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Mixed race girl in Poland, good idea?


convex 20 | 3,978
8 Mar 2010 #91
There is also no room for stealing **** from my car, but it happens.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Mar 2010 #92
Then why does Poland have a reputation for being a bad place for black people to visit? Even this thread is evidence of that.

Because of cultural differences maybe? For instance starring at somebody, making eye contact is not consider of being impolite in Poland. For a coloured person with hyper-sensitivity on this spot, who grow up - lets say- in the UK it may be seen as racist.

Or asking personal questions. Is a mark of friendship and kindness. And since majority of Poles presume that all black people comes from Africa, the question "So - how's Africa? Hot?" would be unavoidable in certain situations.

Or shops. As you probably aware - in most shops you would be ignored until you ask for service.

Really - there is a lot of situation when some natural Polish way of behaving may be received as racist by the Western standards.

A narrow textbook definition of a certain type of racism. That is not the entire definition of racism, it only describes a certain kind that has risen in the West through slavery and Nazism.

Your definition of racism is (as I presume) when somebody express contempt or dislikes someone of other race. Too broad IMHO
This reminds me when one of my friends accused other one of being anti-semite. An the answer was: "I don't like not because you are a Jew, but because you are a B***rd".

Convex - stealing is OK. Cars have no souls ;-)
Matowy - | 295
8 Mar 2010 #93
Your definition of racism is (as I presume) when somebody express contempt or dislikes someone of other race. Too broad IMHO.

You presume wrong. Racism is a prejudice directed towards people of a specific or broad ethnic group. Further meanings can include prejudice based on culture, nationality, or stereotype enforcement.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,296
8 Mar 2010 #94
Jemma - don't listen to the few rasists you've encountered. Don't think of them as Polish rasists, instead think of them as morons, in this case Polish morons. There's beauty in each and every race and if they fail to see that, well, that's their problem.

Unfortunately racism, xenofobia, etc. will probably always exist. We humans like to feel better about ourselves by pointing out people who're somehow "different". However, people become very accepting when they see respect from the "unusual" individual. In your case you're trying to learn a new language and enjoy to hang out with your friends and I for one respect your open mind.

Maybe one of your friends has family in Poland? If so, whenever they go for a visit see if you can tag along? I bet ya you'd have a blast and people would be nice to you.

So avoid racist morons because they'll always find a reason to hate someone or something - it's their way to be visible because otherwise they'd be "nobodies" - or "dum nobodies" to be specific.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Mar 2010 #95
You presume wrong. Racism is a prejudice directed towards people of a specific or broad ethnic group. Further meanings can include prejudice based on culture, nationality, or stereotype enforcement.

According to this definition - calling somebody "Czarnuch" can not be seen as racist act as there is no prejudice attached to this word.

Specifically - one can't expect that the said czarnuch would behave in certain way (if he would tend ie to steal, rape, being unemployed, or having poor personal higene etc) as definition and common understanding of word "czarnuch" does not include such broad interpretation.

Thank you.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,156
8 Mar 2010 #96
enkidu I generally agree upon what you said

If we follow western standards, then everyone are racists really...
Matowy - | 295
8 Mar 2010 #97
According to this definition - calling somebody "Czarnuch" .

I have no commentary upon that word, as I have not lived in Poland and do not know its context. If I ever meet a black Polish person, though, I'll be sure to call them "Czarnuch", if it really is as innocent as you say it is.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Mar 2010 #98
Mind that this person may be oversensitive on this point. He/She may decide to be offended. My suggestion - pretend to be blind. This is always safest solution.

Edit - The same day you meet a "black Polish person" - you must play lotto. Chances of positive hit are more-less the same. :)
skysoulmate 14 | 1,296
8 Mar 2010 #99
...In our tradition (Polish, Catholic - I am not sure how to call it) there is no room for real racism.?

Huh?

Enkidu - you remind me of blacks here in the States who say blacks by default cannot be rasist! LOL. Retarded but many believe it. (Off the subject - yes, I said blacks and not African American because unless they were born and raised in Africa they are Americans who happen to be black.)

Rasism exists in each and every culture (or lack of) - your psychoanalysis is confusing and irrelevant here. Just give the girl advice on how to deal with rasist jerks, that's what she's asking for, not your definition of what she's experiencing...
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Mar 2010 #100
Enkidu - you remind me of blacks here in the States who say blacks by default cannot be rasist!

