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Are Poles bigots and xenophobes?


ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
12 Nov 2010 #1
The more one reads about Poland, the more evidence there seems to be that the whole country just prides itself on intolerance. Gays cannot donate blood. Radio Maryja screams anti-Semitic and nationalistic messages. The ultra-conservative Liga Polskich Rodzin and Stronnictwo Narodowe and their ilk still gather support. The Romas are treated with discrimination and outright aggression. Is this one big sad hell hole or does it just pretend to be one?
Bzibzioh
12 Nov 2010 #2
The more one reads

Stop reading. Pick up crocheting.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
12 Nov 2010 #3
Uh...you're from Texas. Can't help but wonder if the pot is calling the kettle black here.

Gays cannot donate blood.

They can't in many countries. They even can't in the UK, arguably one of the most liberal countries in the world. Can they give blood in Texas?

Radio Maryja screams anti-Semitic and nationalistic messages.

It's actually gone rather quiet lately. Gazeta Wyborcza, always a keen follower of what's being said by Radio Maryja hasn't said anything in weeks.

The ultra-conservative Liga Polskich Rodzin and Stronnictwo Narodowe and their ilk still gather support.

From who? They're not in the Sejm, no-one takes them seriously and they're not even on the political radar. I'm sure the Ku Klux Klan still gets support in Texas, but from who? A tiny minority? Just like LPR.

The Romas are treated with discrimination and outright aggression.

Happens everywhere. Given their behaviour in many respects, who is surprised?

Is this one big sad hell hole or does it just pretend to be one?

You live in Texas, so...not sure how you can comment about "tolerance".
Ireland4ever - | 44
12 Nov 2010 #4
I'm from Ireland. Generally, Polish people are OK... Irish poeple don't know much about Poland or her people.

However, I wish there was less polish in Ireland. We are a very small nation and poland is very big. Would you guys not be better trying to help your own country to improve rather than abandon her just because it is weak. No offence... but Ireland is n't going to solve poland's problems

They seem better than the lithuanians who break laws and are generally disliked.
Polonia1 3 | 53
12 Nov 2010 #5
The more one reads about Poland, the more evidence there seems to be that the whole country just prides itself on intolerance.

That is absolutely not the case. We were the most tolerant country in Europe throughout history. We had the first democratic constitution in Europe, freedom of religion (centuries ahead of our time) and were also the most multicultural country in Europe. We take pride in hero's like Kosciusko of whom Benjamin Franklin wrote " The truest son of liberty I have ever known". It is Polish nature to be tolerant. Unfortunately like in every country you get a few uneducated peasants who want to vent their frustrations on other ppl because of their differences. It might seem prevalent atm in Poland because communism and WW2 wiped out a huge proportion of our elite, but this trend will not continue
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
12 Nov 2010 #6
We were the most tolerant country in Europe throughout history.

The II RP was one of the most intolerant countries in Europe. The III RP is quite a bit better, but it's still far less tolerant than most European countries.

I wouldn't say Poland is proud of her intolerance, but nor is she ashamed of it.
Polonia1 3 | 53
12 Nov 2010 #7
The II RP was one of the most intolerant countries in Europe

yeah reading what other ppl say about u on this forum, I would take that with a table spoon of salt.

And from my own knowledge I would jst say Bullshit
OP ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
12 Nov 2010 #8
Uh...you're from Texas

what exactly do you know about Texas that makes you so condescending? i think my point is proven, that Poles think they're better than everyone else, for no good reason.

They can't in many countries

again, point proven. It wouldn't even cross your mind that it's wrong, you're just trying to come up with justification for an irrational example of bigotry.

Happens everywhere.

ditto

Dude, you're a living proof of what I wrote.

btw, I hope you give a discount on your English lessons.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
12 Nov 2010 #9
And from my own knowledge I would jst say Bullshit

Really?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_pogrom_(1918)

What was this, then?

Perhaps you might want to consider the amount of anti-semtism flying around in the II RP. Never heard of Endecja's role? Or heard about the quotas in universities for Jewish students? How come there were less than 10% Jews in universities in the mid 1930's, despite making up a bigger minority than 10%?

