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Crash of Tu-154 at Smolensk-North--could it have been a bomb in the Polish plane?


famd - | 8
22 Apr 2010  #61
The same users (probably Putin lovers), over and over again, are making fun in brainless ways of the investigation and of the critical thinking of some very respcted members here.

However:

1.To suspend all our critical thinking, to take all Putin declarations on TV as being the Bible, and to sadly suspend our brains... this is puppy-slave attitude.

I pity those who go in such ways. I suspect any human still has a brain and can put pieces together, and nothing leads to the official russian version, which I wanted to believe myself...

2.To believe blindly whatever russian authorities are telling us is Brainwashing. How can we forget or ignore that everyone in the plane knew about imminent death many minutes before the explosion of the plane.

That the bodies of the president and everyone else in the plane were destructed like after very powerful missile explosions, and not like after a bad landing...

3.The presidential plane was not answering to any of the pilot attempts anymore... and they had nothing else to do in the last minutes then to pray to God...

I am sure that all smart people can see clearly through this, how all the thousands of strange coincidences and things that just don't add up

together, lead to the truth that the "official Putin version" has just nothing to do with reality

4.Read this article:

"International terrorists from Russia murdered Polish President with EMP

The source is in the security structures of the NATO. The report has not been officially confirmed yet, but increasing evidence testifies that the Russians really eliminated the leadership of Poland in the most brutal crime of this century.

The opportunity was unique for Russia. Russia never had so many enemies seated in one plane over its territory or near a military base equipped with electronic and electromagnetic weapons systems. It was an opportunity that former KGB agent Vladimir Putin could not miss.

To murder enemies was the ABC of philosophy for security services in the Czarist Russia, which remains intact until now.

birdflu666.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/international-terrorists-from-fsb-russia-murdered-polish-president-with-emp

5. KATYN 2. Man who shot Polish plane crash gunshots footage stabbed to death

Publication time: Today at 13:52 Emirate time

As reported by numerous Polish and Ukrainian Web forums, the man who filmed a video that appeared to depict gunshots being fired in the immediate aftermath of the Polish plane crash has apparently been stabbed to death in what many are claiming was a deliberate assassination to silence the individual from making public whatever it was he saw.

Andrei Menderey has been stabbed near the Ukrainian capital of Kiev last Thursday, April 15, 2010, and transported in critical condition to the hospital in Kiev. On April 16,2010, two unidentified individuals unplugged him from life support system and stabbed him 3 more times.

prisonplanet.com/claim-man-who-shot-polish-plane-crash-gunshots-footage-stabbed-to-death.html
Jed - | 165
22 Apr 2010  #62
Couldn't find any reliable source for this stupid idea. May be this is your 'reliable" source of information?

kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/22/11899.shtml

The only information contained in this source is that they hate Putin and Russia so much that it makes them blind and simetimes even dead.
famd - | 8
22 Apr 2010  #63
As bewildering as it is, Poland still has not received THEIR OWN
POLISH PRESIDENTIAL PLANE'S BLACK BOXES from the russians...:

poland-presses-russi a-to-pass-on-smolensk-crash-black-boxes-.html

Don't try to think that Putin is thinking like a westerner and have
thought about all the implications of his crimes actions, when he Putin took
action on the great opportunity that was offered to him: to get rid of
all polish elite that was supporting Georgia, Ukraine and Czecenia,
all in one shot ... and test his power once again... and all remaining
alive poles in politics in Poland will be feeling cold shivers down their spines
Jed - | 165
22 Apr 2010  #64
Poland still has not received THEIR OWN
POLISH PRESIDENTIAL PLANE'S BLACK BOXES

Did you read only headlines?
"Two Tu-154 flight recorders, which contain flight parameters and voice recordings are being examined at the laboratory in Moscow by Russian investigators and Col. Zbigniew Rzepa from the Polish Supreme Military Prosecutor's Office"

Did they completed mutual investigation already?
famd - | 8
22 Apr 2010  #65
Do you realize if this happens IN MOSKVA, between hundreds/thousands of Russians and just 1 or few polish, the polish investigators will never feel safe and cannot say anything about what REALLY hapenned...

