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Crucifixes to stay in Polish schools


Gaa 2 | 155
15 Nov 2009 #61
if European states are supposed to co-operate, PL will have to adhere to a might-be EU law to remove all crucifixes from public schools

in your dreams, it's not about crucifixes.Poland would sooner leave the EU than become its slave.
why are you so intolerant? i tolerate atheists and other religions believers.you can fight Catholicism in your country but who gives you the right to decide what is better for Poland and Poles if they disagree with it? aren't you too arrogant?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Nov 2009 #62
I have. Please elaborate with a provision. There are plenty to show that an intermediary was not intended by Christ at all.

Grace is, by definition and nature, unmerited. You believe in congruous merit, I'm sure. Protestants believe in no human merit as it is imputed by faith alone.

I did specify my question. Is the Council of Trent too much of an artificial construct?
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
15 Nov 2009 #63
No we wont and who the fock are you to even post here, you dont know anything about Poland and its history you little human trash.

See, the one who is a living proof that babies who were born without a brain are perfectly fit for survival unleashes one of his brainless efforts again. You are such a retard that even your mother probably noticed that. I have just as much right to post here as you have and we do tolerate you, don't we? And besides, I have a better job than you have :)

PS: PL is after Greece the biggest receiver of all EU countries. You better adhere :)

montesquieu-institute.eu/9353000/1/j9vvhfxcd6p0lcl/vi8pc5lxmfzk?ctx=vh7zbu35kazc

>^..^<

M-G (oops, is Sokrates hurt again? He's so easily hurt, but that's what you get with primitive mongrols like he is)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Nov 2009 #64
Lesser, how about what the Apostle Paul had to say with regards to Abraham's relationship with God? Abraham believed in God and justification was imputed to him in the absence of works.

Read Romans, lesser, it will give you all the Biblical support you need for the contention that imputation is what is needed. There are 6 roads to justification. Although you have a point in that the Apostle James contested this, declaring works to be needed.
polishcanuck 7 | 462
15 Nov 2009 #65
MareGaea

All this talk and effort coming out of you about crosses in Poland and Italy is quite funny. Your country is facing fascist Islamification and you are worried about fcuking crosses hundreds of miles away from NL??

You should worry more about keeping your homeland secular. That is where the real danger is, not in PL or I where the cross is increasingly becoming a sign of culture not religion.

Prayers before the start of classes???

In canada many kids in public schools still say prayers before 1st class each morning - my high school did - well until we got a paki student.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
15 Nov 2009 #66
Your country is facing fascist Islamification and you are worried about fcuking crosses hundreds of miles away from NL??

You have been reading Geert Wilders? He doesn't even represent 10% of Dutch society. And I've been to NL not that long ago and I can wholeheartedly say that the problem is not as big as it's been portrayed. But Geert Wilders increasingly is making a fool of himself, so I take it that the venom will be disappear by itself in due time. My homeland is secular enough and just because a populist does some unfounded opportunistic statements which he can't backup and have no other purpose than to gain votes, doesn't mean that we are being overrun by Islam.

Nevertheless, that's not the issue at stake here. The issue is that it's my opinion (and of most of the Europeans, for that matter) that public schools should be free of any religious signs, not only crucifixes, but also stars of David, Protestant crosses, et cetera. That's the way they were intended and that's the way it should be.

The crucifix as a symbol of culture? We are not gonna go back in time, are we? I respect all believers as long as they don't talk crap, but PL and I are supposed to be secular states and we had the seperation of church and state a long time ago. Bringing crucifixes back as sign of culture would mean going back to those dark old days. And it can't be intended like that.

>^..^<

M-G (don't worry about my country, that's just fine and until it's not, I will continue to give my opinion, just like anybody else in here, if it's all the same to you)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
16 Nov 2009 #67
bibletruths.net/great%20truths/GT09.htm Lesser, there is plenty to sink your teeth into here.

Lesser, why is contrition, confession and satisfaction needed when Christ has already cleansed you by grace? (Romans 4 through 8) Expiation is unclear as you forever strive for justification under Trent whereas Protestants see it as one event through imputation and not a transforming event through infusion.

Trent made up a lot of stuff without a solid Biblical foundation. Yes, Protestants reformed key elements but they didn't gloss over and superimpose things which weren't there before.

Jesus forgives sin directly. Why would God stop the power to forgive sin by himself? Why should this function be vested in a priest? That's like playing God and Judaists stand by Protestants in that they can't countenance this position either.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
16 Nov 2009 #68
Prayers before the start of class.

