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Expat, immigrant, foreigner. Not all foreigners in Poland are expats.


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jun 2013 #1
Someone on another thread stated: 'Not all foreigners in Poland are expats.'

That raises an interesting question. How does the expat differ from the immigrant and foreigner in Poland.
I used to think an expat is here for s shorter stay and will eventually return to his homeland.
Did those Polish immigrants who went to America in the early 20th century become expats (althouhg thart terminology was not used back then), when they decided to return to Poland after the war?

A foreigner in Poland could be a tourist, businessman, student or other person just passing through or staying for a specific, usually short length of time.

Then there are the refugees and asylum seekers which constitue a separate category.
Of coursde, the status can change. A student or asylum seeker may decide to stay, marry, set up a fmaily, etc. Immigrants can also have a change of heart at some point and decide to retrun home.

Any thoughts on this?
jon357 71 | 20,367
25 Jun 2013 #2
An expat is someone posted by his or her employer for a fixed term.

What are you by the way? A you a Polish citizen?
Harry
25 Jun 2013 #3
An expat is someone posted by his or her employer for a fixed term.

That's the commonly understood definition.

A you a Polish citizen?

I very much doubt that he is, so he's an immigrant.
jon357 71 | 20,367
25 Jun 2013 #4
Even an immigrant can get citizenship providing they meet the criteria - I certainly do and could get it without delay. Not much point though, since I already have a passport from an EU country and the right to live here.

Oddly enough, I probably meet the criteria for being a Polish expat, since I live here permanently but work on postings elsewhere. Funny old world.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jun 2013 #5
So basically you're saying citizenship is what makes the difference.
Except in America many Polish immirgant have lived their lives there and never became US citizens or did so only later in life.
What about a self-emplyoed vaccum-clear salesman, car mechanic or English teacher who is not sent by anyone but comes on his own. Expat or immigrant? If he acquries citizenship then I presume he becomes a naturalised Pole.
Harry
25 Jun 2013 #6
What about a self-emplyoed vaccum-clear salesman, car mechanic or English teacher who is not sent by anyone but comes on his own. Expat or immigrant?

Immigrant.

The interesting thing about Poland is that some expats become immigrants.
jon357 71 | 20,367
25 Jun 2013 #7
So basically you're saying citizenship is what makes the difference.

No. Though it can obviously play a part. There isn't a 'one size fits all' way of looking at it.

What about a self-emplyoed vaccum-clear salesman, car mechanic or English teacher who is not sent by anyone but comes on his own. Expat or immigrant?

Neither. An EU migrant probably. The freedom to live and work anywhere within the Union means that it's time to redefine some of the terminology we use.

If he acquries citizenship then I presume he becomes a naturalised Pole.

Perhaps, just as many Poles become naturalised Brits. We need to wait until the EU standardises the rules in each country before thinking too much about terminology. This process is happening now.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jun 2013 #8
Many dzięks!
jon357 71 | 20,367
25 Jun 2013 #9
What would you say about someone from, say, Brazil who's three quarters Russian, or Chinese, or Ukrainian, or Czech or Jewish, or French, or Lithuanian or whatever but chooses to identify with the Polish bit and settles here?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jun 2013 #10
Americans popularly refer to such people as Heinz 57 (varieties) -- referring to the slogan of a well-known ketchup (or is it catsup) maker.
Obama has gone on record as saying: 'I'm just a mutt!'
poland_
25 Jun 2013 #11
In its broadest sense, an expatriate is any person living in a different country from where they are a citizen. In common usage, the term is often used in the context of professionals sent abroad by their companies, as opposed to locally hired staff. The differentiation found in common usage usually comes down to socio-economic factors, so skilled professionals working in another country are described as expatriates, whereas a manual labourer who has moved to another country to earn more money might be labelled an 'immigrant'. There is no set definition and usage does vary depending on context and individual preferences and prejudices. 'Expatriation' has also been used in a legal sense to mean 'renunciation of allegiance;' the U.S. Expatriation Act of 1868 said in its preamble, 'the right of expatriation is a natural and inherent right of all people, indispensable to the enjoyment of the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.'

The term 'expatriate' in some countries also has a legal context used for tax purposes. An expatriate living in a country can receive a favourable tax treatment. In this context a person can only be an expatriate if they move to a country other than their own to work with the intent of returning to their home country within a certain period. The number of years can vary per tax jurisdiction, but 5 years is the most commonly used maximum period. If you are not affected by taxes 3 years is normally the maximum time spent in one country.

