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10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND!


ShelleyS 14 | 2,893
5 Dec 2007 #61
also feel this should not come from Poland but the USA, Russia, England, Ukraine and France. This could cover all claims.

Why? It has nothing to do with England....WTF
samross - | 1
5 Dec 2007 #62
GUYS CHECK THIS OUT....10,000 Israeli Jews sitting in Israel are going to start claming Polish Citizenship and more importantly Polish land.....

As a jew and israeli I can tell you all for sure that the only reason israelis claim for polish citizenship is that poland is one of the countrys on eouropean union, and allot of israelis want to learn in the UK etc.

No one here wants your lands and propertys, we have enouge space here in Israel.

So all of these warry about a jewish invasion, you can go to sleep with silence...

go with peace, sam.
sana 2 | 48
5 Dec 2007 #63
I will just say something but with my simple thinking ( I do not know much about history, didn't like the subject at school, it was all so serious, of course now I appreciate it.)

With all the respect Julie.

After the war, my granndpa and gramma were about to emigrate to USA. They just jump off from the track in last moment and stayed in Poland. They worked hard, they had to live with what they have left and made this their home. They stayed becouse they were Polish and I do not think that people who left,( whatever state their houses were shoud claim rigts for the properties). Julie I think the goverment wanted the money from you to restauret the buldings. You do not feel like maybe halping but how fear would it be among the people in Poland who worked there and rebiuld Poland now to let people who had comfortable life in USA take it back? Let me Know if I am wrong, this is just my opinion based not on the history knowledge but I am willing to hear other arguments.
celinski 31 | 1,258
5 Dec 2007 #64
who worked there and rebiuld Poland now to let people who had comfortable life in USA

You are wrong. My grandfather fought in WW1 and WW11. He fought for you. How can you not see that the very soldiers that were born on Polish soil and put their lives on the line were not given this choice.

Are you unaware that the ones you say don't have this right were yesterdays hero's, given the land for "front line under Juzef Pilsudski, The Miracle at Wisla"?

His home was given to him by the State of Poland, for what he did to make Poland free. In the end you are saying you rebuilt Poland. Easy life in the USA, please think of what they did to achive this. They lost Poland to communists, got on a boat heading to a country that did not speak Polish, had to start from scratch. They were not given "comfortable life" in USA. At 51 years old after fighting his whole life for Poland now he had nothing but what was left after two war wounds. With this he worked his butt off for his family.

In 1989, he finally accepted military crosses from Poland. He was 89 years old and until HIS homeland was free he still was fighting for you. Along with every other survior that "fought for you".

So I am sorry, my family did not get on this luxury liner and head to a country that gave him anything. He worked for everything he had. Just as he had in his homeland that he spent a lifetime loving.

Carol
sana 2 | 48
5 Dec 2007 #65
You are wrong..

Yes, well so my grandfather too, and grand, grand, but still with the advantege that they never left....
celinski 31 | 1,258
5 Dec 2007 #66
with the advantege that they never left....

I must say I am glad my family did. All of my family can read, write and stand up for our rights. We had buried enough of our family. Communism was not going to take any more. I can't even begin to understand what it does to a human being to be treated the way they were. I never had to watch my children die. Babies, wifes, husbands and in the end have it be for nothing. Poland was no place for what was left.

Carol
sana 2 | 48
5 Dec 2007 #67
I must say I am glad my family did

Yeah, if it was me to make the decision which my grandparents made, I wouldn't probably get off of the track...but I wouldn't expect to get anything back what I left. As A Polish who lives abroad I can only contribute to my country by investing, buyin properties, spend my time there, visit beatiful Poland as much as I can, maybe go back when I am ready, but I do not want to get anything from Poland just for the point I am Polish.

All of my family can read, write and stand up for our rights.

All my family can too, I do not understand that point.
inkrakow
5 Dec 2007 #68
Julie I think the goverment wanted the money from you to restaurant the buildings..

Are you really not aware that property was confiscated during and after WW2?? And given away? By the government (that the Poles who were stayed did little to overthrow)? And don't make me laugh with this nonsense that the government wants money to restore buildings! Why would the legitimate owner give money to restore something they don't even officially own?!

I'm with Carol - the soldiers and their families who left Poland during or just after WW2 did not have an easy life. They worked very hard to rebuild their lives after having seen the country that they had been willing to die for taken over? Did you know that in the 1950s it wasn't possible for Poles in Poland to admit to having a relative abroad? Or for those in the West to contact their families in Poland? Can you imagine what it must have been like to have just been through a war and then have to start again in another country that was also traumatised by war, with no money, no way back, no language, no family? Do you really think that is what a "comfortable life" looks like? Please, do yourself and us a favour and stop regurgitating the nonsense that was/is peddled here in Poland about how the Polish diaspora had it easy and start talking to these people for yourself (and do it soon, as there aren't many of them left) and find out what it was really like and what they had to do to get to where they are now.
sana 2 | 48
5 Dec 2007 #69
They worked very hard to rebuild their lives after having seen the country that they had been willing to die for taken over?

