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Poles against gay marriages. Really?


jon357 63 | 14,148
1 Feb 2019 #61
Why do you have to pay gay peoples social benefits ?

Quite. Why does he have to pay anyone's social benefits, and why would anyone else have to pay his?

Like filing as a married couple instead of individually

In a lot of places it's much better to file individually....
cms neuf - | 994
1 Feb 2019 #62
Indeed - as a pension aged Polish citizen Rich should have received a handy booklet telling him that married benefits for people who outlive their spouse are basically nic, and work benefits for people who outlive their spouse are also basically nic.

Anyhow he is probably on the tram home by now with only another 12 stops berfore he gets to Heroes of the Baltic Fleet housing estate.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
1 Feb 2019 #63
why we, the taxpayers, should spend one damn dime on their benefits

I don`t need to explain because another poster already did:

That gay is subsidising benefits for child heathcare, school, 500 plus, etc

And still another anti-gay marriage poster claims this

They are treated equally.

If so, they are entitled to receive gay marriage benefits too, like in heterosexual marriages

Tu jest POLSKA nie Bruksela,

But this claim doesn`t seem true in view of poll results presented in the first post - namely, Poles are adopting Brussels` point of view. What are you going to do about it? How can you stop them?
Ziemowit 12 | 3,582
1 Feb 2019 #64
He may only sing: "Tu jest ILLINOIS, a nie Polska" and that would nicely reflect his position on many issues.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,087
1 Feb 2019 #65
More and more of my acquaintances simply don`t care about gay marriages

I think in the general scheme of things, Poles are more concerned with what affects them in daily life, and gay marriage isn't something that they particularly dwell on. This is my experience anyway, from mixing with, working with, and living with Poles. The usual suspects here want to make a big issue out of it, which tells me more about them than it does about Poles. Sure, there are people everywhere who still hold prejudices, but by and large, I feel this is the older rather than the younger generations.

we might be tempted to presume that the changes in Polish opinions on gay marriage are partly caused by the influence of British culture.

If people live in a country long enough, some things are bound to rub off, and the UK as a society, is far more open and accepting of gay people than is Poland. I think that this may have some bearing on it, but I think that attitudes in Poland are changing anyway. The country reminds me very much of how Britain was in the 1950s, including the attitude toward gay people, but now I think that Poland is going through a metamorphosis, just as the UK did.

once it went past that into the hateful rhetoric of how some people feel about two individuals choice to love one another, the thread lost its meaning.

On PF it was never going to end any other way. This thread is a golden opportunity for the small minority of posters here who love to do nothing more than spread hate. Only seems to be directed at gay men though, lesbians seem to be ok ;)

Tu jest POLSKA nie Bruksela, tu sie pedalowania NIE POPIERA!!!

Stay stuck in the past if you want, but your views are becoming more and more outdated.
My only surprise is that you didn't follow it up with Polska dla Polaków!
mafketis 21 | 7,392
1 Feb 2019 #66
I've noticed in recent years that some male students who are gay are pretty matter of factly out (I'm sure there are still some closet cases but openly gay students who don't make a big deal out of it are certainly a welcome innovation).
cms neuf - | 994
1 Feb 2019 #67
That would be a good thing Maf - I am sure that it is much better for those guys to be comfortable that they will not get abuse and stigma, they can get on with their lives just like every other Pole. I would say the same is evident in professional life - I know in a corporate or professional setting there is no issue with being out any more.
Intermarium 11 | 64
1 Feb 2019 #68
Have there been instances of gay pedophile Catholic priests caught abusing little boys in Poland, or is this only happening in the degenerate western countries?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,815
1 Feb 2019 #69
You've gotta be kidding, right?

Google Search polish+priests+boys

I wonder how many children world wide could had been saved when the catholic priests could have sex with grown ups like any other red blooded male.....
Ziemowit 12 | 3,582
1 Feb 2019 #70
Catholic priests caught abusing little boys in Poland, or is this only happening in the degenerate western countries?

You must live far away from Poland if you don't know. And you don't follow any Polish media, right? Now there have already been lots of cases of such abuse by Catholic priests or monks reported in Poland and it seems that Poland is as 'degenerate' in this respect as other western countries.

