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Crash of Tu-154 at Smolensk-North--could it have been a bomb in the Polish plane?


OP Olga 1 | 330
23 Apr 2010  #91
turns upside round and crashes at a decent speed

Oh, so now it turned upside down in mid-air, huh? Every 5 minutes a new convenient explanation? Do you know how much this thing weighed?

and crashes at a decent speed

It was travelling at roughly 200 km/hr... far from enough to cause it to turn "upside down."

But as has been quoted - the pilot continued the approach after being told to go around or divert.

As has been quoted by who? The very side who would have much to cover-up if this was far from an accident?

if it was a PAR approach, then they deliberately went against orders in regards to height.

Not if they were purposely and deceptively instructed.

Put your glasses on and look at the video. The cockpit itself is indeed largely intact.

Fog on the video?? You seem to oh-so-conveniently forget all the smoke from the fires.
MediaWatch 10 | 945
23 Apr 2010  #92
Sorry, guys, I also forgot to mention that the Youtube video depicting the young local boys, with the video on their camera of the plane and weather conditions at the time, has been pulled from Youtube!

Now why would they pull that Youtube video about the Smolensk Plane Crash???

Uh Oh! :(
OP Olga 1 | 330
23 Apr 2010  #93
Here's another photo of the intact cockpit: polskieradio.pl/wiadomosci/

So, much for the convenient "upside down" theory... clearly NOT the case. Why the hell would DNA be required to ID some of the crew ??? To destroy all evidence of them being shot, obviously--for those with half a brain.
Sasha 2 | 1,083
23 Apr 2010  #94
Oh, so now it turned upside down in mid-air, huh? Every 5 minutes a new convenient explanation? Do you know how much this thing weighed?

Olga, post #40 in this thread. It was said on 21st April, id est 53 posts ago. Couple days before that convex had posted link containing this info. If you don't care to read what's written one may conclude you're either a troll or challenged somehow.

far from enough to cause it to turn "upside down."

No I see you're practically lacking proper info on the issue. It got tipping after it hit the tree (the thick one) with one of his wings. No need to explain why? Speed has nothing to do with that. Btw the average speed in this path section is usually 300 km/h. Now it's too early I guess to say for sure...

Olga, the truth is that you haven't proved a single of your claims.
OP Olga 1 | 330
23 Apr 2010  #95
post #40 in this thread

Because the plane hit the ground being upside down.

The plane did not hit the ground upside down. The cockpit is rightside up. Put the crack pipe down, Sasha. Enough bullsh*t. In case you don't have a clue what a cockpit looks like, or are a paid troll...
Jed - | 165
23 Apr 2010  #96
In case you don't have a clue what a cockpit looks like

Olga, I can't read Polish, but it is not a cockpit on the first photo - it looks like an opposite part, a tail with engine.

Look here: charter97.org/en/news/2010/4/10/28038/

Because as we know, pilot's errors NEVER happen.

I don't like to blame the pilot - he can't answer. We wiil have the right to blame him only after all other possibilities studied.

And the whole flight and visit organisation are almost out of discussion - there are possible alive people sharing responsibility?
OP Olga 1 | 330
23 Apr 2010  #97
the truth is that you haven't proved a single of your claims.

That's exactly what can be said about your side. Photos and videos contradict all the lies that have been put forth. The images speak for themselves, when the dead cannot.

I don't like to blame the pilot

And how would anyone even dare when this is documented:

vipmp.com/fakty/tragedia-w-smolensku/417-wymieniali-lampy-tuz-po-katastrofie-tu-154

Tell me, Jed, why the laughter in the shooting video at 1:09? Was some sick sadist on an adrenaline rush?
Jed - | 165
23 Apr 2010  #98
And how would anyone even dare when this is documented:

In your case you already have a conclusion- Putin and Russians are guilty - and take any real or false evidence only against them.

I told many times - we are not in position to discuss technical details based on incomplete evidences and we don't have any experience for that.

On your photos - may be they testing lights or somebody ordered them to check and replace lamps - we don't know. It doesn't explain why the plane was directed to the hill several hundred metres before landing strip.
OP Olga 1 | 330
23 Apr 2010  #99
Tell me, Jed, how would you feel about if it is found your government has tried to cover-up an assassination? Because the evidence certainly seems to suggest that's exactly what's happening.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
23 Apr 2010  #100
The cockpit is rightside up. Put the crack pipe down, Sasha. Enough bullsh*t.