Those who left in Poland worked hard to rebiuld their lives after having seen the country that they had been willing to die for taken over and rebuild the country.

I think you are more mad at me cos of the statment of my 'easy life'in USA' then you want to convince me about your rigts to claim anything in Poland.

I am sorry, I have no I idea about live in USA for Polish imigranst after war(yep I know how it is to not know the language, I am going through it second time now...) Life in Poland for me in my childhood was always about the how wonderful USA is. I can imagine how it is too be in a strnage country, no having any money, not having family, not be able to go home.( I moved to England in 2001, when Poland was not in EU, I worked and for all the money I had to pay for school, very expensive for non EU member, or pay money for visas and the risk always was that you may not be able to go back were you visiting family in Poland)

traumatised by war, with no money

tramatised by war were all the people who went through war no matter if they were staying, or going and I am not saying who is more hero here just saying about the rigts to POlsh propertis, tell me more about it what would be your selution?
celinski 31 | 1,258
5 Dec 2007 #70
I think you are more mad at me cos of the statment

This did not make me mad, more sad. When I first came to this forum I asked if the Polish people look for us like we look for them? There is more to life than money. We learned that well.

Now to hear you imply that our own people are more concerned about us coming back to get our property. I pray you say this due to your dislike of history vs. whats in your heart.

I could be your realitive in USA, Carol
sana 2 | 48
5 Dec 2007 #71
This did not make me mad, more sad. When I first came to this forum I asked if the Polish people look for us like we look for them?

In Poland we tend to idealize the life in USA, so do not take it bad. I am not concerned about you coming back Welcome!, but I do no see fear solution for boths parts like as claiming back properties. You can still prove me wrong...Well as I said I know exactly how it is to be imigrant, so you do not need to prove to me how hard it is to live in a country not knowing the language, not having family.
celinski 31 | 1,258
5 Dec 2007 #72
Life in Poland for me in my childhood was always about the how wonderful USA is

I am sure you were told this, you were told what the goverment wanted to brainwash you with. They (communist goverment) had to come up with something to hold their heads up high. You heard so much about the holocaust and Jewish that were killed, very few know the whole truth about "Our Forgotten Polish", as I call us. We were in the eastern Poland, we are Katyn and Kresy. We are Roman/Greek Catholic and Jewish. We were born in Poland. My grandfather 1900 in Rzym, Polska.

Our family cemetery is in Poland and then Siberia, So. Africa and now USA. Our documents were removed from the face of the earth. No birth, marriage, baptismal records remained. I never saw a baby picture of my father and the ones I have found, one from Siberia (concentration camp)when 3 year old died in the family. Then when my father was in refugee camps in So. Africa. This I found on the internet. Now with Poland becoming a free country, and internets, translation service we are able to search for our history. It is like the tower of babble has fallen.

Had Stalin really thought out his plan I question what he would think of his victims being able to communicate with their homeland. He spread us thoughout the nation, now we can keep our homeland close from afar.

boths parts like as claiming back properties

We never sold the property and don't worry it now belongs to Ukraine. My understanding is the ones that stayed in Poland were compensated for their property with the property taken from Germany.

So as you can see not all is what you were told.

Carol, USA
inkrakow
5 Dec 2007 #73
tell me more about it what would be your selution?

Easy - if it was taken and that can be proven, give it back or compensate. No question.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
5 Dec 2007 #74
what do you think should be done if a property's current owner has bought it legitimately and in good faith?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
5 Dec 2007 #75
Ownership is a vety basic human right but this is a special situation. Most of properties in Poland during WW2 were either destroyed or seriously damaged. Borders changed, millions of people were moved to different areas. Warsaw was completely destroyed. Anyone claiming "their property" in Warsaw wants something, which was rebuilt by people, who now usually owns nothing. Do you also think that Americans should give back all the land to natives. It was stolen, so why not ? "If not communism, we would have that property"... If not communism half of Poles would be quite wealthy people, who will pay us for that ? Santa Claus ?
Wroclaw Boy
5 Dec 2007 #76
who will pay us for that ? Santa Claus ?

No, but your priminister made a plee to the German HOS for a grant compensating atrocities caused by them in WWII, a sure fire way to decrease the EU budget I would say which of course is bringing Poland up to some kind of normal liveable standard.
sana 2 | 48
5 Dec 2007 #77
Easy - if it was taken and that can be proven, give it back or compensate. No question.

