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10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND!


kaliszer - | 99
23 Dec 2007 #181
You're doing the same thing you think I'm doing: You think I'm rejecting your argument by labelling it "antisemitic". So you reject my argument by labelling it as an accusation of "antisemitism".

But I'm saying something factual: There are many Poles who still hate Jews even though no Jews are in Poland any more. What is their problem?
celinski 31 | 1,258
23 Dec 2007 #182
I don't think that many Poles have problem with Jews

Thanks, just what I was thinking.

There are many Poles who still hate Jews even though no Jews are in Poland any more. What is their problem?

I think you are not looking at the bigger picture. Yes the Jewish people were victims, not the only ones though. I could go into the sin's of the Jewish toward Catholics, it would not serve to change the past. Hitlers plan was for all Polish and how many years have we heard of only the Jewish.

Maybe the Jewish need to hear of the crimes on all the people of Poland. My family is Roman Catholic and our family members were also victims. Can you tell me my pain is less because I an not Jewish?

Carol
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
23 Dec 2007 #183
There are many Poles who still hate Jews even though no Jews are in Poland any more. What is their problem?

Strange people, innit? Just as strange as some people living in Israel and still complaining about the anti-semitic Poles. Poles are non existent in Israel, so what’s their problem? :)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
23 Dec 2007 #184
What is their problem?

They don't like Aaron Spelling's TV shows.
kaliszer - | 99
23 Dec 2007 #185
Matyjasz,
If this were a forum about Israel and I kept bringing up Polish attitudes about Jews you would be right - I would have a problem. But I entered this forum about Poland, and before I wrote a single post, all over the place i see posts that talk about Jews - that they want to come back to Poland, that the "commie Jews" are still in Poland, that we're not really Jews but Khazars... and list goes on. And it's mostly nasty stuff. So I'm reacting. I'm pointing out that some of you have a Jew complex. You stop talking about Jews and I'll stop. I came into this place to learn more about Poland. I already know about Jews.

Grzegorz,
I don't like Aaron Spelling either. I'll bring that up at the next meeting of the Elders of Zion.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
23 Dec 2007 #186
all over the place i see posts that talk about Jews

There are 2 topics out of hundreds at least and both were started by non-Poles.

I don't like Aaron Spelling either. I'll bring that up at the next meeting of the Elders of Zion.

But he's dead.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
23 Dec 2007 #187
I came into this place to learn more about Poland. I already know about Jews.

I wasn't thinking about you. I'm saying something factual: There are many Jews who hate Poles even though Poles are virtually non-existent in their lifes. :)

As for anti-semitism in Poland, I think you should hear the voice of the main rabbi of Poland, Michael Schudrich, who said:

"Rozpowszechnione na świecie stereotypy są całkowicie nieprawdziwe. Kraje kojarzone z antysemityzmem, czyli niestety również Polska, w rzeczywistości wcale takie nie są. Antysemickie zachowania występują natomiast na liberalnym, wolnym Zachodzie."

"[Those] distributed stereotypes are totally untrue. Countries that are associated with anti-semitism, which unfortunately includes also Poland, are not anti-semite in reality. Whereas anti-semitic behaviors are present in liberal, free west."

Taking under consideration the fact that he actually lives in Poland he surely knows what he is saying, innit?
lesser 4 | 1,311
23 Dec 2007 #188
I'll bring that up at the next meeting of the Elders of Zion.

So we need to wait couple of years till you grow up... :)

The west is hardly liberal and probably the worst situation is in socialistic hole called France (mostly internal Semitic clashes by the way)
kaliszer - | 99
24 Dec 2007 #189
If most poles are not antisemitic that's good news.
Despite what you might think, I've been to Poland and have no complaints about the people I met. I had no experience with antisemitism (except for grafitti with a gallows hanging a star of david, and "Poland for the Poles" scribbles). I met a few Poles that were extremely friendly and hospitable, in Krakow, Lodz and in my grandfathers town, Warta. In speaking to some people I noticed a heavy pause, a hesitation, when they understood that I was from Israel. But no outright hostility. I don't need everyone to love Jews. But when I come across bigotry, as I did in some posts here, I confront it.
lesser 4 | 1,311
24 Dec 2007 #190
I don't need everyone to love Jews. But when I come across bigotry, as I did in some posts here, I confront it.