Also: one of the journalists (polish correspondent in Russia) was asked on the day of the tragedy when did he get to know about it and he said "at 9.40, so 4 minutes after the plane explosion".

True time of the presidential plane explosion was 09:36.

Just all the corporatist media says that it happened at 9.56.

After this, this polish journalist was never showed on TV again.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
22 Apr 2010  #66
Wonder why all the conspiracy theorist are "female" and so right wing they cant see past their own noses.

I smell more sh1t lately on PF than at a manure farm...
Jed - | 165
22 Apr 2010  #67
the polish investigators will never feel safe and cannot say anything about what REALLY

Do you think Poles are not brave at all? And he will not stay there forever. Can't believe it.
famd - | 8
22 Apr 2010  #68
What is brave in the behaviour of the vast majority of poles?

That they quickly believed Tusk and Putin crocodile "tears",
and quickly suspended their own brain, and just took
as Bible truth whatever Putin told them from the beginning:
"It was pilot error for sure".

Even if, at any critical technical and just facts analysis,
the pilot error has about 0.00001% real probability

By the way Jed, you are russian, you registered exactly
on Apr 10, 2010 here (the day of the assasination
of all Polish elite), and you posted nonstop
only AGAINST all people searching for the real truth,
and said you Jed just on and on you want to convince
that it was for "sure" just a "pilot error".

Everyone can see how clear is who you are working for...
people are not so naive as you want to think
Mata Hari - | 6
22 Apr 2010  #69
Were the Polish elite abducted and killed in Poland? No evidence of bodies at crash site fuels speculation
April 22, 2010 by Jane Burgermeister

Polish TV journalist Slawomir Wisniewski who was among the first to reach the crash site of the Tupolev plane containing key Polish military and civilian figures, including the Polish President Lech Kaczynski, has said that he believes there was no one on board the crashed plane apart from the crew.

100 words max + URL
Jed - | 165
22 Apr 2010  #70
No evidence of bodies at crash site fuels speculation

And who or what were buried? Jane Burgermeister's brains?
famd - | 8
22 Apr 2010  #71
You will view such situations in a school classroom where children who thirst for answers and ask 'difficult' questions are often looked at as 'pain in the asses' or even ostracized.

Completely true.

But you see, there are few "ghosts" (you know what I mean)
here on this forum, who have fulltime job since April 10, 2010,
just to write vulgar jokes about all the critical thinking
and using our brains asking questions... and to reinforce
that we should blindly become puppies and believe that it
was "a pilot error"
Jed - | 165
22 Apr 2010  #72
there are few "ghosts"

If you talk about myself I don't believe it was a "a pilot error" - at least there could be anythig else that lead him to make an error. A chain of errors and possible not only errors. It doesn't make your suggestions more clever, although.
Sasha 2 | 1,083
22 Apr 2010  #73
Famd, let me remind you of that unlike to Jed it was you who started clogging this thread with semi-paranoid ideas which have been disproved for many times (you only need to look through this and related threads) since 10th April.

I don't impinge upon your right not to believe Russians just because they're Russians (which is certainly unhealthy but it's your choice) or to doubt everything. Yet you're expected to stay within frames of common sense and consider arguments your opponents submitted.

Once the investigation isn't done, the issue is still open, therefore "pilot error" is not an official conclusion. At the same time you and Olga have been trying to represent things the way it was a priori a lie as if you had any evidence. So far you've given none... just unfounded accusations.

just to write vulgar jokes about all the critical thinking
and using our brains asking questions...

Excuse me but considering these paranoid bullcrap you put forward

That the bodies of the president and everyone else in the plane were destructed like
after very powerful missile explosions

Russia never had so many enemies seated in one plane over its territory or near a military base equipped with electronic and electromagnetic weapons systems.

Man who shot Polish plane crash gunshots footage stabbed to death

you deserve either being laughed at or ignored...
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
22 Apr 2010  #74
Strange, all this info from people who neither stay in Poland (or near) or have much to do with Poland. hhmmmmm CT's in my book.

Olga who is from Canada and doesn't speak Polish but can read all the excited theories on Polish sites and famd who only join the forum to talk about his theories.