Easier said then done, as you may noticed Poland bearly could look after it's people untill 2007. Poland dosn't belong to common whealth countries yet. The one who should companset for everyone are the one who coused the lost.
inkrakow
5 Dec 2007 #78
what do you think should be done if a property's current owner has bought it legitimately and in good faith?

Depends on who sold it and when. Surely from a legal point of view though, if something is stolen property, it can't then be bought or sold legitimately?
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
5 Dec 2007 #79
im not sure of the different laws relating to the purchase of stolen property

the example i had in mind was a property that may have exchanged hands numerous times since it was stolen and then the current owner, who had no involvement with the initial act of theft, being faced with a situation whereby the are forced to return it to a previous owner... with no recompense?

this seems as unfair to the current owner, who bought the property in good faith, as it was to the owner who had it stolen from them in the first place
Harry
5 Dec 2007 #80
The properties were all stolen by the state of Poland. So the state of Poland can give back the ones it still has and give compensation for the ones it has sold.
Frank 23 | 1,183
5 Dec 2007 #81
this seems as unfair to the current owner, who bought the property in good faith, as it was to the owner who had it stolen from them in the first place

In the UK...the word tuff.....comes to mind!!!
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
5 Dec 2007 #82
2 wrongs never did seem to make a right tho
Frank 23 | 1,183
5 Dec 2007 #83
Only the 1st wrong counts in court of law....................
z_darius 14 | 3,968
5 Dec 2007 #84
Emmm...not yours........?...you take it.......?..then stealing

Must be easy (although boring) to live in a black and white world.

but the jewish group were singled out by the Germans...to be annihilated..

They were NOT SINGLED OUT. They awere ONE OF the ethnicities to be wiped out.
celinski 31 | 1,258
5 Dec 2007 #85
properties were all stolen by the state of Poland

Before you say that you better look on the map and see what Poland used to be.

No, Poland was given the Kresy,(now Ukraine) but please look at what they lost.

If you go back they got the land back that they owned. Harry was Lwow in Poland?
Carol
Frank 23 | 1,183
6 Dec 2007 #86
Must be easy (although boring) to live in a black and white world.

So its partly right to steal.....which part...Mr 40 shades of grey?

So how many other ethnicities were part of the Final Solution........as opposed whole nations destroyed in the general mayhem and carnage of WWII?
celinski 31 | 1,258
6 Dec 2007 #87
ethnicities were part of the Final Solution

All Polish were to destroyed.

Russia took out militay "Katyn". He then went after WW1 reserve, in this group were military front line that were given their property (in exchange for their medal for bravery" for free. Other Polish military were able to purchase this property from Poland for their service. It was Ukrainians and Jewish that helped point out where they lived. This area is now "Ukraine" or "Kresy".

You may remember the families fleeing to Iran in 1942-43 this was when amnest was granted and they could not go home. Therefore when others say our families had a choice and left, no they did not have a choice. We are Roman/Greek Catholic and Jewish. One thing we had in common, we were all Polish. Stalin's plan was to wipe out any poles, we ended up becoming slaves. Stalin never expected us to live. He just figured what the heck, I'll get some work done until they die. Many did die from conditions or murdered. Many more died on the trip out of Siberia or from diease they got from conditions. To this day many families are still in Siberia because they were unable to get out in a certian time frame. They report being treated poorly. Carol
Dice 15 | 452
6 Dec 2007 #88
We are Roman/Greek Catholic and Jewish. One thing we had in common, we were all Polish.

Well said Carol, well said indeed.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
6 Dec 2007 #89
The Plan, drawing on the material collected in the preliminary stages, concluded that 31 million people would have been deported in the course of 25 years. However, in his 1942 memorandum, Dr. Wetzel revised this figure (taking into account certain territorial changes, natural increases, etc.) and arrived at a total of 51 million.

Where can I found out more info on this Leszcynski who wrote this brief article?...I can find no background on him...also, he repeats the 'gas chamber' story...as far as I have read, there was never any evidence of gas chambers used for the purpose of mass murder by the Germans.
witek 1 | 587
6 Dec 2007 #90
No, Poland was given the Kresy,(now Ukraine) but please look at what they lost.

If you go back they got the land back that they owned. Harry was Lwow in Poland?

wtf? Poland lost the Kresy (incl. Lwow) after WWII and , Poland's borders were shifted westwards, pushing the eastern border to the Curzon line. Meanwhile, the western border was moved to the Oder-Neisse line. The new Poland emerged 20% smaller by 77,500 square kilometres (29,900 sq mi). The shift forced the migration of millions of people, most of whom were Poles, Germans, Ukrainians, and Jews.




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