Personally I've never seen anything like that in Poland, If It happens anywhere It means that parents of the kids accepted that and definately no one is forced to pray If he/she doesn't want to do that. You simply have no clue about situation in Poland thinking that this is some Catholic Taliban where people are dreaming to become "progressive" homo-commies but Catholic dictatorship force them to pray under treat of death penalty by crucification.

As long as the EU finances a lot of things in PL from my (and other's) taxmoney, the opinion of those taxpayers does matter.

I would be very surprised If your family contributed more to the EU budget than mine, so spare me that pathetic financial patronisation. On the state level - you may hear about some huge amount of money Poland is getting from EU but in reality If you compare the funds we actually get with money we pay into the common budget, exclude nonsense like gender equality trainings, include salaries of additional public workers needed to distribute that money... that's really pennies we get net, I wouldn't mind If we were getting nothing from EU, so your desperate attempt to make It look like "your taxmoney" is saving us from starvation is as pathetic as the rest of your input into this thread.

Anyway EU even with Lisbon Treaty has nothing really to say about crosses in Polish schools, so both on individual and on national level your sick stuff about forcing us to do anything is nothing else than wet dreams of a homo-commie. Besides now It is our Union too, we have the speaker of a Euro Parliament thingy, many other positions and generally much more to say than your little homo country.

The more incredible it is that ppl still believe in an institution that's abusing their children.

People (unlike homo-commies) understand that there must be some sh*t among thousands of priests/monks/nuns. According to your foolish logic people should have no trust in education, police, army, courts or any other institution as there are pedophiles, thieves and other crap found in their ranks every year.
Juche 9 | 292
16 Nov 2009 #69
The European Court ruling does not require the Polish government to remove crosses from public places

so why the fuss? In DPKR we have portrait of Dear Leader Kim Il Jong and Great Leader Kim Il Sung in every classroom and in every home. Plus we wearing badge on lapels of the dear leader, everyone wears or go to reducation camp.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,788
16 Nov 2009 #70
so why the fuss?

Because people haven't read the ruling and have listened to the usually-hysterical Polish press. Don't forget - even left leaning papers like Gazeta Wyborcza has an interest in keeping their Catholic readership - and what better way than to whip up some nonsense that doesn't even apply to Poland.

English schools are far, far worse when it comes to religious nonsense than Polish schools - despite the open displaying of crosses in Poland.
Easy_Terran 3 | 312
16 Nov 2009 #71
Christianity is a FOUNDATION of Europe we know and love. Period.
Leftists can go and F$%@ themselves.

I will be constructing a 10 foot cross to be placed in my backyard next week.

The more incredible it is that ppl still believe in an institution that's abusing their children.

Let's all convert to One And Only True Religion: rabbis are crystal clear leaders of poor, helpless retards, taking a really 'good' care of their children.

Hooray, hooray!
McCoy 27 | 1,276
16 Nov 2009 #72
Christianity is a FOUNDATION of Europe we know and love. Period.Leftists can go and F$%@ themselves.

120% right.

respect white, christian Europe or fcuk off
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
16 Nov 2009 #73
money we pay

Hahahaha, that made me laugh.

I would be very surprised If your family contributed more to the EU budget than mine

Be in for a f*cking huge surprise, then.

.Poland would sooner leave the EU than become its slave

Let's see how they would make it without the EU. Some cities didn't have a decent sewer system in the early 2000's. I'm tolerant enough. I just think there should be a clear distinction between Catholic schools and public schools. Otherwise you might just have one type of school anyway. I'm not battling Catholicism at all. Everybody should believe what he wants to believe. But it's a private thing which should not be imposed on ppl who chose not to believe in that specific religion.

saving us from starvation is as pathetic as the rest of your input into this thread.

Greg, I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago. If you're doing so well, why are there millions of you abroad? I never claimed that we saved you from starvation (in fact in the 80's we sent truckloads your way to help you survive a lot of winters - so I guess we did in a way). You're a reactionairy homophobe who for some retarded reason thinks that I am homosexual. Well, I guess you're one yourself with your f*cked up paranoid chatter against them. You just need to come out of the closet, Greg.

If you compare the funds we actually get with money we pay into the common budget, exclude nonsense like gender equality trainings, include salaries of additional public workers needed to distribute that money... that's really pennies we get net, I wouldn't mind If we were getting nothing from EU

And all that costs PL 4.4 Billion Euros each year? Do you believe that yourself? Would be great as at least one person believes it then.

People (unlike homo-commies) understand that there must be some sh*t among thousands of priests/monks/nuns. According to your foolish logic people should have no trust in education, police, army, courts or any other institution as there are pedophiles, thieves and other crap found in their ranks every year.