Poland's role in WW2 towards Jews can be argued about all day, but it cannot be denied that Poland was less than friendly towards them between the wars.

And that's not even talking about the other minorities. Perhaps you might want to discuss the destruction of the Lemko culture? Or we could talk about the oppression of the Ukrainian minority. Up to you - the II RP is full of examples of intolerance and sheer stupidity.

Don't forget, the II RP seized Czechoslovak land when presented with half a chance. Not exactly the actions of a sane country, really.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
12 Nov 2010 #10
Dude, you're a living proof of what I wrote.

Yeah and everyone posting here are Poles, just like you! :)
OP ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
12 Nov 2010 #11
It might seem prevalent atm in Poland because communism and WW2 wiped out a huge proportion of our elite

I appreciate the explanation, and I'm sure there is a lot of truth in it. But it just makes me wonder if it's even possible to be a non-Catholic in Poland, with religion being taught at school and even on days off (rekolekcje) as a mandatory activity. If one of the basic freedoms which many other countries take for granted, is restricted by generations that have not experienced WWII or communism, I just don't see much hope. I think it would be very difficult for a non-Catholic to live in Poland, not to mention someone whose diversity is visible at first sight, like a non-Caucasian race, or being openly gay. Obviously it doesn't help that the Catholic church is frantically anti-gay.

Yeah and everyone posting here are Poles, just like you! :)

so you think I am or I'm not Polish?
Polonia1 3 | 53
12 Nov 2010 #12
The II RP was one of the most intolerant countries in Europe.

also Pilsudski was a philosemite, and although yes it would be fair to say that their were some cases of intolerance. It was all a direct result of occupation, which influenced some of the population. had they lived in a free Poland all their lives it would not be the case.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
12 Nov 2010 #13
so you think I am or I'm not Polish?

Well you assumed the first commentator was the living proof of a Pole so I assume (Just like you) that you must also be Polish! :)

which influenced some of the population.

That is indeed correct
Polonia1 3 | 53
12 Nov 2010 #14
What was this, then?

The fact of the matter is that Poland was the most tolarent country in Europe!......when England and Germany threw out all their jews, who gave them a home.....When protestants and catholics were slaughtering each other in England, Poland had something called freedom of religion. And I could go on.......all you show me is some instances in the 2RP a fragile country were most of the population didn't fully understand the values and virtues which make you Polish as they were influenced by foreign powers
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
12 Nov 2010 #15
But it just makes me wonder if it's even possible to be a non-Catholic in Poland, with religion being taught at school and even on days off (rekolekcje) as a mandatory activity.

Quite easily. There are plenty of kids not going to religion classes - and because of a lack of money, those kids simply don't have to go to school at that time. No problem, as it were. As for Rekolekcje - who the hell sends their kids to such a thing if they don't want to go?

I think it would be very difficult for a non-Catholic to live in Poland.

Plenty of non-Caucasians live here just fine. I'm not a Catholic and live here fine (can't recall when not being Catholic was ever any issue - no-one is interested!). There's plenty of openly gay people walking around - heck, no-one cares.

The worst thing in Poland is whispering.
OP ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
12 Nov 2010 #16
that you must also be Polish! :)

My husband is Polish. I was watching Colbert Report and the piece on the giant statue of Jesus, which was hilarious, so we started talking. We know a lot of Polish people in the area and they're far from intolerant-and-proud-of-it, which seems to be the case with some folks posting here. So I started the thread and wanted to hear on what you think.
asik 2 | 220
12 Nov 2010 #17
The Romas are treated with discrimination and outright aggression.

Just to educate you on some facts!

..did you ever had any contact with Roma people??? I had!

They are lazy and well organised group of criminals. They force they own and small children into prostitution and live from it. Adult don't work because they live from begging and stealing, they teach their own children from as early as possible how to beg and how to rob ordinary and sometimes even poor people.

These scambags should be put in one controlled area just to protect all of us, and not only people in Poland. They are already "working by begging and stealing&robbing" in the UK, in France. We'll soon hear where else they are strong and hard "working". Maybe they are already on their way to Texas? It's possible.

