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Why is Prostitution still legal in Poland?


Wedle 16 | 496
27 Dec 2011  #1
The travelling prostitute is recorded in the tenth century. Dozens of brothels thrived on the outskirts of central Warsaw since its establishment as the national capital in the sixteenth century, as in other large Polish cities and towns. These cities established municipal brothels and taxed both prostitutes and brothelkeepers. The first recorded brothel (Dom publiczny - literally public house) in Poland is considered to be in Bochnia in the 15th century, which catered to merchants who came to buy salt from the mines there. A Hungarian explorer to Poland in the early seventeenth century, Morton Szepsi Csombor, wrote that when he passed through Lipnica Murowana they were "surrounded by a swarm of unclean maidens to flatter and compliment us and play and sing". In Bochnia the city authorities from time to time passed ordinances against "harlots and loose people". In 1610 the mayor and town councilors appointed fines, and an ordinance from 1743 called for severe punishment for adultery. The trade guilds demanded a proper "moral" life of its members, one of the articles of the butcher's guild set a payment of 12 cents into a box for "debauchery or starting a conversation with a married woman".From the fifteenth century police inspected brothels and removed women thought to be infected. The sixteenth century saw the establishment of venereal disease hospitals such as St. Sebastian's in Krakow in 1528 and St. Lazarus, in Warsaw.

As one of the last bastions of the Catholic Church in Poland, how can prostitution still be legal and morally accepted?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
27 Dec 2011  #2
Pro-life, pro-choice ;)
Gruffi_Gummi - | 106
27 Dec 2011  #3
As one of the last bastions of the Catholic Church in Poland, how can prostitution still be legal and morally accepted?

Perhaps because Poland was never a theocratic country? There is a space between what is socially desirable, and what is penalized. This space is called freedom.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
27 Dec 2011  #4
What a fine line it is between the 'honest' working prostitute and the woman who pretends not to be one when getting her dinners and assorted entertainment paid for when dating.
OP Wedle 16 | 496
27 Dec 2011  #5
This space is called freedom.

Many other European countries are democratic societies,yet prostitution is still a crime.

What a fine line it is between the 'honest' working prostitute and the woman who pretends not to be one when getting her dinners and assorted entertainment paid for when dating.

The case for making prostitution against the law, to buy sex begins with the premise that it's base and exploitative and demeaning to sex workers. Legalizing prostitution expands it, the argument goes, and also helps pimps, fails to protect women, and leads to more back-alley violence, not less. This fight over legalization has been waged in the last few years over international human-trafficking laws and proposals to make prostitution legal in countries like Bulgaria, a movement that the U.S. government helped defeat. In 2004, the federal government expressed its position: "The United States government takes a firm stance against proposals to legalize prostitution because prostitution directly contributes to the modern-day slave trade and is inherently demeaning." The government also claims that legalizing or tolerating prostitution creates "greater demand for human trafficking victims.

You don't have to be a moralist or a prude to buy the argument for banning prostitution
southern 75 | 7,097
27 Dec 2011  #6
Why is Prostitution still legal in Poland?

Legal or illegal Polki will always find a way to spread their legs.As long as there are male connoiseurs and females ready for the paper dope prostitution will exist.Only feminists can distort common ground views.
sascha 1 | 826
27 Dec 2011  #7
You don't have to be a moralist or a prude to buy the argument for banning prostitution

regarding that issue there is sth like the 'swedish model'. maybe you should read sth about that

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden
vato loco - | 15
27 Dec 2011  #8
Although many will argue over whether prostitution should be legal or not, most people, I think, agree that it should be decriminalized. Sending women, or men for that matter, to jail for selling sex for money makes no sense. Incarceration is expensive and negatively impacts families & communities.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
27 Dec 2011  #9
"Why is Prostitution still legal in Poland?"
Cause men are still alive :)
BBman - | 344
27 Dec 2011  #10
Legal or not it will always exist.