You are such a funny person. Your complete nonsense is not even worth reacting to. God bless the reactionairy retards like you, Greg. Really, he should.

taking a really 'good' care of their children.

Yeah, they're nearly as good as the priest who doesn't mind taking some kids to the backroom for some oral examinations.

respect white, christian Europe or fcuk off

Respect has to come from two sides, you know.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
Easy_Terran 3 | 312
16 Nov 2009 #74
Yeah, they're nearly as good as the priest who doesn't mind taking some kids to the backroom for some oral examinations.

LOL,

just please remind me: how many law suits against children (too) loving rabbis are in NY alone?

Respect has to come from two sides, you know.

Indeed. From you and from your rabbi.
The rest - doesn't matter.
McCoy 27 | 1,276
16 Nov 2009 #75
Respect has to come from two sides, you know.

when im a guest i respect peoples religions, cultures and their ways of living. this is europe build on christian foundations. our home. the one who doesnt like it and doesnt respect it can fcuk off
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
16 Nov 2009 #76
McCoy

When I visit another country I do the same. I respect the values of that country and I adhere to them. But that's normal.

how many law suits against children (too) loving rabbis are in NY alone?

What exactly makes you think that I condone paedophile rabbis? I reject all children's abuse, be it a priest, a rabbi or whatever. I don't regard that as normal behaviour. So that needs to be proscecuted in any pssbl way.

Indeed. From you and from your rabbi.
The rest - doesn't matter.

Jews have been in Europe for about as long as Christians. Their respect should be mutual.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
Juche 9 | 292
16 Nov 2009 #77
this is europe build on christian foundations. our home.

actually Europe has pagan foundations, your ancestors were bare-assed worshippers of thunder and grain, lol
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
16 Nov 2009 #78
Be in for a f*cking huge surprise, then.

Yeah, let's all thank MG as he and his daddy are financing the mankind and are just getting ready to defeat the cancer, ADIS and the swine flue with their bare hands. You crush me 10 thousand times.

Let's see how they would make it without the EU.

We would be developing just like we did before the Eunuch Union thingy, there's absolutely no improvement in the economical developement in Poland after we joined the whole damn thing.

You're a reactionairy homophobe

A reactionairy ! Holy s*it, I should be sent to the Euro re-education camp, when they will show me the light of wisdom and open my medieval mind, so I finally realize that for a kid having two daddies is a damn spelnding idea and the mile stone in the progress of civilization. Give kids to the fags, ban the crosses, import a few million 3rd worlders and finally we will be allowed to proudly call ourselves really Europeans. Ja wohl !

You know what ? I and vast majority of Poles here spit on you and your nonsense and all you can do about It is wet your little homo panties and screem oy vey.
southern 75 | 7,096
16 Nov 2009 #79
there's absolutely no improvement in the economical developement in Poland after we joined the whole damn thing.

Exactly.There are other countries noticing it too.EU favours more the advanced economies.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
16 Nov 2009 #80
I can't believe the double standards I see in Europe. Well, knowing Europeans, maybe I can. White, Christian Europe is so beloved and treasured to us, is it? Well why Kosovo allowed to fall? Serbia, as an Orthodox country, lost much because of the EU. Hypocrites!!

Lesser, still waiting for your theological answers.
McCoy 27 | 1,276
16 Nov 2009 #81
actually Europe has pagan foundations, your ancestors were bare-assed worshippers of thunder and grain, lol

actually common European culture, laws and moral rules has christian foundations
Juche 9 | 292
16 Nov 2009 #82
prove your vague statement, I'm curious. and before Christianity, there was was what, no Europe?
McCoy 27 | 1,276
16 Nov 2009 #83
no, just a bunch of bare-assed worshippers of thunder and grain
Sasha 2 | 1,083
16 Nov 2009 #84
actually Europe has pagan foundations, your ancestors were bare-assed worshippers of thunder and grain, lol

and the Sun. Perun, Veles i Jarillo.
Everyone's ancestors in the long run were bare-assed.

there was was what, no Europe?

Culturally no, geographically it's always been there.
McCoy 27 | 1,276
16 Nov 2009 #85
Culturally no, geographically it's always been there.

some people dont understand that Europe is not only piece of land but also the idea. im polish and Poland through the ages changed her place on the map several times and disappeared for a while. but Poland survived and exist. because its something more than land. its a pride, its the language, its the religion, its the culture, its history, its identity ...
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
16 Nov 2009 #86
there's absolutely no improvement

What you'd expect after 5 years of membership of which now nearly half of the time the world plunged into a crisis? It took other countries decades to crawl up after WW2, even with Marshall Help and without crisis. PL will get there eventually, it just takes them as much time as it did with other countries. And if there is no improvement, maybe you should question your own politicians or the guys who are responsible for the distribution and deployment of the funds which have been made available for PL.

