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Polish Jesuits created a Facebook site for non-believers. Atheists not a total waste?


Bzibzioh
19 Mar 2011 #31
However, I won't be joining Opus Dei just yet.

Yeah, I have a feeling that you won't be joining any religious formation any time soon. After all, "Da Vinci Code" was all truth yaknow ...

;)
alexw68
19 Mar 2011 #32
After all, "Da Vinci Code" was all truth yaknow ...

Haha! Believe me I'm not on any anti-Catholic conspiracy trip. Especially not one as cretinously written as that bloody book (can't bring myself to type out its name).

I am a born Catholic. Not raised, particularly, although my Latin is unquestionably better than that of all but the higher echelons of the clergy. That said, other perspectives don't seem to me to be so very wrong, at the broad-brush level.

The jury is still out.

Wedle życzenia, mam nadzieję, że wytłumaczyłem, a nie biłem ;)
A J 4 | 1,077
19 Mar 2011 #33
Aldous Huxley

I'm still wondering if that man tried to achieve the exact opposite by writing his book? I'm sure the book sold though, which probably was his main objective. I'm also positive that the majority of the people who are in charge detest and reject such ideas.

According to Gazeta Wyborcza, the 10-day retreat each day will raise such issues as morality (what is good and what is bad), the sense of life, sexaulity, etc.

Morality: Whatever you've been taught and believe to be good or to be bad. The meaning of life: Whatever you believe to be the meaning of life. Sexuality: Boy likes girl. Girl likes boy. Boy likes boy. Girl likes Girl. Girl likes boys and girls. Girl likes girls and boys.

:)

Simple, isn't it?
Bzibzioh
19 Mar 2011 #34
although my Latin is unquestionably better than that of all but the higher echelons of the clergy.

I'm sufficiently impressed!!

I am a born Catholic.

So what went wrong? If you don't mind me asking?

Wedle życzenia, mam nadzieję, że wytłumaczyłem, a nie biłem ;)

Pojętna bestia :)

Sexuality: Boy likes girl. Girl likes boy. Boy likes boy. Girl likes Girl. Girl likes boys and girls. Girl likes girls and boys.

Boy can't get girl so kills another boy.
alexw68
19 Mar 2011 #35
So what went wrong? If you don't mind me asking?

It hasn't necessarily gone wrong (unless you have me down as some kind of incorrigible rake ;)) - but I can't deny that at a rational level the claims of other spiritual traditions (some of which also try to claim that there is no other possibly correct way than their own), also have merit; nor that at some other level the Russian Orthodox/Hindu/Buddhist/other ceremonies I've been party to touched something that Catholicism (more usually through the verse of Twardowski or Wojtyła than the fossilised rituals of Sunday masses immemorial) often only hinted at.

Key text: Irish writer Seamus Heaney's Nobel-winning collection of poetry, Seeing Things (1997). How to acquire the necessary wisdom to 'credit marvels'. Working on that one.

Strange how things in the offing, once they're sensed,
Convert to things foreknown;
And how what's come upon is manifest

Only in light of what has been gone through.
Seventh heaven may be
The whole truth of a sixth sense come to pass.


Pojętna bestia :)

That was my nickname at Oxford. How the Hell did you find out? :)
Bzibzioh
19 Mar 2011 #36
Hey, I was reading the previous version :s

nor that at some other level the Russian Orthodox/Hindu/Buddhist/other ceremonies I've been party to touched something that Catholicism (more usually through the verse of Twardowski or Wojtyła than the fossilised rituals of Sunday masses immemorial) often only hinted at.

So you were seduced by different rituals and ornaments?
A J 4 | 1,077
19 Mar 2011 #37
Boy can't get girl so kills another boy.

That's his problem, but here's a solution or two: Boy can't get a girl, so he looks for an older single lady. Boy can't get a girl, so he starts looking abroad. Boy can't get a girl, so he calls an escort girl. Boy can't get a girl, so he visits the red light district. Boy can't get a girl, so he improves his situation and waits for his turn. (Newsflash: There are more girls than boys!)

:)

Silly boys.
alexw68
19 Mar 2011 #38
So you were seduced by different rituals and ornaments?

No. Certainly not in the Buddhist case, where there is an absence of either. As for the others: it's not difficult to see symbolism for what it is and go beyond that.

Let me clarify: I'm not knocking Catholicism here. At all. I'm just not convinced by the claim that it, and only it, has the monopoly on spiritual truth.
Bzibzioh
19 Mar 2011 #39
I'm just not convinced by the claim that it, and only it, has the monopoly on spiritual truth.