Pro-life, pro-choice ;)

Ditto.
OP Wedle 16 | 496
27 Dec 2011  #11
regarding that issue there is sth like the 'swedish model'. maybe you should read sth about that

Making illegal to buy, although legal to offer sex, is still not dealing with the problem. Prostitution needs to be outlawed in full, otherwise the pimps and traffickers will have a legal loophole in the law.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
28 Dec 2011  #12
Prostitution is not a legalised profession in Poland but neither is it entriely illegal. A woman is free to offer sexual favours for money, but setting up brothels and having a middleman obtain profits from that practice is illegal. The so-called escort agencies (agencje towarzyskie) are permitted only to get paid for supplying contacts to customers but not to get further involved. Sutenerstwo (pimping) is therefore illegal, as is kuplerstwo (providng premises for prostitution), but the escort agencies do so nevertheless and therefore effectively function as thinly veiled burdellos. This is a clear case of the law being openly flaunted and the authorities turning a blind eye.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,625
28 Dec 2011  #13
Usually because the vast majority of women aren't Polish.

Anyway, the way it works in Poland works quite well - everyone knows where to go, there's no trouble and no-one is bothered by it. Works for me.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
28 Dec 2011  #14
to buy sex begins with the premise that it's base and exploitative and demeaning to sex workers.

Individual women have a right to decide that for themselves.

"The United States government takes a firm stance against proposals to legalize prostitution because prostitution directly contributes to the modern-day slave trade and is inherently demeaning."

Those women who are thus abused should be helped HOWEVER, the vast majority of prostitutes do it because they have drug or drinking or gambling habits. Additionally, many women have total control of themselves and do it for the money and the independence it affords them. In short, they are professional career women. The "politically correct" bureaucrats and certain feminist organizations have tried to convince people that all the prostitutes are abused and demeaned in some manner.

The government also claims that legalizing or tolerating prostitution creates "greater demand for human trafficking victims.

This was a major point foisted by feminist groups. Actually, the opposite would occur as more women would find the 'legality' of prostitution as an excuse to get into it thus any demand for "trafficking victims" would be greatly diminished.

You don't have to be a moralist or a prude to buy the argument for banning prostitution

No you don't, but you forgot to include feminists .........
Good luck banning the planets oldest profession.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
28 Dec 2011  #15
So I have finally encountered someone who actually fraternises with syphlytic tarts. Learn something new every day!
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
28 Dec 2011  #16
I don't know about the syphilitic part, but as a declared Christian I would very much hope you have already 'encountered' someone known (and criticized) for fraternizing with prostitutes...
sascha 1 | 826
28 Dec 2011  #17
Prostitution needs to be outlawed in full, otherwise the pimps and traffickers will have a legal loophole in the law.

the pimps and the clients have to be those who need to be punished.
regarding prostitution sweden is in europe or maybe in the world the 'best functioning' country.

the rest regarding your wishes or opinion regarding prostitution seems to come from sort of 'christian' background, right?
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
28 Dec 2011  #18
the pimps and the clients have to be those who need to be punished.

Yes. Not the women/boys who are victims.

ndividual women have a right to decide that for themselves.

Very few women who go on the game have a glittering palette of career options.

Good luck banning the planets oldest profession.

It's easy enough to ban, but near impossible to enforce. There are prostitutes working every city in the world. Including the Vatican and Mecca.
Harry
28 Dec 2011  #19
There are prostitutes working every city in the world.

Exactly. And when it is criminal to manage or employ prostitutes, only criminals will want to do it. The least worst solution for everybody involved is legalisation and regulation.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Dec 2011  #20
BBMan, I guess your logic runs similar to mine. Part of being a Catholic is being pro-life. Life is a series of choices unless you have been enslaved. One reading of the scenario is that 'oh, we will save your life' but then tell you how to run it. I really don't see the problem with sex services here. It's just another contract. It's a private arrangement. As I type, I am sure that some guy is calling up a girl from such a service and they are arranging to have sex. Now, it may disgust some that the girl can choose to just 'do it' with any guy. However, that's what she chooses and there is harm aversion. They can be as safe as any normal couple when performing the act.
OP Wedle 16 | 496
28 Dec 2011  #21
REENT, BE REDEEMED!

