. Atheists not a total waste?

Yeah, I have a feeling that you won't be joining any religious formation any time soon. After all, "Da Vinci Code" was all truth yaknow ...

;)

Haha! Believe me I'm not on any anti-Catholic conspiracy trip. Especially not one as cretinously written as that bloody book (can't bring myself to type out its name).

I am a born Catholic. Not raised, particularly, although my Latin is unquestionably better than that of all but the higher echelons of the clergy. That said, other perspectives don't seem to me to be so very wrong, at the broad-brush level.

The jury is still out.

Wedle życzenia, mam nadzieję, że wytłumaczyłem, a nie biłem ;)

I'm still wondering if that man tried to achieve the exact opposite by writing his book? I'm sure the book sold though, which probably was his main objective. I'm also positive that the majority of the people who are in charge detest and reject such ideas.


Morality: Whatever you've been taught and believe to be good or to be bad. The meaning of life: Whatever you believe to be the meaning of life. Sexuality: Boy likes girl. Girl likes boy. Boy likes boy. Girl likes Girl. Girl likes boys and girls. Girl likes girls and boys.

:)

Simple, isn't it?

I'm sufficiently impressed!!


So what went wrong? If you don't mind me asking?


Pojętna bestia :)


Boy can't get girl so kills another boy.

It hasn't necessarily gone wrong (unless you have me down as some kind of incorrigible rake ;)) - but I can't deny that at a rational level the claims of other spiritual traditions (some of which also try to claim that there is no other possibly correct way than their own), also have merit; nor that at some other level the Russian Orthodox/Hindu/Buddhist/other ceremonies I've been party to touched something that Catholicism (more usually through the verse of Twardowski or Wojtyła than the fossilised rituals of Sunday masses immemorial) often only hinted at.

Key text: Irish writer Seamus Heaney's Nobel-winning collection of poetry, Seeing Things (1997). How to acquire the necessary wisdom to 'credit marvels'. Working on that one.

Strange how things in the offing, once they're sensed,
Convert to things foreknown;
And how what's come upon is manifest

Only in light of what has been gone through.
Seventh heaven may be
The whole truth of a sixth sense come to pass.


That was my nickname at Oxford. How the Hell did you find out? :)

Hey, I was reading the previous version :s


So you were seduced by different rituals and ornaments?

That's his problem, but here's a solution or two: Boy can't get a girl, so he looks for an older single lady. Boy can't get a girl, so he starts looking abroad. Boy can't get a girl, so he calls an escort girl. Boy can't get a girl, so he visits the red light district. Boy can't get a girl, so he improves his situation and waits for his turn. (Newsflash: There are more girls than boys!)

:)

Silly boys.

No. Certainly not in the Buddhist case, where there is an absence of either. As for the others: it's not difficult to see symbolism for what it is and go beyond that.

Let me clarify: I'm not knocking Catholicism here. At all. I'm just not convinced by the claim that it, and only it, has the monopoly on spiritual truth.

So what other religions have Catholicism is lacking, in your opinion?

That wasn't what I said - I don't see a lack in Catholicism, but I also don't necessarily see a lack elsewhere. It's the undisputed primacy of Catholicism (or any other religious system, actually) that doesn't work for me as a dogma.

Catholics are both literally and metaphorically (ie, we have much that we share) welcome in my world. But it's a world in which the Talmud or the Sufi mystics are welcome too.

In our orthodox church priests have nice big beards for example.

You're basically implying that Atheists are a waste with this question, which is a very judgemental statement, and unless I'm mistaken, Christians and Catholics like to read a book they call their Bible which contains quite a few phrases about not judging anyone?


Well, I don't know about other religions, but a lot of people who call themselves Catholics seem to miss empathy and compassion, especially towards people who don't see things their way. (Like asking people if I'm not a total waste, or asking people what's wrong with them just because they don't attach a certain label to themselves.)

:)

Ouch.

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it:

That makes all the difference.

God is the creator, life is evolution.

nope you misread it dude,
evolution is life, god was created

Last I checked, Catholics were Christians, and everybody called their Book The Bible... So if, and I say if, you are mistaken, then what does it say about the atheists, if anything? :)

Just popping in, don't bother.

I'm sure you're aware of all the different denominations within Christianity? (I just couldn't be bothered to type the whole list!)


Nothing, because I'm obviously not speaking on their behalf.

:)

I'd so prefer a catholic church with big breasted priestesses... and all

You said 'Christians and Catholics', let mi remind you. This strongly suggests you do not think Catholics are Christians. Like saying 'fruits and apples', for example. Dogs and German Shepherds. Humans and... Ok, forget it.