So what other religions have Catholicism is lacking, in your opinion?
alexw68
19 Mar 2011 #40
That wasn't what I said - I don't see a lack in Catholicism, but I also don't necessarily see a lack elsewhere. It's the undisputed primacy of Catholicism (or any other religious system, actually) that doesn't work for me as a dogma.

Catholics are both literally and metaphorically (ie, we have much that we share) welcome in my world. But it's a world in which the Talmud or the Sufi mystics are welcome too.
southern 74 | 7,074
19 Mar 2011 #41
So what other religions have Catholicism is lacking

In our orthodox church priests have nice big beards for example.
A J 4 | 1,077
19 Mar 2011 #42
Atheists not a total waste?

You're basically implying that Atheists are a waste with this question, which is a very judgemental statement, and unless I'm mistaken, Christians and Catholics like to read a book they call their Bible which contains quite a few phrases about not judging anyone?

So what other religions have Catholicism is lacking, in your opinion?

Well, I don't know about other religions, but a lot of people who call themselves Catholics seem to miss empathy and compassion, especially towards people who don't see things their way. (Like asking people if I'm not a total waste, or asking people what's wrong with them just because they don't attach a certain label to themselves.)

:)

Ouch.
alexw68
19 Mar 2011 #43
In our orthodox church priests have nice big beards for example.

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it:

The beard is the thang ...
JonnyM 11 | 2,611
20 Mar 2011 #44
In our orthodox church priests have nice big beards for example.

That makes all the difference.
poland_
20 Mar 2011 #45
God is the creator, life is evolution.
smurf 39 | 1,966
20 Mar 2011 #46
nope you misread it dude,
evolution is life, god was created
nott 3 | 592
20 Mar 2011 #47
unless I'm mistaken, Christians and Catholics like to read a book they call their Bible

Last I checked, Catholics were Christians, and everybody called their Book The Bible... So if, and I say if, you are mistaken, then what does it say about the atheists, if anything? :)

Just popping in, don't bother.
A J 4 | 1,077
20 Mar 2011 #48
Last I checked, Catholics were Christians, and everybody called their Book The Bible...

I'm sure you're aware of all the different denominations within Christianity? (I just couldn't be bothered to type the whole list!)

So if, and I say if, you are mistaken, then what does it say about the atheists, if anything? :)

Nothing, because I'm obviously not speaking on their behalf.

:)
frd 7 | 1,399
20 Mar 2011 #49
I'd so prefer a catholic church with big breasted priestesses... and all
nott 3 | 592
20 Mar 2011 #50
(I just couldn't be bothered to type the whole list!)

You said 'Christians and Catholics', let mi remind you. This strongly suggests you do not think Catholics are Christians. Like saying 'fruits and apples', for example. Dogs and German Shepherds. Humans and... Ok, forget it.

:)

Nothing, because I'm obviously not speaking on their behalf.

I told you, I'm just popping in. Nothing to say about Atheists either. Not today, I am in a peaceful mood.
:)
poland_
20 Mar 2011 #51
evolution is life, god was created

Nah bud, you either believe or you don't.
SeanBM 35 | 5,793
20 Mar 2011 #52
you either believe or you don't.

Yeah! we should form a posse and get the fence sitting agnostics:)
dtaylor5632 18 | 1,999
20 Mar 2011 #53
Or sharpen the points on the fence forcing folk to fall off to one side or another ;)
OP Polonius3 990 | 12,349
20 Mar 2011 #54
Essentially, all believers are agnostics. The term comes from the Latin agnosco (I do not know). Since nobody can either
prove or disprove God's existence, this is a matter of faith or a lack thereof. Agnostics have enough humility to say 'I jsut don't know for sure'. Atheists are the ones who arrogantly and dogmatically claim there is no God and are waging a war against the allegdly non-existent deity and those who embrace religion.
TheHessian - | 17
20 Mar 2011 #55
Atheists are the ones who arrogantly and dogmatically claim ...

Sry, but that is just bullsh*t.

Beeing an Atheist means just what the word implies, aka "Not beeing a Theist".

You either believe there is a God, or you don't. There is simply no middle ground there. One is either a Theist or an Atheist.

The question of whether you are sure of your belief or not is a completly different one.

I am personally an agnostic Atheist.
Meaning: I don't believe that there is a theistic deity but I don't claim to know for certain.