Perhaps this is what you really want to see? Otherwise you could notice that almost all people spreading anti-Jewish propaganda here aren't from Poland. This is English language forum...
kaliszer - | 99
24 Dec 2007 #191
Aren't from Poland? You don't sound so friendly to me.
lesser 4 | 1,311
24 Dec 2007 #192
You don't sound so friendly to me.

It could be explained by Newton's third law.
kaliszer - | 99
24 Dec 2007 #193
Do I sound hostile? I love Poland.
But enough about me...

You're from Gdansk, right? And you are part german. Does that mean that you are descended from the germans of Danzig when it was a german city?
lesser 4 | 1,311
24 Dec 2007 #194
Do I sound hostile?

Well, somebody asking questions like "Why are you Poles so anti-Semitic" doesn't sounds too friendly.

You're from Gdansk, right? And you are part german. Does that mean that you are descended from the germans of Danzig when it was a german city?

One of my grandmothers was German from Danzig.
kaliszer - | 99
24 Dec 2007 #195
Well, somebody asking questions like "Why are you Poles so anti-Semitic" doesn't sounds too friendly

I don't remember writing that. But anyway, I know that many Poles are not. I've spoken to Poles who are wonderful friendly people and they knew I was Israeli. But you have to admit that historically there was hostility, as there was in germany, lithuania, ukraine, russia, rumania, hungary.... Poland is spoken of more because that's where there were the most Jews (10% of the population). I'm not saying you are to blame for what people did back then, but let's be honest about history.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
24 Dec 2007 #196
but let's be honest about history.

Yes, let's be honest...it takes two to tango!...the Jews weep & wail about WWII, but yet the subject of the genocide of, what, 10-20 million Russian & Ukranian Christians and

peasants by the JEWISH bolsheviks is never mentioned by Jews...why is that?...let's be honest!
kaliszer - | 99
24 Dec 2007 #197
Pilsudski,
Using the phrase "The Jewish Bolsheviks" is demagoguery. The bolsheviks were anti-Jewish.
There were Polish communists too. So why don't you talk about "The Polish Bolsheviks".

There were Jewish communists who did terrible things. But they did them despite the fact that they were born Jewish, not because they were Jewish. Jewish communists were atheists who left the Jewish religion and broke away from their communities. People who remained Jews were persecuted by the communists. The communists dismantled jewish community organizations and sent the leaders to siberia. Then they forced three generations of Jews to abandon their way of life and assimilate. Stalin was a butcher who killed every ethnic group and even his wife. Some of his henchmen were ex-Jews and many more were ex-christians. "The Jews" as a group had nothing to do with starvation in ukraine. Individual Jews who were involved with stalin were all killed by him later. They were not mourned by the Jewish community.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
24 Dec 2007 #198
Using the phrase "The Jewish Bolsheviks" is demagoguery. The bolsheviks were anti-Jewish.
There were Polish communists too. So why don't you talk about "The Polish Bolsheviks".

This is not demogoguery...this is just the truth...the Bolshevik revolution was Jewish funded, led by Jews, and extracted Talmudic vengeance from the Russian and Ukranian peoples...Lenin was Jewish, Trotsky was Jewish and on and on...there were Polish communists, too, but most were Jewish...Communism is a Jewish invention, starting with

Karl Marx...please deny this.
kaliszer - | 99
24 Dec 2007 #199
Lenin was Jewish?! Talmudic vengeance? Funded by Jews? You're spouting paranoid nonsense lifted from crackpot websites. Not worth answering.

Goodnight
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
24 Dec 2007 #200
Lenin was Jewish?! Talmudic vengeance? Funded by Jews? You're spouting paranoid nonsense lifted from crackpot websites. Not worth answering.

Please, read the words of Winston Churchill on the nature of the Bolshevik revolution...
as far as Lenin goes, his father was Jewish, he was funded and supported by Jewish money from Germany, Britain and the US, and his children and wife spoke Yiddish...also

read about the murder of the Czar's family, and who did it...don't be afraid of history...
after all, haven't we heard about the Holocaust for years now...well, that was one of many Holocausts of the 20th Century....a short list of some Bolshevik leaders:

topix.com/forum/world/israel/TRGFNN9U3RJ2SPR99/p2
kaliszer - | 99
25 Dec 2007 #201
I admit it. I killed the Czar. I also killed Jesus. I killed Kennedy too, and also Julius Caesar. I really got to stop doing stuff like that.
lesser 4 | 1,311
25 Dec 2007 #202
Using the phrase "The Jewish Bolsheviks" is demagoguery. The bolsheviks were anti-Jewish.