The highest compensation announced by a court ruling and paid so far to the victim of such abuse has been one million zloty .
Intermarium 11 | 64
1 Feb 2019 #71
Correct. I don't and have never lived in Poland.

However, I would assume that the views expressed on this thread concerning gay marriage and other social issues, and on this forum in general, do not accurately reflect the views of the Poles overall.

The people posting on here seem to be mostly from western countries, and the Poles posting here are ones who speak good English.

As a result, the views expressed are invariably made from a much more liberal/leftist/progressive standpoint than from the broad spectrum of Polish society.
Atch 17 | 2,901
1 Feb 2019 #72
Have there been instances of gay pedophile Catholic priests caught abusing little boys in Poland

You're being very naive if you think it doesn't happen. But I think the scale of abuse is probably far less here than in Ireland, another Catholic country, because in Ireland, the clergy had far greater unsupervised access to the nation's children through the education system which was completely under the patronage of the Catholic church and through institutional, residential care which was also under church management.

I really don't see any connection between a 'degenerate' society and child abuse. There was nothing degenerate about Ireland, which was a far more conservative place than Poland, at the time that child abuse was rife.

I also think that you can't assume it doesn't happen because you don't hear about it. Again, compare it to Ireland. We never heard about it at the time it was happening. It came to light many years later. You probably will hear about cases of abuse by Polish priests at some point in the future, but as I say, not on the same overwhelming scale.
0000000
1 Feb 2019 #73
If Poland embraces homosexuality at either the legislative or social level, the nation will fall to its knees and an ever-increasing presence of division will pervade through the land - causing your nation to be destroyed. The same goes with feminism and its love for abortion, or any other similar ideology that strongly contradicts your religion. As you slowly let these divisive ideologies find their way into systems of political activism, more and more people will become homosexuals, feminists, or any other type of 'victim'. More and more people who ascribe to these lifestyles will be attracted to Poland and move there.

As this happens, people who lead these lifestyles will scream and yell at the government even after it bends to the will of these people and rewards them through legislation and regulations. Even after these groups are rewarded to the full capability that a government is capable of rewarding them using its powers, you will hear more and more of these words: "We still have a long way to go for our cause." and "It's not just about equality in terms of the law, we just want to be treated like everybody else when it comes to culture, society, and how people think of is". In other words, the people of Poland must not hold any reservations against them even if it's privately. These phrases will be used to justify a continuance of confrontational public protests and bold attempts at shaming prominent opposition figures by calling them "misogynysts" and "homophobes". These labels will have an increasingly damaging effect as time moves on. The vulnerable minds of your society will bend to these social pressures, and out of fear of being shamed, will refrain from publicly opposing these 'victim groups'.

As the vocal opposition is suppressed, once again, more and more people will adopt these lifestyles. As more and more people adopt these lifestyles, they will demand and eventually acquire official seats of power in the government as they are now a sizeable portion of your population, and naturally, any government of a democratic country such as Poland will represent the makeup of it's citizens right? Now they have a little bit of political power. Through subtle or even blatant legislation and regulations, they will slowly weaken their only remaining and final opponent if they have not already rendered its influence in your nation impotent: religion. Once that has been done: congratulations, the process is complete. These subversive groups no longer have an opponent capable of effectively blocking their never-ending and perpetual agendas.

You have equality now. Equality. Equality. Equality. You did well. You have ushered in the Trojan Horse. Equality won. But wait, in achieving euqality, your society has now lost its religion. Religion; the glue that holds your beautiful country, Poland, together and once reigned as the reference to which your society could refer to when making policies, legislation, or forming opinions cultural topics regarding 'women's rights' and 'homosexual rights'. The Catholic Church; openly promoting and establishing a precedent for the importance of the nurturing and loving concept of the traditonal family between a strong man and woman who raise their kids to be like their parents.