:)


I told you, I'm just popping in. Nothing to say about Atheists either. Not today, I am in a peaceful mood.
:)

Nah bud, you either believe or you don't.

Yeah! we should form a posse and get the fence sitting agnostics:)

Or sharpen the points on the fence forcing folk to fall off to one side or another ;)

Essentially, all believers are agnostics. The term comes from the Latin agnosco (I do not know). Since nobody can either
prove or disprove God's existence, this is a matter of faith or a lack thereof. Agnostics have enough humility to say 'I jsut don't know for sure'. Atheists are the ones who arrogantly and dogmatically claim there is no God and are waging a war against the allegdly non-existent deity and those who embrace religion.

Sry, but that is just bullsh*t.

Beeing an Atheist means just what the word implies, aka "Not beeing a Theist".

You either believe there is a God, or you don't. There is simply no middle ground there. One is either a Theist or an Atheist.

The question of whether you are sure of your belief or not is a completly different one.

I am personally an agnostic Atheist.
Meaning: I don't believe that there is a theistic deity but I don't claim to know for certain.


Essentially, Everyone is agnostic about everything.
Well, except for the good old self-evidently "Cogito ergo sum". ;)

I'd have much more respect for believers if they could just admit that none of us knows the whole and absolute truth, and that none of us have a monopoly on morality, and that there's nothing wrong with any kind of activity which obviously doesn't harm anyone.


To me it's not a matter of lacking anything, but just a matter of approaching things differently. (Lacking just sounds like I'm missing something?) The simple truth for me is that I don't know. My truth doesn't make it your truth, but your truth doesn't make it my truth either. (It's really not as complicated as it sounds!)


For me it doesn't have anything to do with humility either. I just don't know, so I'm not going to add any positive or negative connotations to that statement. (Why should I?)


I've never posted any topic titles like: ''Catholics not a total waste?'' I'm sorry, but *that* would be arrogant. I'm curious if you would've said I was being anti-clerical if I responded with something not-so-nice in return, although I hope you've noticed that I didn't.

About waging war: Last week there has been a story in the news on Dutch television about a fifteen year old student who recognized his English teacher in a prn movie he had been watching on the internet at home. Apparently his teacher had been starring in a prn movie once, long before he even became a teacher. He got fired because that fifteen year old student decided to tell everyone, and now this teacher won't ever be able to teach English on any school in Holland anymore.

Nobody knew and nobody made any problems out of this until that fifteen year old boy decided to tell everyone about the past sexual escapade of his teacher. Why do we have to destroy his whole career? Because he has had sex in front of a camera once? He had sex. So what? Can't we be mature? Why do we have to freak out about such things? He has never sexually harrassed anyone, has never committed any crimes and he has never touched any of his students. He never mixed up his private life with his professional life. That student did. And of course that student isn't allowed to watch prn according to our laws. (Not that I care, because I know I've been young and curious myself!)

I see no harm in sex between two consenting adults, whether they're doing it for money or in front of a camera or not. I would never star in a prn movie myself, because I happen to have my own ideas about love, sex and intimacy, but why should I pretend to be holier than thou? Why should I judge this man? Why should I destroy his career? He didn't cheat, he didn't lie and he most certainly didn't commit any crime.

Am I anti-clerical when I'm pointing out some people are judging other people for no good reason? Am I anti-clerical when I'm trying to defend someone - whom I believe to be innocent - from people who clearly behave as *if* they have a monopoly on what's right and what's wrong for everyone? I don't think I'm arrogant at all.

:)

However you can also argue for the existance of an invisible purple unicorn god or the flying spagetti monster god because you can not disprove the existence of them either. The point is that there is no evidence of the existance of a judo-christian god.

Perhaps you are the one being arrogant for attacking those who do not blindly follow your faith even there is not one iota of logic, reason or evidence that supports it

what the heck does that supposed to mean? P3, i think you are "christian", not Christian...

This religion also considers it wiser not to talk about God too much, because words keep you away from the true experience. Does it not resemble the commandment: You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord? ;)


One crazy buddhist's said: A belief is nothing but a repressed doubt. :)


Exactly. And that's the difference between the true spirituality and a belief system.
Believers believe in something what they've been told by people who'd also been told about it, but never experienced the true meaning of their own teachings/beliefs. So how would they know if their beliefs had no meaning?


You know what that is? HYPOCRISY. The ugliest illness of our culture :(

What would "experiencing the true meaning of their own teachings/beliefs" look like?