Rich Romas don't care and do nothing to change their own peoples criminal behaviour, that's why we all should act and do something to stop these beasts. I wish there was one law in the whole Europe to address this problem.

I think it would be very difficult for a non-Catholic to live in Poland,

Get your facts in order before you write about things, gypsy.

Obviously it doesn't help that the Catholic church is frantically anti-gay.

It is the most disgusting thing it could ever happen to human - to be gay.
There is nothing more to say.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
12 Nov 2010 #18
Quite easily.

What an shocker! I bet he won't belive you! ;)

heck, no-one cares.

As long as they don't walk naked, why should they?

Obviously it doesn't help that the Catholic church is frantically anti-gay.

Somehow in the middle ages the Catholic Church had crusades and burned witches! Guess what happaned in Poland! (Well there was some few burning of witches but that happaned when it was an German king at power which was from Saxony later on 1700+)
Polonia1 3 | 53
12 Nov 2010 #19
But it just makes me wonder if it's even possible to be a non-Catholic in Poland, with religion being taught at school and even on days off (rekolekcje) as a mandatory activity.

You have to understand what catholicism means to Poles, it is much more then jst a religion. It is the roots of our identity. It would be fair to say that if it wasn't for the church there would be no Poland atm. Catholicism has played monumental roles in our history. We also perceive ourselves as the Christ of nations due to our history. That is why most Poles are so devout. And most of us are very mindful of our liberal past, and being a non-catholic is absolutely not an issue.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
12 Nov 2010 #20
The fact of the matter is that Poland was the most tolarent country in Europe!.

Sure, the I RP was famous for this.

And I could go on.......all you show me is some instances in the 2RP a fragile country were most of the population didn't fully understand the values and virtues which make you Polish as they were influenced by foreign powers

You're the one that argued about the II RP being intolerant! Anyway, the II RP was a bit of a disaster full stop.

I never denied the liberal democracy that the I RP was famous for.

It is the roots of our identity. It would be fair to say that if it wasn't for the church there would be no Poland atm. Catholicism has played monumental roles in our history. We also perceive ourselves as the Christ of nations due to our history. That is why most Poles are so devout. And most of us are very mindful of our liberal past,

Oh jeez, kiddo. Spend some time here before commenting on these things - I can tell that you really don't know much about the place as it is today. Poles do not care about the "liberal" past - there's a significant minority which regards any sort of liberalism as evil. The whole Christ of Nations thing is just plainly ridiculous, too.

Are you actually Polish (as in born here?), or are you an American?
OP ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
12 Nov 2010 #21
Omg, Asik, you totally take the cake...

They are lazy and well organised group of criminals

hmmm... either lazy OR well-organized...
I'm sorry you had first-hand experience with stealing and prostitution. I'm just saying, you had to, because otherwise a smart woman like you wouldn't be making general statements about a whole nation based on some hear-say and stereotypes.

These scambags should be put in one controlled area

like, say, a concentration camp?...

It is the most disgusting thing it could ever happen to human - to be gay.

oh, right, way worse than being a murderer or a thief, or a liar, or a closed-minded bigot...
nah, being gay is THE WORST ever...
Polonia1 3 | 53
12 Nov 2010 #22
It is the most disgusting thing it could ever happen to human - to be gay.
There is nothing more to say.

Im not gay, but ur comments disgust me. Either ur hiding ur own insecurities or ur a idiot. Come on! how can we distinguish our selves from the rag heads in the middle east who stone people for being different.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
12 Nov 2010 #23
like, say, a concentration camp?...

deplh how long do you think she will last here? Is she gonna be a 1000 + poster or just one of many that couldn't get past 50?
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
12 Nov 2010 #24
The more one reads about Poland, the more evidence there seems to be that the whole country just prides itself on intolerance.

Which Poles?? Some are and some aren't.

Gays couldn't donate blood in the US until very recently. Lot's of anti-Semitic voices in the leftist spectrum right now, been to Detroit lately? Plenty of hypocrisy all over the world, not just Poland.

If you don't like what you see here this is your chance to turn the tide, to rebuke rasist and sexist remarks you see here.

If you rename your thread to "Are ALL Poles bigots and xenophobes?". My reply will be "NO, absolutely not!"