Oh, and don't forget: this entire time, feminism has slowly chipped away at the quality of relatioships between men and women. Social norms such as flirting, dating, and basic interactions are now having to be adjusted because nascent feminism has now gone militant - targeting people who show increasingly subjective 'unwanted behaviors' while also confronting and showing hostility towards men who express their masculinity. This is because masculinity is the main force that oppresses them and causes 'unequal power balances' in your society. In time, the men conform and adjust their behaviors because they just don't feel like dealing with the troubles that go along with acting certain ways. And by the way, it's not just the ladies who are feminists at this point. It's a sizeable portion of your male population now. The men among you such as those that have shown themseves in this very thread coming to the defense of these lifestyles and groups. The same men who do not understand the rise and fall of nations, nor what caused them, nor the ramifications of certain proposed policies other than the fact that they should reasonably support them because it is not obvious to them how these policies will affect the liberties of those around them who do not belong to the various 'victim groups' in question. Even the men who do not support these 'victim groups' and lifestyles, will slowly come along to adopting a neutral point of view on them, summed up as a 'why not just let them do it?' attitude.

Now, due to the erosion of your religious and moral guiding principals that your people once had and once agreed could be referred to for important decisions in life (and kept them unified in how they would move forward as a nation), your people slowly but surely veer away from the ethical standards that once kept families and trust between Polish men and women in-tact. Oh wait, what's that? Your birth rates are decreasing even more? The strong independent women now no longer wants to have a family and is instead focussing on her career even moreso than before. It doesn't really matter how many people she sleeps around with either, because at this point she has the right to choose and can now have an abortion when needed. Your average woman is now choosing to have kids at a later age, and right now she just wants to have sex with a lot of guys.

And when she does, you better not think any less of her for it. You sexist pig. She's pure. And the Catholic Church can't rebuke a promiscuous lifestyle for men and women anymore because you've lost youre social fabric - your religion, remember? Regardless, who cares about what Catholicism says about it? You shouldn't. You're a secular nation now. Younger generations become more and more liberal both in policy and morals in the absence of religion. Now the EU no longer has to twist your arm to get you to follow their orders in lock-step. These young people have grown up and are now the new politicians, and now actively advocate and promote the same policies that the leftist EU promotes. EU policies are now de-facto Polish policy. You have now fallen in line. The leftist concept of open borders is now enacted. Poland is flooded with refugees and immigrants from poorer nations. These are people who are not only not Polish ethnically, but also represent different cultures with different values and habits.

These people eventually get representation as well. Don't forget to selflessly give them access to your social wellfare and benifits systems, burdening it to an unsustainable level. And we all know that these are not refugees. They are here to stay. If you try to make them leave, you are being a racist. Sit down you xenophobic nationalist. BBC wrote a snarky article about you by the way, that shows how wrong you are. The native Polish population in your nation is now making up a smaller and smaller percentage of your population every year. The economy is starting to struggle as well. Maybe taking in immigrants or refugees who aren't skilled and can't contribute to the economy wasn't such a great idea. At this point, technically speaking, you are no longer a Polish nation. Congrats, you have equality. Equality. Equality. Equality is good. You are an equal society. Modifying and slowly chipping away at your good and decent religious values in favor of letting the victims impose their definition(s) of 'equality' through policy and legislation was totally worth it. At least you're not a racist, homophobic, and sexist right-winger. But you used to be, so we'll remember to still remind you about it every time you speak up about things. In fact, because we have power now, we might even ban certain speech that can be considered offenseive towards us.

Now your nation has fallen. You have no pride. You have no more Polish culture. Your ancestors died so that a man from 1000s of miles away can enjoy the benefits of your free healthcare system while not being able to put as much into the system as he takes out. Good job. You've defiled your ancestors. You have been totally and completely subverted. You fools.

I came here to say that the Polish people can escape this future. Poland can retain the bright future that it has for its people and prosper through its developing economy and beautiful cities while rising as a growing power in Europe.

The solution is simple: Poland must never abandon its religious roots, ideas, or principles. It must maintain the moral fabric - the guiding moral principles that have been in-tact throughout its history (especially when enacting legislation) and never stray from it even an inch in favor of any of the 'equality' movements. Resist the pressure to do so. It will be a constant struggle to resist. Raise strong families and children to carry on and do the same as you when they grow up. The day that you become a secular nation - and lose your faith, is the day that you lose your nation altogether. Remain an unashamedly Christian nation at all costs.