Of course - they can be racist. And some of them are. (like Nation of Islam guys)
The Poles can be racist as well. We just need some time. In unified, monolithic country without any real or visible minorities the whole idea of racism is quite hard to grasp. Who knows - maybe in 20 years Poland would catch-up with the rest of the western world and become as racist country as any other?

On the other hand - Poland always walk her own ways. Unlike most of European countries We never have had colonies. Or real religious war. Or absolute monarchy. So - maybe racism will never be very fashionable in Poland? It is not very popular at this moment. :)
skysoulmate 14 | 1,296
8 Mar 2010 #101
Are you saying until now no Poles have ever been racist? What??? You mean Poles have always treated other minorites well? Lithuanians, Ukraininans, Jews, etc? Got news for you, as long as Poland has existed there have been rasist and xenophobic members of the society. The same applies to Lithuanians, Ukraininans, Germans, etc, etc. Rasism exists everywhere.

Your "in 20 years maybe" statement is just ignorant at best and whitewashy at worst. Reading your past posts makes me believe you're an inteligent person so I'll just assume you were blinded by temporary insanity, that's all
hague1cameron - | 85
8 Mar 2010 #102
JemmaR34

i hope you visit the country and share your observations later on the forum.

Best of luck, i hope you get treated normally and not disrespectfully.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
8 Mar 2010 #103
I once saw this Polish TV weathercaster named Osama Mensa (???) or something like that who is a mix of Caucasian and Negroid features, is stunningly beautiful and speaks perfect Polish. Never heard any disparaging remarks about her in Poland. The native Poles on PF will know who I mean.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
8 Mar 2010 #104
So, according to this thread, a mixed race girl can come to Poland, possibly be called all sorts of names both to her face and behind her back but it is OK because Poles are allegedly innocent to the fact they might be racist (cos it doesn't exist in Poland) and it is all the fault of the non-Pole for being an oversensitive Westerner... (and it would be offensive and 'racist' to suggest otherwise).

Have I understood it correctly?
convex 20 | 3,978
8 Mar 2010 #105
Omenaa Mensah, all kinds of goodness. Don't have to be a native to know that.
1jola 14 | 1,879
8 Mar 2010 #106
Omenaa is a babe. She is just as Polish as anyone.

Black girl from Poland
Matowy - | 295
8 Mar 2010 #107
Gorgeous! Now quickly, someone give me some numbers. I need to go buy a lottery ticket :D
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Mar 2010 #108
Are you saying until now no Poles have ever been racist

You talking about Polish Commonwealth of XVI-XVII century. Fascinating subject. But not in line with this thread, I'm afraid. I want only remaind, that Lithuania was bigger than Poland. Hardly a "minority". :-)

In every country, every community you can find some fanatics of any kind. I am sure - Poland is not different and among its 38 millions's population you can find some real racists. I never deny that.

But racism was never part of our culture or social life. In western world things like slavery, segregation, colonialism were part of official policy with approval from the large part of the population. Not in Poland.

And you - you are very dogmatic person. Your mantra "Racism is everywhere" would not become true thanks to repetitions. This is still a theory. Still needs some proof or arguments.

Is that a part of western mentality? Like this person, who told me that "Czrnuch *is* racist word". And all argument I get is that bold *is*. You all pretend to be open minded, but on some topics you are obviously not. That is interesting.

(No insult meant)
Matowy - | 295
8 Mar 2010 #109
And you - you are very dogmatic person. Your mantra "Racism is everywhere" would not become true thanks to repetitions.

You are in denial. Racism is a part of human nature. Where there are humans, there is racism. We do not need to go through the history of every civilization on earth and dig up examples of racism. It is tedious and unnecessary.
anton888 - | 82
8 Mar 2010 #110
I am a mixed race girl from England

You are born in England? If yes,

there are a few who can be racist towards those of a different skin colour to themselves for no reason what-so-ever

What is your problem? They are in your contry and you simply tell them that "This is England, you don't understand" or "in England, we like it this way, if you don't, no one ask you to come here".

They should understand these well as these are the common answers you will get here when Poles can't answer your question with sense, I only changed the word Poland to England.

Poles are not racist because in Poland racist has different meaning. They don't even allow ppl suggest it or even ask a simple question. But again, This is Poland, I don't understand.
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Mar 2010 #111
Gorgeous! Now quickly, someone give me some numbers. I need to go buy a lottery ticket :D

Get real - she is famous because she is mixed race. Got it? And you probably newer meet or talk to her. Your lucky day has yet to come, I am afraid.

Have I understood it correctly?