If you keep the current title: "Are Poles bigots and xenophobes?"

My reply will be which ones? Because that's the only logical answer one can give to your question.
Polonia1 3 | 53
12 Nov 2010 #25
The usage of "we" is particularly sickening when you aren't actually Polish, nor do you live in Poland.

Well I am Polish, and although I dnt live there, that is the philosophy I was not only taught as a child but the philosophy i discovered myself when reading Polish history. Also who the hell are u to say who's polish and who's not. My perspective of what it means to be Polish makes me more Polish then you. Yeah things are changing....wow....that does not destroy the virtues a values that make up the character of the nation.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
12 Nov 2010 #26
Well I am Polish, and although I dnt live there, that is the philosophy I was not only taught as a child but the philosophy i discovered myself when reading Polish history.

But you don't live here, so how can you know anything about Poland?

What you've read in history books doesn't change the fact that there hasn't been a liberal government in charge of Poland for 21 years.
OP ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
12 Nov 2010 #27
It is the roots of our identity.

I would hope it would translate into compassion and charity, and mutual solidarity, and selflessness, not dogmatism and narrow-mindedness. I'm sure there are good Poles doing good things. And then I can also see and read some dimwits here. I don't need to point my finger, they're waving their own white-and-red freak flags...

I hear it was quite difficult to opt-out of the Catholic activities at school 10-15 years ago, I hope things changed. Kids felt left out if they didn't participate in the whole First Communion thing, or if they had to wait in the school's hallway for an hour while all their peers attended religion classes. The option not to be a Catholic kid was there on paper but it wasn't valid given the peer pressure or how such family would be treated by neighbors.
Polonia1 3 | 53
12 Nov 2010 #28
The whole Christ of Nations thing is just plainly ridiculous,

"Polish Catholicism particularly is inclined to define itself around the idea of its victim hood. Since the nineteenth century and through most of the twentieth, Poland was self-styled "Christ among the nations," an epithet associated with the nineteenth-century Romantic poet Adam Mickievicz. Poland's passion and death, repeatedly enacted at the hands of imperialist neighbors from the early 1800s to 1939 engendered a stoic hope Poland's suffering would redeem the godlessness of modern Europe and would at last restore Christendom."- James Carroll

But you don't live here, so how can you know anything about Poland?

Well obviously I do know somthing about it, as I know more of what it means to be Polish then you.......................also what exactly do u consider a liberal govt. abortion, prostitution, legalization of drugs? The current govt is and should be as liberal as it gets

I would hope it would translate into compassion and charity, and mutual solidarity, and selflessness, not dogmatism and narrow-mindedness

yes Absolutely, spot on
OP ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
12 Nov 2010 #29
how long do you think she will last here?

Lol, what do you get for 1,000+ posts? carpal tunnel? dude, seriously, get a life...

I was hoping to get into an interesting conversation, but it seems that some people mistake interesting for hostile... Particularly people who seem to follow very rigid criteria on who is and who isn't Polish. Or who dismiss the opinions of anyone who does not live in Poland currently but are perfectly happy to make statements about regions and places they haven't been to themselves, or make assumptions about other people based on their address or their place of birth.

Way to go, people, you would make Kosciuszko proud... I'm actually very happy some of you seem to live far from Texas, and judging by the openness of your mind, you'd all probably get scared sh*tless just trying to leave your village anyway.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,877
12 Nov 2010 #30
"Polish Catholicism particularly is inclined to define itself around the idea of its victim hood

Well...it wasn't alone in going through bad times!

And the time incorporated into Prussia wasn't that bad as they had full rights like other Prussians, press freedom, voting rights, a growing middle class and the state invested heavily into this part. That heavily that one can even today see the differences (having better infrastructure, being Poland A etc.).

Quite everybody in Europe and the world had his up and downs in history (the 30 Years war for example was far more desastreous to the german people than everything thrown at the Poles) but nobody else came up with describing itself as "Christ of nations".

Poles are romantic wussies who think their suffering is something special! That their suffering makes them something special... That's the true reason.. :):):)

What will happen when Poland walks into a future of prosperity, peace and all around success...where will their exception then come from? ;)


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