I am not from Poland. I am not Polish. I am a friend. I write this messge to you because I love Poland and its people. I respect Poland and its culture. I believe that God has a special plan & purpose for Poland on this earth. I believe that Poland is a nation worth fighting for. This is your warning. This is your chance. This is my heartfelt message to the people of Poland. If you do not heed this, I will not hang my head in sorrow. If you dismiss this as belligerent nonsense, I will not be offended. If you do not heed this message, I will despise and hold sincere and burning contempt for each and every one of you with every fiber of my being. For ruining something good, For failing to protect your wonderful women and children, For destroying your families, For willfully falling from God's grace, For being naive, For abandoning your purpose, For not heeding this message.

Because Poland is among the strongest of the few remaining nations capable of putting up a defense and resisting against the forces of evil that have swept through many parts of this world already, and has been called to do so, Poland will be judged even greater if it abandons God.

Go and fight for the preservation of your nation. Retain your morals. Choose God. At all costs. You are among the world's last survivors in a stand against a great enemy.

-My love letter to Poland.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,582
1 Feb 2019 #74
You probably will hear about cases of abuse by Polish priests at some point in the future

Not in "at some point the future". We hear about them all the time now, didn't you read my post?

Now there have already been lots of cases of such abuse by Catholic priests or monks reported in Poland

Atch 17 | 2,901
1 Feb 2019 #75
I mean Ziem that you may not hear about all of them. In fact I'm sure you don't, especially those that occurred forty or fifty years ago where the victims haven't spoken up and may never do so. As a matter of interest when did the reporting of such cases begin in the Polish media? And how recent were the offences?

Please stick to the topic "Poles against gay marriages"
Ziemowit 12 | 3,582
1 Feb 2019 #76
you may not hear about all of them.

I doubt if you ever hear about all of them in any country, Ireland included.

when did the reporting of such cases begin in the Polish media?

As in any other cases (like, for example, hunts for witches in Europe), the trend appears in the West first and then slowly moves east. So when it is all over in the so-called "rotten" West, reports of such abuse will be still emerging in Poland
Lyzko 23 | 6,641
1 Feb 2019 #77
@Intermarium.

Many Poles here undoubtedly have a little help from GoogleTranslate, lest we credit many (perhaps not all, like Ziemowit) with praise not entirely deserved:-)

By the way, one wonders how a changing of the guard in the good ol' FRG come 2020 will change that country's views on the entire gay issue. I understand from the German press that a possible run by Annagret Kram Karrenbauer for chancellor would simply be "Merkel Lite" aka SPD on steroids.

Care to comment?
:-)
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,445
1 Feb 2019 #78
the entire gay issue.

The entire "gay" issue is how a brain defect got promoted to the level of civil rights. And how tolerance morphed into admiration and, on Bravo, superiority.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,413
1 Feb 2019 #79
The entire "gay" issue is how a brain defect

Yeah but there is no cure yet like alzheimer's, so we have to make room and accommodate those who are affected, but I do wonder if a cure was found how many gays would wish to be treated , I don't think we have the right to force treatment, and gays should be allowed a choice.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,815
1 Feb 2019 #80
but I do wonder if a cure was found how many gays would wish to be treated....

I've read even more people are bi...falling for boys AND girls...I wonder how a cure for that should look like. Wouldn't that be a kind of "downgrading"?
dolnoslask 5 | 2,413
1 Feb 2019 #81
even more people are bi...falling for boys AND girls..

I do wonder about all these contraceptive pills that are swallowed and then urinated, apparently the treatment plants cannot remove all these hormones, more and more kids are identifying with a sexual dysfunction.

Thing is all this is against the norms of Darwinian theory and if we stop reproducing that will be the end, but maybe that would be good for the planet, at least the greens would be happy (But dead).
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,815
1 Feb 2019 #82
Thing is all this is against the norms of Darwinian theory and if we stop reproducing that will be the end,

Na ja...I wouldn't put the reproducing on the shoulders of the gays....A survey of the US found that only 1.3% of women and 1.9% of men said they were gay.

edition.cnn.com/2016/01/07/health/bisexuality-on-the-rise/index.html

It should be similiar in Europe and elswhere. It's a bit mean to blame the demographic developments on these few people.

more and more kids are identifying with a sexual dysfunction.