Starved of attention anyone?

Oh and I just laughed so hard at this new theory!!!

Were the Polish elite abducted and killed in Poland? No evidence of bodies at crash site fuels speculation

guzzler 1 | 88
22 Apr 2010  #75
Of course the KGB would never stoop to a dirty trick like that, nor would the CIA, MI6, Mossad, or any other dirty tricks brigade.

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/24/AR2006112400410.html
OP Olga 1 | 330
23 Apr 2010  #76
The remains of 5 of the 7 crewmembers had to be identified with DNA. Notice, however, that the cockpit is largely intact (as seen in the shooting video)...

With DNA? Why, because they survived and were shot to death and evidence of such had to be "mangled"?

Also, Russian authorities were seen installing lightbulbs in the runway approach lights after the crash...Why? To erase any evidence of a sabotage?
youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9ZarY9Z-Q
Pibwl - | 50
23 Apr 2010  #77
If you talk about myself I don't believe it was a "a pilot error" - at least there could be anythig else that lead him to make an error.

Right. Because as we know, pilot's errors NEVER happen. It's just impossible. Also, planes don't fall down. In case of Casa crash several years ago, it was also Russians, who put the bomb - and Polish commission was so stupid, that didn't notice evidences. Oh, I forgot - it was 2008, so probably Tusk's government concealed evidence. Yes, and the Russians also caused a crash of two aerobatics aircraft in Radom several years ago, hoping, they would fall on audience. Probably they implanted a chip to a pilot, while he was asleep, and in a critical moment, a remotely controlled electrical shock led to a crash.

I'm sorry, but I can't stand rubbish. Pilot's error is easiest to explain theory in such case - unless something contradicts it. Accidents sometimes just happen.
convex 20 | 3,979
23 Apr 2010  #78
I think you misunderstood. Establishing pilot error is easy, establishing why the pilot made the error is what we want to know. What led to that decision being made? Comms issues, training, pressure....
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
23 Apr 2010  #79
Oh and I just laughed so hard at this new theory!!!

This is the best one yet, I think :D The others are good, but this one is just so unbelievable that I really applaud whoever thought it up - best short fiction story 2010 winner?

May be this is your 'reliable" source of information?

Even the Radio Maryja family doesn't appear to have picked up on this - and given that they love a good conspiracy theory....

The crash of the Polish President's plane which caused the death of all 96 passengers is absolutely inexplicable because of the sophisticated electronic equipment on board and experienced pilots.

Really? Experienced pilots never crash? So, how do you explain the FedEx crash at Narita, then? Or indeed, how about the Spanair crash in Madrid? Or even AA587?

All copied and pasted from this site - kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/14/11842.shtml

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkaz_Center

hmm :)
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
23 Apr 2010  #80
hmm :)

Yup, it aint difficult to put 2 and 2 together guessing who our "new" members are... :P
Harry
23 Apr 2010  #81
If you talk about myself I don't believe it was a "a pilot error" - at least there could be anythig else that lead him to make an error.

Yes, it is called 'pressure from a duck who thought he knew how to fly than a professional pilot did'.
czar 1 | 143
23 Apr 2010  #82
hah all the peeps who agree on error or accident cant agree on how or why.

give us the russian account, you cant, im waiting...

can anyone explain to me the 2001 tel-aviv to siberia black sea crash? thanks.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
23 Apr 2010  #83
hah all the peeps who agree on error or accident cant agree on how or why.

That's what the investigation is going to tell us. The facts aren't disputed - the plane was too low. Why? Pilot error. What made him go too low? Don't know - we have to wait and see.

Unless of course, you wish to explain why the plane managed to lose a wing a few hundred metres before crashing - planes don't tend to lose just one wing when "blown up in mid air".

give us the russian account, you cant, im waiting...

I'm happier waiting for the Polish account, which as the military prosecutor says, is being completed with the full cooperation of the Russian authorities. Unless of course, you're paranoid enough to believe that the Polish military would actually participate in a cover-up alongside the Russians.

