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Crash of Tu-154 at Smolensk-North--could it have been a bomb in the Polish plane?


Seanus 15 | 19,715
11 Sep 2010  #211
When is it due?

Really, are Poles that bored that they have a 6 months memorial as opposed to waiting for the anniversary next April? There is going to be a Russian propaganda film tonight on TVN at 22.05. They want Poles to see their side but Poles will take a long time to really believe their version of events.
jonni 16 | 2,486
10 Oct 2010  #212
Really, are Poles that bored that they have a 6 months memorial as opposed to waiting for the anniversary next April?

Probably yes. Remember the Princess of Hearts grief-fest in the UK. Some people like that sort of thing - Poles are no exception.
Seanus 15 | 19,715
10 Oct 2010  #213
True, constant mourning! It's great that they pay their tributes but surely an anniversary is the right time for that, no?
John_Tucker - | 1
3 Mar 2016  #214
Merged: Russians made unauthorized examination of the remains of Lech Kaczynski

Russians made unauthorized examination of the remains of Lech Kaczynski
That's a hell of a scandal! They had no permission from either relatives or the Polish government to make any such examinations!
homment.com/pQeC3y7HmF
i.imgur.com/2Fdn3Xb.jpg
i.imgur.com/lHGuEm5.jpg
i.imgur.com/gby83li.jpg
Crow 141 | 7,545
14 Mar 2016  #215
Merged: Poland accuses Russia of downing presidential plane back in 2010, in an act of terrorism - opinions

Serbian media rapport under exact title - Poland accuses Russia of downing presidential plane

Considering serious nature of the topic, i underlined that its rapport by Serbian media, considering that nobody sane taking seriously BBC, CNN or Deutsche Welle, just for example. So, rapport giving citation of Polish Defense Minister Antoni Macierewicz and understand it as official stance of Poland. Russia deny accusations as 'unfounded, biased and having nothing to do with real circumstances of this plane crash'.

Poland accuses Russia of downing presidential plane

Source: Tanjug Monday, March 14, 2016 | 14:46
b92/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2016&mm=03&dd=14&nav_id=97360

p

Polish Defense Minister Antoni Macierewicz has accused Russia of being responsible for the downing the Polish presidential plane in 2010. ..... "There is no doubt about the fact that what happened was meant to deprive Poland of a leadership that was moving our nation toward independence," said the Polish minister.

i would later elaborate my personal opinion.
jon357 63 | 14,342
15 Mar 2016  #216
Poland accuses Russia of downing presidential plane back in 2010, in an act of terrorism - opinions

That guy in the picture, the one who made the comments, is obsessed with conspiracy and isn't taken seriously in Poland.
Crow 141 | 7,545
15 Mar 2016  #217
Good. i myself don`t think that Russia assassinated Lech Kaczyński. But, i contemplated on topic and came to conclusion that for sure somebody assassinated Kaczyński.

Simple, there is no Russian interest in it, while there are clear interests of some circles from western Europe and USA.

Kaczyński and PiS needed good relations with Russia and that is why, among else, as we all know, Kaczyński traveled to Russia. Kaczyński had similar problems as Duda today and source of those problems isn`t Russia. Sure, but, if Duda wants to travel to Russia, i wouldn`t exclude possibility of another tragedy. Its just that are forces who monitor both, for different reasons, Poland and Russia, still too powerful. What i want to tell you, my conspiracy theory came to conclusion that are Anglos and certain circles from the west of Europe behind assassination of Lech Kaczyński, with intent to increase rift between Poland and Russia and keep Poland dependable on EU and NATO. Interests of assassins suggest that conclusion. One just need to follow ``footprints in the snow``.
mafketis 19 | 6,890
15 Mar 2016  #218
isn't taken seriously in Poland.

He's taken seriously by the only person that matters in the Polish government. So he has a platform for his delusions.

i myself don`t think that Russia assassinated Lech Kaczyński

This forces me to consider the possibility that they did....

certain circles from the west of Europe behind assassination of Lech Kaczyński, with intent to increase rift between Poland and Russi

Well I'm sure that Tusk and Komorowski will be blamed for Smolensk if PiS decides for closer relations with Russia (because non-horrible governments won't have anything to do with them)
Crow 141 | 7,545
15 Mar 2016  #219
Tusk

we know who is behind Tusk and so, things are clear. As i already elaborated.
jon357 63 | 14,342
16 Mar 2016  #220
So he has a platform for his delusions.

One that is of course shrinking rapidly although I do think that as the PIS regime fails he and Kaczynski are likely to become even more extreme and hysterical and the silly conspiracy theories about Smolensk are one of the red herrings they are likely be extreme and nutty about not least tip draw attention from their other failings
mafketis 19 | 6,890
16 Mar 2016  #221
as the PIS regime fails he and Kaczynski are likely to become even more extreme and hysterical and the silly conspiracy theories about Smolensk are one of the red herrings they are likely be extreme and nutty about not least tip draw attention from their other failings

Yes. Extremely competent people who can get things done have no need to distract people with crazy theories. They also have no need to destroy systems of government and they don't need a media echo chamber telling them how great (and misunderstood!) they are.