What makes me wonder is more the rise of the transgender. I've read that it has become kind of a fashion for puberting teens to identify as transgender and demand a sex change...THAT is new! And no doubt influenced by the media and the medical possibilities.

I accept that an insecure youth growing up suffers his/hers changing hormones, that he/her might feel uncomfortable in his/her growing body, puberty sucks for most. But I guess most of them are not real transgender and will regret any medical change later on deeply...
Spike31 2 | 884
1 Feb 2019 #83
the views expressed are invariably made from a much more liberal/leftist/progressive standpoint than from the broad spectrum of Polish society.

Liberal/leftist/progressive doctrine appeals to those who are a little bit educated and by expressing liberal views they are hoping to impress the others around them by how educated and open-minded they are.

Each progressive statement is a declaration to those around them: look "I'm modern, I'm smart, I'm holding a liberal views unlike you, you conservative obscurant who clings to some old fashioned model of a family, to your religion and your silly traditions".

Poor souls confuse progressivism and neo-marxist slogans with high education and intelligence. So called educated fools.

If you don't believe me, have a small chat with a liberal on some hot button political issues and insist on using an old-fashioned logic as a basis of your discussion. You will soon discover how shallow is his/her beliefs are.

You won't convince him with your logic since cognitive dissonance he would experience would be too painful to deal with it straight away but you may plant a seed of doubt in his/her mind so it won't go in vain.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,413
1 Feb 2019 #84
it has become kind of a fashion for puberting teens to identify as transgender and demand a sex change...THAT is new!

Yeah thats why I think future populations may dwindle.

Put simply people won't know if they should be bodgered or do the bodgering , hence no kids would be made in the confusion.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,815
1 Feb 2019 #85
Smart heads will rather find out how to grow designer babies in tubes than to allow mankind to die out...all hail technology! :)
dolnoslask 5 | 2,413
1 Feb 2019 #86
Smart heads will rather find out how to grow designer babies

Oh that's a point, not sure if it is a good and healthy solution tho.

Er rm it's quiet scary actually.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,445
1 Feb 2019 #87
I don't think we have the right to force treatment, and gays should be allowed a choice.

I agree with your entire post. There is, however, a huge difference between not forcing treatment and making homosexuality "normal" or admirable.
BTW, your post would get you fired next day if you were in the "media" or worked for a politician.

Yeah thats why I think future populations may dwindle.

The current ones already are dwindling. Between abortions, women working and delaying having kids, and drug addiction as in Russia, it's a crisis of mega proportions. Germany's birth rate of 1.5 being an example. As a result, to feed the retirement Ponzi scams from the bottom, we "need" immigrants.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,815
1 Feb 2019 #88
Er rm it's quiet scary actually.

But...why?
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,445
1 Feb 2019 #89
You won't convince him with your logic since cognitive dissonance he would experience would be too painful

Again, perfect post. All of it.
My disappointment with the libs is that they fold so quickly. It's like you finally get that steak and someone just yanks it away before you can stick your knife for the kill.

That moment comes so easily if you manage to ask any question with "how much" or "how many" in it.
Depending on the subject, this is when you find out what a racist, xenophobe or homophobe you (editorial) are.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,413
1 Feb 2019 #90
But...why?

Well think about it and to stay on topic let's talk about Gays and test tube babies.

Say for instance someone decided that Gay genes were not allowed.

I think that sort of thing would damage the balance of diversity.

Imagine a world where there would be no gay male trolley dollies on air flights, you would have some boring alpha male barking orders at you, with no chance of extra cream on your fudge finger.

The tv and film industry would suffer, male dancers , wardrobe. And things like gimp the scene in pulp fiction would no longer make any sense to the new bio engineered generation.

Women would suddenly find their choice of wardrobe design and hairdressers very limited.

But the worst thing is that people like Freddy Mercury and David Bowie would never be born. Oh and not forgetting Alan Turing

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