"Both the secular and religious ideal in the medieval period was to reclaim the prostitute if at all possible, and the medieval Christian was always conscious from the example of Mary Magdalene that a harlot could achieve salvation. Usually the machinery of the Church stood ready to assist women willing to leave the life of sin, although it was recognized that realistically chances for successful reform were slim. Still the hope of reform was there and two major avenues of reform were advance. Favored by most reformers were attempts to induce the repentant prostitute to enter the religious life, to become a nun.. . . In 1198 Pope Innocent III urged that all good citizens attempt to reclaim prostitutes. . .

A second method of dealing with the reformed prostitute was to encourage her to marry. . . In 1109 Pope Innocent II lauded those who married harlots in order to reform them and described their actions as not "least among the works of charity." Those who rescued public prostitutes and took them to wife were performing acts that would count for the remission of their own sins."

"Prostitution: An Illustrated Social History " Vern&Bonnie Bullough/ Crown Books 1978

iswface.org/quotes.html
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Dec 2011  #22
"although it was recognized that realistically chances for successful reform were slim". Many choose to go into it and some just need the money. Applying archaic notions is not going to help the process.
a.k.
28 Dec 2011  #23
Why is Prostitution still legal in Poland?

I was not to talk to you anymore but I can't help asking you this question:
Why prostitution is still legal in the UK?
Question in the thread implies that Poland is the only country where prostitution is not legislated in any way (exept organised forms of it) while truth is that the same situation as in Poland is in the most countries of Western Europe (including as well Catholic Ireland and Italy). Exeption is only Sweden, Island and Norway where the clients are punished.

On the other hand legislated legalisation inludes Germany, Austria, Greece and The Netherlands.
In Europe prostitution is banned only in the former Soviet republics and the former Yugoslavia.

If someone knows Polish on wiki there is very wide and informative article about that. According to it most women who are prostitutes has chosen that "profession" because of difficult econimic situation (more than 60% of women in the survey), while only 17% of women were lured by the money the business is offering and 14% wanted a better life standard for themselves.

Before some user (you know who) will try to persuade that I justify prostitution because I'm pointing out that it exists in other countries, I want to declare I'm morally against it because I believe those women are making themselves harm, and commit the biggest mistake in their life by choosing a way of life from where there is no return. However I don't think that it should be considered a crime. They hurt themselves not other people.
OP Wedle 16 | 496
28 Dec 2011  #24
Why prostitution is still legal in the UK?

There are over 1.2 million Poles in the uk.

unnecessary comment removed
a.k.
28 Dec 2011  #25
There are over 1.2 million Poles in the uk.

What it has to do with my question?
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
28 Dec 2011  #26
Why prostitution is still legal in the UK?

It isn't nor ever has been.
a.k.
28 Dec 2011  #27
There are over 1.2 million Poles in the uk.

1.2 mln?! can ask you about data supporting this number?

It isn't nor ever has been.

On the map on wikipedia entry for prostytucja it's said that in the UK there is the same case as in Poland.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
28 Dec 2011  #28
On the map on wikipedia entry for prostytucja it's said that in the UK there is the same case as in Poland.

Soliciting is illegal as is paying for sex. The change in the law in 2010 still means that prostitution (i.e. sex for money) is illegal. The only difference is that the person who pays is the criminal, not the person who is paid. Personally I approve of the new law.
Archysski 1 | 6
28 Dec 2011  #29
Prostitution needs to be outlawed in full, otherwise the pimps and traffickers will have a legal loophole in the law.

Exactly. Just look at Sweden, it's not a crime to offer sex, but it's a crime to buy it. And what does the Police in Sweden say about it ? - That there is still prostitution and there is even more women on the streets now.

But why do people want to make it illegal ?
OP Wedle 16 | 496
28 Dec 2011  #30
1.2 mln?! can ask you about data supporting this number?

The number of Poles in the UK could only be a guesstimate,many Poles in the UK are sub existence dwellers, therefore they do not register and work in the black economy.


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