The fact that PiS needs to attack the constitution, push Smolensk (non-stop) and turn public media into a mouthpiece cum echo-chamber tells the rational minded everything they need to know about them. This is why they appeal mostly do damaged and/or under-educated people. Like attracts like.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,657
16 Mar 2016  #222
i would later elaborate my personal opinion.

I'll give my personal opinion.

The Polish defence minister is mentally ill and needs sectioning.
Crow 141 | 7,545
16 Mar 2016  #223
mentally ill you say. Many says that Hitler was mentally ill.

Fact is that behind politicians stays magnates. In this case foreign magnates. Behind magnates certain interests. In this case foreign interests. But, i must admit it was remarkable professional killing, to assassinate Polish president at that moment, in that way, on Russian soil it was worth of all Anglo evil and cunningness. i only hope that would truth about this Anglo project become available one day, so that it is last Anglo mistake with Poles.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,657
16 Mar 2016  #224
i must admit it was remarkable professional killing

Stop it Crow. You are making yourself look stupid. There were three factors responsible, and we all know what they were:
1. An interfering ill fated executive, who should not have been anywhere near the cockpit, and his air force general (who also had no right to be there) viz a vie pilot error

2 The conditions. So you are saying that the Russians indulged in some James Bond double bluff, while all the time they insisted that the plane must not land there because of the fog and there being no airport technology for large planes to land on instruments?

3. The type of plane. A 737 could dance on a sixpence and take off away from danger. That plane was doomed once a certain low altitude was reached.

You seem a nice chap, so I'll let it go. The fact is that the cinemas here are going to be full of muted laughter when Krause's latest masterpiece opens.

We all should be asking about point 1, and the many millions of Euros in damages which the Polish state should be paying to the victims for criminal negligence.
Crow 141 | 7,545
16 Mar 2016  #225
well man, i`m not convinced. i just don`t trust Anglos. They just hold Poland so strong and when Poles started to escaping, Aglos just hit them in the head. They doing that even right now. Duda is on the same job as was Lech and they have same enemies.
Dougpol1 27 | 2,657
16 Mar 2016  #226
What has the proven catastrophic pilot error in this case have do with "Anglos" Crow?
Crow 141 | 7,545
16 Mar 2016  #227
i told you. Interests.
Ironside 47 | 9,585
16 Mar 2016  #228
There were three factors responsible, and we all know what they were:

Who is we? Because public knows nothing bar what Russians told them. Stop imaging that you know something that is unhealthy.

is obsessed with conspiracy and isn't taken seriously in Poland.

Well plenty of people take him seriously but that not a point isn't?
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
16 Mar 2016  #229
1. An interfering ill fated executive, who should not have been anywhere near the cockpit

No-one is saying it publicly, but it's clear that Błasik was putting a huge amount of pressure on the crew.

2 The conditions. So you are saying that the Russians indulged in some James Bond double bluff, while all the time they insisted that the plane must not land there

Not only the Russians, but also the pilots of the Yak-44 made it clear that conditions were dreadful. I'm surprised the rules for VIP flights didn't prohibit landing at airports without an ILS.

3. The type of plane.

Actually, a lot of people said the same thing - that the TU-154M was and is a decent, sturdy plane. The plane wasn't to blame, but rather a combination of factors leading to a hugely stressful situation in the cockpit and just another sad, textbook example of CFIT.

Instead of trying to find blame, we should be asking ourselves why Poles can't seem to look after their leaders properly. Then again, when you've got Duda accepting that speed limits should be broken when he's being transported, is it a surprise that they all end up having accidents?
Crow 141 | 7,545
16 Mar 2016  #230
i don`t like when some people mocking with tragedy of Polish president, when there are clear indications that man was assassinated. There are direct reasons for his assassination and indirect reasons. Direct would be to stop him to reconcile with Russia. To stop him to announce Poland`s orientation on Intermarium. To stop him and Poland to criticize NATO and EU policy on Serbia, in fact to stop him to defend Polish interests in the region. To prevent him to open Poland for foreign investors from East. To keep Poland directly controlled by certain magnates from western Europe and USA. Indirect reasons would be: To remove Lech and to give more power to Tusk (it was kind of coup d'état bu here i don`t blame Tusk for taking part in it; most probably that he wasn`t aware of plans for assassination but he seized power when it was given to him, if for nothing then at least in fear that he also may be killed by order of same circles and, he was rewarded for his loyalty to NATO and EU). Generally, to stop Lech to deflect from official NATO and EU policy, what was `justified` by security reasons for alliance.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
16 Mar 2016  #231
Actually, a lot of people said the same thing - that the TU-154M was and is a decent, sturdy plane.

Saying a bit more about this - the TU-154 was designed to land in difficult conditions throughout the Soviet Union, and as far as I remember, it was upgraded to Western avionics so there was no issue with the plane. One thing that was well documented was that the plane needed around 30m in the landing configuration to start pulling away - so they actually and simply begin the go-around way too late.