If that's the cockpit, then you've just admitted that in the very shaky video, it cannot be the pilot raising his hand, which is contrary to what you've claimed on here. It's not the same part of the plane - yet you've claimed that both of these are the cockpit.

Please do try and get your story straight!

As has been quoted by who? The very side who would have much to cover-up if this was far from an accident?

Are you now suggesting that the Russians are going to produce false recordings? Given that the black boxes were opened and examined in the presence of the Polish investigators, it would be quite incredible to somehow falsify the recordings.

Let's not forget that there's a third black box which was sent to Poland as it was Polish designed and operated and Russia doesn't have the technical capability to examine it.

Fog on the video?? You seem to oh-so-conveniently forget all the smoke from the fires.

So - are you saying that NASA are now involved in the cover up, as their satellite pictures clearly show fog over Smolensk-North at the time of the crash. Likewise, CNN did a rather comprehensive study of the weather conditions just after the crash and reached the same conclusion - that Smolensk-North was covered in fog. Let's not forget all the locals who have gone on record to talk about the fog - are they all involved, too?

On your photos - may be they testing lights or somebody ordered them to check and replace lamps - we don't know.

Or the photos were taken at a previous time.

Tell me, Jed, how would you feel about if it is found your government has tried to cover-up an assassination? Because the evidence certainly seems to suggest that's exactly what's happening.

Consider one thing Olga - Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the man with the most to gain if there is indeed a cover up, hasn't said a thing publicly about this. Don't you think that he would scream about this from the hills if indeed there was any credible evidence whatsoever?

Or are you suggesting that Jaroslaw Kaczynski is participating in the cover up of the murder of his own twin brother?
southern 75 | 7,097
23 Apr 2010  #101
The plane was hit by a russian missile coming from the moon finding its target by a special FSB chip which was put into the ear of Lech Kaczynski by his otorrhinolaryngologist probably an FSB spy.
wildrover 98 | 4,452
23 Apr 2010  #102
Here's another photo of the intact cockpit:

Thats the tail section you looney......you can even see part of the tail attatched to it , and the engines close by..... Give it up will ya...!
Jed - | 165
23 Apr 2010  #103
if it is found your government has tried to cover-up an assassination

(1) It would be very hard to cover - it requires handreds of participants involved. It would be hard even 30-40 years ago and looks totally impossible now.

(2) I would need really good proofs for international jurisdiction

From general point of view - who "lost" and "benefit" and how - I didn't find my government in the first lines of "beneficiars" list but rather in the list of potential "losers".

One of the reasons why I'm here - I would like to see how Poles inside Poland estimate these "benefits" - I found myself totally incompetent in intermal affairs of Poland after reading many stupid comments about Russian affairs and intentions here - I would look the same.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
23 Apr 2010  #104
I believe it was the very strict Catholics that created this accident. They did that to kill Maria Kaczynska who had signed a petition against an abortion-law some years ago. Anybody thought of that? Or is it just the BAD Russians per sé that want to kill Lech, while it could've been Maria as well who could be target of extremist Catholics in their depraved way of stopping all forms of progress?

>^..^<

M-G (didn't Tadeusz Rydzyk call her a witch?)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Apr 2010  #105
The next we know, we'll be hearing that excessive turbulence brought the plane down and then grenades were thrown by onstanders ;) ;)

There are a few things that don't add up here but can anybody who questions the official line answer me this, 'could you go around the world and hold conferences/deliver speeches on the refutations?'. Eminent scientists have done it regarding 9/11 and have done remarkably well but there just isn't enough to go on beyond speculation at the moment.
OP Olga 1 | 330
24 Apr 2010  #106
The version with the best audio yet:

youtube.com/watch?v=OX4bO0Op0Tw&feature=related

This was an assassination--no doubt about it.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
24 Apr 2010  #107
This was an assassination--no doubt about it.

Yes, and it was Tadeusz himself who pulled the trigger. He couldn't leave any witnesses, now, could he?