Essentially, all believers are agnostics

Essentially, Everyone is agnostic about everything.
Well, except for the good old self-evidently "Cogito ergo sum". ;)
A J 4 | 1,077
20 Mar 2011 #56
Essentially, all believers are agnostics.

I'd have much more respect for believers if they could just admit that none of us knows the whole and absolute truth, and that none of us have a monopoly on morality, and that there's nothing wrong with any kind of activity which obviously doesn't harm anyone.

The term comes from the Latin agnosco (I do not know). Since nobody can either prove or disprove God's existence, this is a matter of faith or a lack thereof.

To me it's not a matter of lacking anything, but just a matter of approaching things differently. (Lacking just sounds like I'm missing something?) The simple truth for me is that I don't know. My truth doesn't make it your truth, but your truth doesn't make it my truth either. (It's really not as complicated as it sounds!)

Agnostics have enough humility to say 'I jsut don't know for sure'.

For me it doesn't have anything to do with humility either. I just don't know, so I'm not going to add any positive or negative connotations to that statement. (Why should I?)

Atheists are the ones who arrogantly and dogmatically claim there is no God and are waging a war against the allegdly non-existent deity and those who embrace religion.

I've never posted any topic titles like: ''Catholics not a total waste?'' I'm sorry, but *that* would be arrogant. I'm curious if you would've said I was being anti-clerical if I responded with something not-so-nice in return, although I hope you've noticed that I didn't.

About waging war: Last week there has been a story in the news on Dutch television about a fifteen year old student who recognized his English teacher in a prn movie he had been watching on the internet at home. Apparently his teacher had been starring in a prn movie once, long before he even became a teacher. He got fired because that fifteen year old student decided to tell everyone, and now this teacher won't ever be able to teach English on any school in Holland anymore.

Nobody knew and nobody made any problems out of this until that fifteen year old boy decided to tell everyone about the past sexual escapade of his teacher. Why do we have to destroy his whole career? Because he has had sex in front of a camera once? He had sex. So what? Can't we be mature? Why do we have to freak out about such things? He has never sexually harrassed anyone, has never committed any crimes and he has never touched any of his students. He never mixed up his private life with his professional life. That student did. And of course that student isn't allowed to watch prn according to our laws. (Not that I care, because I know I've been young and curious myself!)

I see no harm in sex between two consenting adults, whether they're doing it for money or in front of a camera or not. I would never star in a prn movie myself, because I happen to have my own ideas about love, sex and intimacy, but why should I pretend to be holier than thou? Why should I judge this man? Why should I destroy his career? He didn't cheat, he didn't lie and he most certainly didn't commit any crime.

Am I anti-clerical when I'm pointing out some people are judging other people for no good reason? Am I anti-clerical when I'm trying to defend someone - whom I believe to be innocent - from people who clearly behave as *if* they have a monopoly on what's right and what's wrong for everyone? I don't think I'm arrogant at all.

:)
Mark76 - | 20
22 Mar 2011 #57
Since nobody can either prove or disprove God's existence..

However you can also argue for the existance of an invisible purple unicorn god or the flying spagetti monster god because you can not disprove the existence of them either. The point is that there is no evidence of the existance of a judo-christian god.

Perhaps you are the one being arrogant for attacking those who do not blindly follow your faith even there is not one iota of logic, reason or evidence that supports it
pgtx 29 | 3,145
22 Mar 2011 #58
Atheists not a total waste?

what the heck does that supposed to mean? P3, i think you are "christian", not Christian...
chichimera 1 | 186
22 Mar 2011 #59
One major religion believes that their god is "everything and nothing".

This religion also considers it wiser not to talk about God too much, because words keep you away from the true experience. Does it not resemble the commandment: You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord? ;)

Essentially, all believers are agnostics.

One crazy buddhist's said: A belief is nothing but a repressed doubt. :)

Bzibzioh: What does it mean?

Exactly. And that's the difference between the true spirituality and a belief system.
Believers believe in something what they've been told by people who'd also been told about it, but never experienced the true meaning of their own teachings/beliefs. So how would they know if their beliefs had no meaning?

He had sex. So what? Can't we be mature? Why do we have to freak out about such things?

You know what that is? HYPOCRISY. The ugliest illness of our culture :(
Bzibzioh
22 Mar 2011 #60
but never experienced the true meaning of their own teachings/beliefs.

What would "experiencing the true meaning of their own teachings/beliefs" look like?


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