Yep you understood - that's racist. :)
As we agreed before - we talking about racism, not name-calling. Stay on topic.

You are in denial. Racism is a part of human nature. Where there are humans, there is racism. We do not need to go through the history of every civilization on earth and dig up examples of racism. It is tedious and unnecessary.

This is dogma. Nothing more. Its like religious credo.
What you said that - "Racism is everywhere, in every country and culture. This is obvious - we don't have to prove it. There's a thousand examples."

Would you mind if some bloody foreigner, who attended other school than you, and who has got some troubles with understanding "obviousness" of this idea would ask you for some explanation? (Don't looking for fight. Just asking a polite question)
Matowy - | 295
8 Mar 2010 #112
Get real - she is famous because she is mixed race. Got it? And you probably newer meet or talk to her. Your lucky day has yet to come, I am afraid.

She's black, she's Polish - she fits all the criteria.

To say "She is famous because she's mixed race" is a huge simplification. Her rare mix of races gave her both Slavic and Negro features, making her features very exotic. On top of this, she is beautiful, and looks after her body. She is not famous because she is mixed race, she is famous because she looks exotic.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
8 Mar 2010 #113
Yep you understood - that's racist. :)

Maybe it is an innocent question, after all, if she has Polish friends maybe she has learned how not to be racist from them.

As we agreed before - we talking about racism, not name-calling. Stay on topic.

Inver made any agreement. I simply pointed out (before you) that the OP might experience behaviour which in UK would be considered racist but in Poland MIGHT be due to ignorance about such things.

I am on topic. OP mentioned stories of Blacks being 'disrespected'. name calling may be a symptom of racism. If someone shouts "N*gger" across the street at somebody, why would it be natural to assume there is no racist taunt involved?
Matowy - | 295
8 Mar 2010 #114
How on earth do I explain something so simple? It is like trying to explain that all humans breath oxygen. Basically, can you think of any culture, any at all, in which racism has not existed? If racism is a learned trait, as you claim, then surely there are cultures out there that have not picked it up yet.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Mar 2010 #115
A personal attack would be if you actually work as a defence lawyer and I described you as flimsy, enkidu. Plus, I used winks :) :)

All Poles I have talked to say czarnuch is racist, enkidu. Maybe it's the German and Ukrainian part of you that is blocking the Polish, co?

Beelzebub is right. It's similar to committing a sin then running off to church and claiming you are a devout Christian with innocent intentions.

When was the last time you called somebody 'cracker' or 'garbacho' or 'white boy', enkidu?

Even the mention of the word 'czarnuch' will get cultured Poles looking on in disgust at you. Try it!
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Mar 2010 #116
How on earth do I explain something so simple? It is like trying to explain that all humans breath oxygen. Basically, can you think of any culture, any at all, in which racism has not existed? If racism is a learned trait, as you claim, then surely there are cultures out there that have not picked it up yet.

That is what I call : "dogmatic thinking". Racism is quite complex phenomena. You was told that truth is this-and-that and newer questioned that statement. I don't believe that any statement can be true per se - without examining it. What makes us all humans is questioning everything, looking for a reason. For instance - in XVII and XIX century it was obvious for most of the European population that black people are not humans or at least not humans in the way that we are. In those times I would be told: "How I can explain to you so basic concept. We breath oxygen, and they are *not* humans. This is obvious."

And yes - I can think of culture free of racism. Or at least presume that such culture *can* exist.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Mar 2010 #117
Enkidu, can you recognise racism when you see it?
enkidu 7 | 623
8 Mar 2010 #118
Even the mention of the word 'czarnuch' will get cultured Poles looking on in disgust at you. Try it!

Of course it will! The same way that calling someone "fatty" would do. If you consider that czarnuch also means "a man who work hard for peanuts" - basically a slave workforce, then its obvious its not a nice thing to say. But how the word used to describe people of any race can be racist? Even I can be czarnuch. :)
Trevek 26 | 1,702
8 Mar 2010 #119
"How I can explain to you so basic concept. We breath oxygen, and they are *not* humans. This is obvious."

Shylock:
I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands,
organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same
food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases,
heal'd by the same means, warm'd and cool'd by the same winter
and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If
you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?
And if you wrong us, do we not revenge? If we are like you in the
rest, we will resemble you in that.
The Merchant Of Venice Act 3, scene 1, 58-68

Matowy - | 295
8 Mar 2010 #120
Coincidentally, that is one of the books I am reading right now.

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