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Poland's expats' colonial mentality?


Lenka 3 | 1,750
1 Jun 2013 #61
I wish the Poles and Polonians on PF would show the same outrage when certain people spread BS about Russians, Germans, Jews, Americans etc. on this forum...

I understand what you mean but sorry- Poland is my homeland. Of course it's closer to my heart. It's natural- our famly is more important to us than strangers. And please believe me I removed many posts with blanket statements about other countries.
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #62
OK, those who were able to understand what I wrote understood it. Those who aren't and didn't understand probably never will.

As far as I understand things, you have an inferiority complex.

Of course, if people perceive themselves as being inferior, they will at some point get treated as being inferior.
Lenka 3 | 1,750
1 Jun 2013 #63
And you can't see how this comment sounds? lol
Paulina 9 | 1,448
1 Jun 2013 #64
As far as I understand things, you have an inferiority complex.

Funny, ifor bach, I didn't have this "inferiority complex" until I started reading this forum :))
Did you get offended by what I wrote?
Are you angry at me? You seem to be.
That's just a simple, basic observation. I made it by reading this forum and drawing conclusions by reading and hearing other sources.
I even remember this older guy, who's half Polish, half Czech, who have seen many things, lived through the war making such observation - those on the left in Europe (geographically) look down on those on the right. Westerners look down on those in the East of them, Poles and Czechs look down on those East of them. And something I discovered myself - Russians look down on the Chinese.

Of course, not everybody does that.
I remember also that during my trip to Italy our guide told us that people in the North of Europe look down to some extent on Southerners. Even Italians in the North do that to Italians in the South, as far as I can remember. Poles in the West of Poland (Poland "A") do that to Poles in the East of Poland (Poland "B").

Of course, if people perceive themselves as being inferior, they will at some point get treated as being inferior.

LOL
OK, I don't even know how to comment that :)
You're scaring me a bit right now lol

And you can't see how this comment sounds? lol

It seems he can't.
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #65
And you can't see how this comment sounds? lol

Maybe I can.

I suggest that Paulina and yourself look at yourselves rather than 'the other'. It will do you good.

What Paulina wrote I've thought about myself, but from the other side of the fence.

It's your problem not ours - therefore it's for you to solve.

Just being honest here.
Paulina 9 | 1,448
1 Jun 2013 #66
I suggest that Paulina and yourself look at yourselves rather than 'the other'. It will do you good.

Of course, but why do you think only we need to do that?
You don't have to see yourself in the mirror?
That's the kind of arrogance I don't like in you guys.

What Paulina wrote I've thought about myself, but from the other side of the fence.

What do you mean?

It's your problem not ours - therefore it's for you to solve.

No, ifor bach, it's our common problem. But I'm not telling you to solve this. I'm just sharing my (and others') observations.

Just being honest here.

It's the same with us. We're just being honest.
Barney 14 | 1,472
1 Jun 2013 #67
It's your problem not ours - therefore it's for you to solve

No it is not her or any other Polish person's problem, if a bunch of migrants sneer at "backward Polish" people how can that possibly be her problem?
Paulina 9 | 1,448
1 Jun 2013 #68
Thank you for that, Barney lol
So you're Irish, eh?
Figures.

;)
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #69
No, ifor bach, it's our common problem. But I'm not telling you to solve this. I'm just sharing my (and others') observations.

Yes, it is 'a common problem'. You have an inferiority complex. You perceive a hierarchy of nations, and you perceive yourselves to be somewhere near the bottom of this hierarchy.

However, this is only your perception of the world. It does not follow that all or even most in 'the west' necessarily see the world in such terms.
Lenka 3 | 1,750
1 Jun 2013 #70
I suggest that Paulina and yourself look at yourselves rather than 'the other'. It will do you good.

I try to do that. If someone's tells me something is wrong I check if his/her comment is true. And I was never patronizing to others.

However, this is only your perception of the world. It does not follow that all or even most in 'the west' necessarily see the world in such terms.

I do not see any better or worse countries and as a consequence I don't think my country is worse. If I did think that I would emigrate.
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #71
No it is not her or any other Polish person's problem, if a bunch of migrants sneer at "backward Polish" people how can that possibly be her problem?

It very much depends on whether this perception is the reality, doesn't it. But no doubt you can twist everything to fit into some convenient anglophobic stereotype, no?
Paulina 9 | 1,448
1 Jun 2013 #72
Yes, it is 'a common problem'. You have an inferiority complex.