>^..^<

M-G (the contra(ception)-revolution won't be televised)
OP Olga 1 | 330
24 Apr 2010  #108
Polonium-210 = Poland 2010
f stop 25 | 2,513
24 Apr 2010  #109
she might not appreciate it, but I had to quote her. Alice025 from pprune.org:
"The main news of today is that there isn't news, what was promised to be told today in Poland was not told. Recording content not published.

There was a press-conference in Poland but they managed to speak for a long time and say nothing.
Smolensk forum now lays hopes only on tape records leak into internet.
It's Russia, after all; someone should have mercy on ordinary locals of both countries lost in theories (one wilder than another) and in ideas and put the contents out.

MAK has the tapes but won't publish the content of talks in a foreign aircraft - unless Poland gives agreement.
MAK though can publish talks of own aerodrome with the aircraft, our ground, our control tower, in our jurisdiction - to make public or not.

But may be they were asked by Poland to hold on a bit.
The crew was identified last and is only today will be flown to Warsaw from Moscow."

delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
24 Apr 2010  #110
This was an assassination--no doubt about it.

So, instead of believing the facts (the pilot flew the plane into the ground) - you choose to believe that it was an assassination based upon a youtube video of unknown origin?

Wow. I do hope you don't have a vote in the upcoming election.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Apr 2010  #111
I think there is plenty doubt about it, Olga. I even disagree with the fanciful translations of that video. I don't hear dawaj gnata for a start. Let's assume that the plane came down as the official line said, why would they be waiting there with guns? Were bullet wounds found in any of the victims? I doubt it!

I do believe that it should be pursued but with corroboration being the necessary aim.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,296
24 Apr 2010  #112
...tell me, why, if the pilots were flying an PAR approach, backed up with the NDB - why did they go so low when ATC told them to go around...

I've sort of given up on this thread but wanted to point out that there's no "PAR approach backed up with the NDB" - it's either or. Otherwise which direction would you fly if the NDB bearing shows one way and the controller instructions the other way? I believe it was a pure NDB approach at this point...
MediaWatch 10 | 945
24 Apr 2010  #113
I do believe that it should be pursued but with corroboration being the necessary aim.

Were ALL of the victims bodies identified?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Apr 2010  #114
Polish prosecutors investigating the Moscow black boxes presidential TU -154 on Wednesday will be already in the country . A day later, the Attorney General intends to present the results of their work - learned tvn24.pl portal . - Reading and disclose the contents - provides in conversation with us Attorney General.

We should know more in the very near future but I don't trust those in charge of the decoding.

MW, not all, no, but they scoured the site and are checking them thoroughly. Zbigniew Rzepa, is it just coincidence that he is a neep/turnip? ;)
Jed - | 165
24 Apr 2010  #115
Were ALL of the victims bodies identified?

Yes, DNA expertise was completed on April 21.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Apr 2010  #116
I don't think they were able to DNA check all the bodies, Jed. I heard that forensic sampling wasn't possible in all cases. Maybe you are right, though.
Jed - | 165
24 Apr 2010  #117
I don't think they were able to DNA check all the bodies, Jed

I just translate a message from Russian media - Russian Ministry of Health issued this information. May be it was not necessary for all bodies.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Apr 2010  #118
And what do you hear in Russian in that video, Jed? Your views are much appreciated as you are Russian and can hear it more naturally than non-Russians. He doesn't say dawaj gnata, does he? It sounds more like ...America

What attention is that video getting in Russia? Nie ch*j jasebje, LOL
Jed - | 165
24 Apr 2010  #119
He doesn't say dawaj gnata, does he?

No it doesn't. We have a long discussion with Olga on other thread - and at the end even she confirmed that listened something like "Davay gnat' ih otsuda" = "Let's take them away from here". I didn't hear even that on this place of video. "Gnat' " is a verb "take away" = wygnat' (looks like Polish also has it) = prognat' .

Russians didn't find anything special on this video. I think most misinterpretations are based on misspelling Russian.

It is a scene of crash and officials showing way for fire tracks and pushing away occasional public from dangerous place with firing plane.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Apr 2010  #120
It wouldn't be admissible as evidence in court as it's almost impossible to make anything out. Also, we can't see them at all.


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