Jaroslaw must be desparing right now - he's kept his mouth firmly shut and hasn't endorsed any conspiracy theories, yet his voters are doing their damnest to ruin his chances. Perhaps conspiracy theorists would be wise to keep quiet until after the election?
czar 1 | 143
23 Apr 2010  #84
fair enough
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
23 Apr 2010  #85
Just to show people how easily it is to destroy a plane - have a look at this.

youtube.com/watch?v=YUGtCGvIRUs&feature=channel

Now, bearing in mind that we know that the plane lost a wing a few hundred metres before, and we also know that the plane likely landed on its back - what chances of survival did anyone actually have?
OP Olga 1 | 330
23 Apr 2010  #86
establishing why the pilot made the error is what we want to know. What led to that decision being made?

"during a PAR approach, the controller is in fact 'in control' of the aircraft. The pilot merely carries out controller instructions, as he has no means of verifying his position other than the controller's words. On such an approach the controller's words are an order, not a suggestion..."

--> Would a PAR approach not largely rely on functional and properly positioned runway approach lights, also?

Recall that the runway approach lights were set off the runway, on fenceposts (decoy)?
And here, following the crash, the Russians were seen installing lightbulbs on the actual runway approach lights:
youtube.com/watch?v=4Q9ZarY9Z-Q

Reports indicate that 5 of the 7 crewmembers (4 of who were in the cockpit and 3 stewardesses) had to be identified with DNA.
hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_POLAND_PLANE_CRASH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Notice on the shooting video, however, that the cockpit is largely intact. And, although not entirely conclusive, in the video it appears as though someone lying next to the cockpit may have been shot.

youtube.com/watch?v=PxIFh3NkEvM&feature=related
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
23 Apr 2010  #87
have a look at this.

Did you notice then gunfire in that vid :P

Olga
Straight away the first vid. Its pictures of Russian installing lights. Big deal, anyone could take pics of that :D
OP Olga 1 | 330
23 Apr 2010  #88
Fog and pilot error are a pack of lies built on a house of cards. This does not pass the smell test, for those of you without noses.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
23 Apr 2010  #89
So says the right wing nutjob in Canada :D
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
23 Apr 2010  #90
“during a PAR approach, the controller is in fact 'in control' of the aircraft. The pilot merely carries out controller instructions, as he has no means of verifying his position other than the controller's words. On such an approach the controller’s words are an order, not a suggestion...”

If this was true, then the Polish pilot directly disobeyed orders to go around. But as has been quoted - the pilot continued the approach after being told to go around or divert. There's also the fact that if it was a PAR approach, then they deliberately went against orders in regards to height.

So, what kind of theory do you have for these supposedly world-class pilots ignoring commands from ATC?

And here, following the crash, the Russians were seen installing lightbulbs on the actual runway approach lights:

Only hearsay at this point - the Poles have asked the Russians to clarify what was going on. Given that the only 'evidence' for this happening is a picture being uploaded online, it's tenacious at best.

Reports indicate that 5 of the 7 crewmembers (4 of who were in the cockpit and 3 stewardesses) had to be identified with DNA.

Well, yes, when a plane hits a tree, loses a wing, turns upside round and crashes at a decent speed, you'd expect people to be slightly hurt. Didn't you look at the post-crash videos?

Notice on the shooting video, however, that the cockpit is largely intact.

Intact? It's destroyed.

But go on - tell me, why, if the pilots were flying an PAR approach, backed up with the NDB - why did they go so low when ATC told them to go around? From what I understand of the technical capabilities of the plane, they could still have survived if they had pulled up when recommended to do so.

Fog and pilot error are a pack of lies built on a house of cards.

What, the fog on the videos isn't real? But the gunshots and the bodies are? Make up your mind - either the video is real, or it's not.

As for pilot error being a lie - again, given that you seem to believe that the pilots were on a PAR approach, why didn't they pull up when told to do so?

One of the big questions here is just what approach they were flying - and why. Virtually anyone with any knowledge of aviation knows that they were way below the minimum visibility needed for a landing at Smolensk - so why?


Home / News / Crash of Tu-154 at Smolensk-North--could it have been a bomb in the Polish plane?
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