No, I don't think I do :) If I did, I would just nod to any rubbish written on this forum about Poland and Poles :)

You perceive a hierarchy of nations, and you perceive yourselves to be somewhere near the bottom of this hierarchy..

I see you misunderstood me. It's not me who perceive nations in such a way. It's how people do that. Have you noticed that I wrote not only about the West?

However, this is only your perception of the world. It does not follow that all or even most in 'the west' necessarily see the world in such terms.

No, ifor bach... For Pete's sake... What I'm trying to say all this time is that there are people in this world who perceive countries and nations in this way. Often they don't even realise that. Both Westerners and Poles.

If you don't look down on any nations or countries, then that's nice. But there are people who do.
I'm not sure why you're being so defensive about it.
Barney 14 | 1,472
1 Jun 2013 #73
It very much depends on whether this perception is the reality, doesn't it.

Yes it does
You decided that the problem lies with the Polish by saying It's your problem not ours - therefore it's for you to solve clearly your perception is that there is no problem with immigrants views of Poland,ie Polish people have a problem not immigrants..

But no doubt you can twist everything to fit into some convenient anglophobic stereotype, no?

Again what problem do you have with my opinion? If you disagree with it just try to form a contrary opinion and post it, after all I'm a thick Mick so it should be easy.
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #74
I'm not sure why you're being so defensive about it.

I don't think I am being 'defensive' about it tbh. It seems like a subject that is causing you great angst. I feel pity for you that you view the world in the way that you do. My advice, for what it's worth, would be to find something more interesting to obsess about than your 'hierarchy of nations theory'.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,916
1 Jun 2013 #75
Yes, it is 'a common problem'. You have an inferiority complex. You perceive a hierarchy of nations, and you perceive yourselves to be somewhere near the bottom of this hierarchy.

Actually, this isn't true in the slightest. While Poles might be fatalist in general, they are also very proud of their country and the history. Even if you talk about WW2 (which was - by all accounts - a total disaster for Poland) - there are some elements that they are incredibly proud of. They're also very, very proud of the fact that Poland survived through two centuries of being controlled by foreign powers.

Even nowadays, people aren't seeing themselves as worse than Western Europe. The only ones that think that are the ones who have never been there - and they probably say it because of the political brainwashing that they are suspectible to.

As far as I can see, the only real Poles living in Poland on this forum seem to be optimistic people. You can't take into account Poles that live abroad - their opinion is all but worthless, just like my opinion of the UK.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
1 Jun 2013 #76
And why did you assume that I don't care about those things? Where did you get that?

From this here:

To me this suggests you don't or you think many Poles don't do anything about problem "x" due to not caring about problem "x." Not all things can be changed but again, if your response is "what can you do?" then that says you don't really care. And it's not a judgmental thing, it's a pure observation. You have your reasons, I am curious what they are but for heaven's sakes, I hope you wouldn't think me arrogant simply for commenting on things other Poles comment on. I hope I've got you completely wrong and that.

lolForeigner4, it's not even wishful thinking, it's simply silly.

Well if I read that the majority of people thought that people where I'm from tend to do this or that I'd ask for some examples and try to get a clearer view of their perspective. I'd give it some thought, y'know decide if there's any merit to the point made, then, objectively reflect on my own habits and decide if i ought to change. I guess that's just me.

Thanks for this rubbish you wrote - it's a nice example of what I had in mind. I'm not "offended".

I just don't see the sense in being rude simply due to a misunderstanding. Please don't write "us" when I am responding to "you" (Paulina)- it is unfair/inaccurate. Perhaps you can see in this example what I mean about you (Paulina) being overly sensitive to perceived criticism.

I just wanted some examples of when you perceive this superiority complex to come out. I appreciate you taking the time to list those examples, I really do. But aside from pip's usual nonsense it seems you (Paulina) get offended when a foreigner says anything you might perceive as being critical of all of Poland. I was trying to understand your point of view more but your explanation/justification of it has suddenly become childish so good luck with that.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,916
1 Jun 2013 #77
when a foreigner says anything you might perceive as being critical of all of Poland.

Because no such thing exists.

The difference in mentality alone between Poznań, £ódź and Lublin alone is massive.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
1 Jun 2013 #78
That's my point.
It seems as though, based on her examples, if I were to comment something needed fixing then, in her mind, it'd be an affront to all of Poland. It seems as though she claims to know the "true" intent of what others might say even if they don't.

Speaking of "the difference in mentality"

So there's only a difference in mentality about the things you say there is but all Poles think alike when you say they do about what you say?