Bolshevicks were not only Jewish for sure. However there were a lot of ethnic Jews among leaders of revolution is Russia. (according to my sources Lenin was not a Jew) Those Jews caused for sure more harm to people than those few Poles who collaborated with Nazis. I don't buy this argument that they were not religious. We hear often Jews complaining about Polish crimes and they never analyze whether those who committed it were really Catholic or not. Media rise often Polish question but they never talk about Jewish faults.

Funded by Jews?

Trotsky was married with daughter of Wall-Street banker. Most of Wall-Street and "120-Broadway" bankers were Jewish emigrants from Russia. They were supposed to help Bolsheviks in revolution to take over control of Russian oil fields from Czar. (So, there is not Zionist motivation here, while Bolsheviks were internationalist)

This is what my source says about this subject. However this book is about French revolution and just one chapter analyze influence of the latter on events in Russia. So, Wall-Street issue was just mentioned aside. Author refers to A.C. Sutton "Wall-Street and the Bolshevik revolution" and H. Coston "Les financiers qui menent le monde". I would need to read something more to have personal opinion.
Harry
26 Dec 2007 #203
We hear often Jews complaining about Polish crimes and they never analyze whether those who committed it were really Catholic or not.

I think that the difference would be that it is possible to be Polish without believing in the Catholic god but a Jew who doesn't believe in the Jewish god is very simply not a Jew, just as a person who doesn't believe in the Muslim god is very simply not a Muslim.
lesser 4 | 1,311
26 Dec 2007 #204
"Jewishness" is not about religion, this is ethnic origin. Judaists are more that only ethnic Jews. I have seen in other forum two American Jews arguing over this issue. If we would call "Jewish" only those religious people then for example:

- Nazis would not kill about 6 millions of Jews (plenty of non-believers don't count )
- Number of Jews in Poland would be VERY small because few of them attend to synagogues according to statistics.
- A lot of non-believers whom consider themselves Jewish would be wrong

'Muslim' refers clearly to the religion.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Dec 2007 #205
In response to Lesser's posting, it would appear to be true that 'Jewishness' is about ethnic origin but I don't agree with the Nazi point. Many Nazi officers were merely carrying out orders, cogs in the wheel if u will, under heavy pressure from Hitler. Sure, not all had a gun directly pointed at their head, but many had limited discretion. It was an absolute philosophy that had to be executed with precision, often kill or be killed. For more info on this, read the Eichmann case which was part of my International Criminal Law module, very interesting. Also, read the Nuremberg trials with the testimonies of the likes of Hess who could tell at least some of the truth without the threat of Hitler murdering him
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,093
26 Dec 2007 #206
"Jewishness" is not about religion, this is ethnic origin

I wonder about that...

What about converts? You can't convert to another ethnie!
You find white Jews, brown Jews, slavic Jews, germanic Jews, even black Jews....

I think they are a Religion, not an ethnie!

And that the Nazis opressed them as a race....well...you won't believe everything the Nazis told, won't you?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
26 Dec 2007 #207
What about converts?

It's very hard to convert to Judaism and many of them still wouldn't accept converts as real Jews.

They are for ex. black Jews but they aren't converts, they are one of "lost tribes".
lesser 4 | 1,311
26 Dec 2007 #208
You find white Jews, brown Jews, slavic Jews, germanic Jews, even black Jews....

I think they are a Religion, not an ethnie!

Those religious are Judaists. Except black Judaists, the rest rather have the same ethnic origin. (I'm not 100% sure)

you won't believe everything the Nazis told, won't you?

Tell this to millions of non-believers, those who consider themselves Jewish! :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 Dec 2007 #209
A religion must have a doctrine, Hebrew has one but Jews of various denominations don't have. They have ethnicity. But both Bratwurst Boy and Lesser are right in a way. U have dark Swedes also but that doesn't make them a religion
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
26 Dec 2007 #210
Except black Judaists, the rest rather have the same ethnic origin.

No there are 3 main groups: Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Oriental. The first one are those, who used to live in Europe, the 2nd are those from North Africa and the Middle East and 3rd are from Africa and India.

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