EU favours more the advanced economies.

Are you talking about Greece? Greece who lied about their state deficit and has now a deficit that's about 3 or 4 times as much as is agreed as standard? Greece that, unlike other countries who received a lot of help, did not manage to pull it's economy upwards?

Seanus

The double standards ppl here are referring to are for EU members, Seanus. Some of us here seem to believe that the EU is not treating them well enough, or they haven't seen any improvement. They all want it to go a bit too fast. It took other countries way more than 5 years to crawl out of the pit they were in, why is this to be expected for them then? I actually don't believe there are double standards within the EU. If there are double standards, then it's in terms of payment to the EU. Some countries have to pay 5 to 6 times as much in contribution than other countries, and getting not so much back from that same EU. I am not talking about absolute figures, I'm talking about the relative ones. Now, I'm not saying that NL or BE should receive a lot from the EU as we don't need to develop, but it's strange to hear countries that are cashing in relatively big time, complain the most about being not treated equally. I think the main problem is that they want things to happen too fast. They will get all the standards and bens of the EU, it just takes time. If you have, for example, a club in which members A,B and C pay 200 Euros per month and members D, E and F, only pay half of that and members G,H and I don't pay anything at all, it's to be expected that members A, B and C will want to have the biggest say in that club. I am not saying that this should be so as I believe in equal votes for every memberstate and equal rights and so on, but I don't want to hear from the biggest receivers that they have been treated so badly by the EU.

because its something more than land. its a pride, its the language, its the religion, its the culture, its history, its identity ...

It's a cultural entity and what defines a cultural entity above anything else? Correct, the language. But I think your description goes for any continent, McCoy.

Everyone's ancestors in the long run were bare-assed.

And if you go way and way back, we all descent from Afrika anyway :)

cheehaw

and anti semitic par excellence cheehaw is mingling in again and found another stick for the Jews whom she hates so much. Here's something for you to chew on, baby:

jesus-is-lord.com/sexabuse.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

Have a look at the table at the bottom of the page: around 1500 to 2000 cases in the US alone over the years.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

You will see that several countries have seperate pages on Wiki that deal with the history of abuse in that specific country...

And: did you miss the part that I condemn all child abuse, no matter who is guilty of it? All child molesters should rot in jail as far as I'm concerned. Be they Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or whatever.

Lets compare tax returns, eh? You know my address, call around. Lets compare tax returns. If you forget my address, head to the Jobstown Inn. Ask for Dan, the locals will direct you.

I don't go to slums. And my tax returns have been pretty decent since I've been living here. Maybe I will fetch you a job, get you off the street and put your mind to more useful things than what you're doing now.

The truth is anti-semetic. Let us look at who is leading the fight for Ireland to open her borders. All Jews. Why dont they put pressure on Israel to be more multicultural?

There are Jews from all over the world in Israƫl. Arab is an official language there besides Hebrew.

Hell, god bless Dev for turning the jew away during WW2.

I could retaliate by saying God bless Dev for turning away the Irish during the great famine, but I won't lower myself to your level. You don't see it that often nowadays, ppl with a negative IQ, but you somehow are a bright and shiny example that it is pssbl.

RevokeNice got 510 points from a possible 600 in his Leaving Cert(State exams). I am also college educated, jew boy.

I'm delighted for you. Strange that if you're acadamically educated (Hospitability it was, I seem to remember), such empty-headed bullcrap is coming out of you. And some academic you are when you don't even know where Morocco, Turkey and Guadeloupe is located.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens, tiens)
Juche 9 | 292
16 Nov 2009 #87
but Poland survived and exist. because its something more than land. its a pride, its the language, its the religion, its the culture, its history, its identity ...

..and its the inbred inability to queue up in an orderly fashion.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
16 Nov 2009 #88
a bunch of bare-assed worshippers of thunder and grain

Actually we were fine before those bloody grain worshippers turned up.
dnz 17 | 710
16 Nov 2009 #89
Good on Poland for sticking up for its identity, If only the UK had such a patriotic leader we wouldn't be in the mess we are today.

I'm not religious in the slightest but understand a lot of people are and Christianity is part of european life which should be preserved.
Juche 9 | 292
16 Nov 2009 #90
Christianity is part of european life which should be preserved.

tribes squabbling over land is a part of European life, that's the way it was and that's the way it will be. Muslims have been living in the Balkans for hundreds of years, for example. Like it or not they are here to stay.


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