Okay then, good to know that's how your mind works.
Maybe you're the type Paulina was trying to describe....
delphiandomine 83 | 17,916
1 Jun 2013 #79
So there's only a difference in mentality about the things you say there is but all Poles think alike when you say they do about what you say?

"in general".

I find Poland a remarkably upbeat country, all things considered.

What Paulina says on this thread is very, very interesting.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
1 Jun 2013 #80
On those two points we do share varying degrees of agreement.
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #81
I find Poland a remarkably upbeat country, all things considered.

I agree with neither observation, but of course this is only my subjective opinion.

I'm only surprised you haven't heard what Pauline has to say a thousand or so times before.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,916
1 Jun 2013 #82
I'm only surprised you haven't heard what Pauline has to say a thousand or so times before.

What do you mean?

I don't always agree with her, but I can't understand why you think that Paulina (and others) have an inferior complex.
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #83
Because I don't think people from Western countries 'look down' on Poles to the extent she imagines.

Until recently, few people in the UK had any opinion (good or bad) about Poles. They were not people we came much into contact with.

Imho, Poland is obsessed with comparing itself with 'the west', whereas 'the west' is indifferent rather than hostile to 'the east'.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,916
1 Jun 2013 #84
Because I don't think people from Western countries 'look down' on Poles to the extent she imagines.

You know, sadly, they do. You can see on these forums that many Polish-Americans look down on Poland for not being conservative enough, for not doing enough to stop immigrants, for not doing this, for not doing that.

Then you get our countrymen - some like Harry and Jon are really passionate about Poland, but there's plenty of miserable others who spend their lives moaning and whining in expat bars about how Poland doesn't do this and doesn't do that.

And then you go on the internet and read what British people say about Poles. Some have positive opinions, but some are incredibly rude and patronising.

Until recently, few people in the UK had any opinion (good or bad) about Poles. They were not people we came much into contact with.

Agreed. These days are different, however.

Imho, Poland is obsessed with comparing itself with 'the west'

It's quite understandable - for so long, they were longing to have the same as the West had. It is/was exactly the same in Eastern Germany.
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #85
People on internet forums are rarely representative of 'most people' imho.

I remember Polish people who had come to the UK before 2004 and were convinced that everyone was looking down on them. Imho, (of course), they weren't, and it was all in their heads.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
1 Jun 2013 #86
Imho, Poland is obsessed with comparing itself with 'the west', whereas 'the west' is indifferent rather than hostile to 'the east'.

While I disagree with how this was said. I think I can attest to the observation being made.
Back home, no one asks me which country is "better;" there or Poland. People ask lots of questions but that one has never come up, not even once.

Here, regardless of the topic, THE question I am asked almost without exception (and I'm assuming there's an exception) is "Which country is better?"

If I don't just say "Polska" but try to explain different doesn't necessarily mean "better," those asking get offended.

So for those of you who know what people really think please tell some of us how that should be interpreted.

You know, sadly, they do. You can see on these forums that many Polish-Americans look down on Poland for not being conservative enough, for not doing enough to stop immigrants, for not doing this, for not doing that.

This seems as though you're pushing an agenda onto this discussion that shouldn't be here.
newpip - | 140
1 Jun 2013 #87
Back home, no one asks me which country is "better;" there or Poland. People ask lots of questions but that one has never come up, not even once.

I am asked this daily.
ifor bach 11 | 152
1 Jun 2013 #88
So for those of you who know what people really think please tell some of us how that should be interpreted.

I like your responses, Foreigner4, and see them as being generally true.

I used to live in Greece.

In Poland you are ALWAYS asked, "why did you come here?"

The tone of the question is: "you are mad, you did something wrong, you can't find a job etc".

In Greece, the question wouldn't be necessary - "everything about us is the best, you would have to be stupid/mad NOT to come here if given the opportunity to do so".
Ironside 49 | 10,108
1 Jun 2013 #89
well, I can only say that those people who know so called west only superficially do imagine that it is a better place than Poland. Also, not only Polish people ask those questions.

Why they get offended cause your caution answer they interpret as in Poland is no better and you are here because you have to.

In Poland you are ALWAYS asked, "why did you come here?"

Well in Poland the live for an average Pole is very heard and objectively the system in Poland and generally the state is discriminating against its citizens in many ways. Unless you are a part of the system, or you found yourself a nice niche. I suspect that former works for most foreigners in Poland.
TheOther 6 | 3,821
1 Jun 2013 #90
In Poland you are ALWAYS asked, "why did you come here?"

This is a cultural trait. The same would happen to you in Germany.


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