Mistakes happen, tragically.
Ironside 47 | 9,585
16 Mar 2016  #232
No-one is saying it publicly, but it's clear that Błasik was putting a huge amount of pressure on the crew.

I see, another wise crack type of dude. You know nothing and that is a fact. So stop pretending that you do.
Crow 141 | 7,545
16 Mar 2016  #233
Let me show you moment that was turning point in life of Lech Kaczynski

i do believe that most direct reason to assassinate Lech Kaczynski was to stop him to restore old Poland`s alliance with Serbians in order to re-create conditions for Intermarium. What two countries are most important if Poland wants Intermarium? First it is Hungary as the land connection to Serbia that is only regional player loyal to Poland; Second but crucial is Serbia itself as the main strategic Poland`s trump card, for far to many reasons. Among else, Serbia was/is also necessary to mediate between Poland and Russia, to convince Russians that future Intermarium isn`t threat to Russia. It because Poland need at least normal relations with Russia in order to be able to face problem s from western European side, that strongly hold Poland.

Now, back then in time of Lech Kaczynski official Poland had good relations with Hungary but was worsening relations with Serbia thanks to official NATO and EU policy. By the way, today`s Poland don`t have quite good relations with Hungary again thanks to official EU and NATO policy. With Serbia, official Poland have rather frozen relations because official Poland recognized Kosovo separation from Serbia, while there is no influential public figure that openly support Serbia. When Duda started his promotion of Intermarium, he started from Baltics. Its indicative because Baltic have no that strategic importance as Hungary and Serbia. So, its official but, events suggests that Hungary and Serbia coordinate to make moves that would support Poland`s real strategic aims. It all means that Poland have strong patriotic circles but, they are warned to be careful (by NATO and EU officials) not to cross red line, what was main Kaczynski`s mistake.

But, Poland had to follow official EU and NATO policy.

This is from Albanian propaganda web site back in 2006 >

Poland backs 'free and independent' Kosovo: Albanian president

So, this was Poland`s official policy on Serbia until the September 25, 2008, no matter that majority of Poles looked positively on Serbs. That 25th September Lech Kaczynski changed things and refused shame for what i greatly respect him. He deflected from official NATO and EU policy at UN GA. It was major scandal not only because of Poland`s president deflected from following NATO and EU in anti-Serbian policy but also because Polish president publicly (during UN GA session) criticized government of his own country and by that PM of that government Tusk. It never until that day happened in history of UN that legitimate president of one country criticize legitimate government of that same country. Rift between Lech Kaczynski and Donald Tusk was all but not naive. It was clash and fight for policy that would dominate in Poland.

Source: Poland won't open embassy in Priština

"I have never tried to hide that I consider it a mistake. However, the government's decision is legitimate, but I, too, have my competencies and I am saying with severity

This image is from the days when Lech Kaczynski decided to make a move >

Exact date of image is 27 September 2008, 18:51; Lech Kaczyński (Poland) and Boris Tadić (Serbia) - Polish President promised his support to the Serbian sovereignty; Note: on the same picture, among diplomats behind the Serbian President Tadic, there was Vuk Jeremic that time Serbian Foreign Minister and today`s President of UN GA- young Serbian diplomat who won the presidency over UN GA in 2012 thanks to support of Poland and Russia. Jeremic is also known for respect by Polish patriotic circles.

Vuk Jeremic as President of UN GA

Vuk Jeremic using Sarmatian symbolism

Back in those days in that September in 2008 year, messenger for Lech Kaczyński, i suppose was Vuk Jeremic. What Jeremic told to Kaczyński, what made that Lech Kaczyński openly confront NATO and EU policy during UN GA session and at the same time announce rift between him and Polish government with PM Tusk that Kaczyński indirectly named to be foreign factor imposed on Poland (if he oppose NATO/EU policy and then criticize his own government for following that policy, it meant that exactly that- that by opinion of Lech Kaczyński, Polish government don`t follow Polish interests by foreign interests.

So, what Vuk Jeremic told to Lech Kaczyński back in those days? i think that i can have a good guess. i think that Vuk Jeremic told two crucial sentences:

1. If official Poland adopt patriotic pro-Polish policy, Serbia would loyaly, as always work with Poland on establishment of Intermarium.
2. For that Serbia have Russian support, which also mean that Poland have green light from Russia if wants to restore Intermarium around Poland.

Katyn was opportunity for historical reconciliation between Poles and Russians. So, Kaczyński traveled to formalize that.

Rest is history ....

Then, Lech Kaczyński was stooped and Tusk gained more power. Official Poland continued to blindly follow EU and NATO dictate. Then, Duda came to power. Started where Lech was stooped, with patriotic policy but, more carefully. Still, he dared to speak of Intermarium. Branded as non-democratic man by EU and EU`s satellites within Poland.

correction of my text above

...... (if he oppose NATO/EU policy and then criticize his own government for following that policy, it meant exactly that- that by opinion of Lech Kaczyński, Polish government don`t follow Polish interests but foreign interests.


Home / News / Crash of Tu-154 at Smolensk-North--could it have been a bomb in the Polish plane?
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