What about a self-emplyoed vaccum-clear salesman, car mechanic or English teacher who is not sent by anyone but comes on his own. Expat or immigrant? If he acquries citizenship then I presume he becomes a naturalised Pole.

If he/she is self employed and they expand their business to Poland, then we must regard them as a 'entrepreneur' or as more commonly known in Poland ' Investor'. If the entrepreneur qualified for a Polish citizenship, he would become a dual passport holder, unless he renounced his original citizenship, then he would become a naturalised Pole.

Except in America many Polish immirgant have lived their lives there and never became US citizens or did so only later in life.

The question to be asked have they taken the oath of renunciation and allegiance?

Polinius 3, have you taken the oath of renunciation and allegiance?

Come now be honest.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
25 Jun 2013 #12
Many people use 'expat' for people having moved from a richer country to a poorer one (e.g. a Brit to Poland) and 'immigrant' for a person who moved from a poorer country to a richer one (a Pole to England).

I disagree with this definition but it is awfully popular.
I am an immigrant and i am astounded by the amount of people who use this word (perhaps even unbeknownst to themselves) as a slur.

Edit*
Ah, I see yet again this thread is actually about baiting the OP for personal information so he can be brow beaten than an actual topic for discussion.

I'm out
szarlotka 8 | 2,208
25 Jun 2013 #13
I thought an 'expat' was someone who had changed their name from Patrick or Patricia to something more appropriate for their new surroundings.

Bin me for flippancy
sobieski 107 | 2,128
25 Jun 2013 #14
For me an expat is also someone who is sent by his company overseas for a defined span of time. I consider myself an immigrant.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jun 2013 #15
Those that attend citizenship classes which end with passing an exam are requried to take an oath of allegiance to the Untied States and renounce allegiance to other countries.* Those who remain immigrants do not. Of course every US-born school child and immigrant kids to in both public and Catholic schools recite daily with hand over heart: 'I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and the Republic for which it stands -- one nation, under God, indivisible. with freedom and jsutice for all.' Jehova's Witnesses, who pledge allegiance to no earthly empire, simply stand silently by.

Other than that I have never sworn nor been requested to swear any separate oath.

*From what I gather, In actuality the US authorities turn a blind eye to dual or multiple citizenship as does Poland and other countries.
poland_
25 Jun 2013 #16
*From what I gather, In actuality the US authorities turn a blind eye to dual or multiple citizenship

Except for tax purposes.
f stop 25 | 2,513
25 Jun 2013 #17
to me, immigrant is someone that made his mind as to which country he wants to live in, while expat is not fully committed.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Jun 2013 #18
How many expats do you know that have returned to their homr counrtries after stints in Poland?
Do they outnumber those who have decided to settle permanently?
Do many expats marry Polish nationals?
f stop 25 | 2,513
25 Jun 2013 #19
I know of two couples, friends of my parents, that moved back to Poland. They all planned to retire there. Both returned to the US. One couple decided to retire in US, second couple is still undecided and keeping residences in both countries.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
25 Jun 2013 #20
An expat is someone posted by his or her employer for a fixed term.

This definition of "expatriate" is not at all exhaustive

an expatriate is any person living in a different country from where they are a citizen.

immigrant is someone that made his mind as to which country he wants to live in, while expat is not fully committed.

These two answers above, to the OP's query, are the most correct.

The reader may remember the so called "Lost Generation" of the decades between the two world wars. They were expatriate American artists living in Europe, but they were not there at the behest of any employers.
Harry
25 Jun 2013 #21
The reader may remember the so called "Lost Generation" of the decades between the two world wars. They were expatriate American artists living in Europe, but they were not there at the behest of any employers.

Isn't it interesting how the meaning of words changes of the decades. Although in our case your reference is useless, given that the word 'expat' didn't appear until 1962. I do hope that you aren't trying to insult any foreigners in Poland with your reference to 'lost generation'; from memory most of the "Lost Generation" were living off their parents, which is not a statement which can be made about any of the foreigners in Poland who post here.

This definition of "expatriate" is not at all exhaustive

Jon was not defining the word 'expatriate', he was defining the word 'expat'. Why do you pretend otherwise?

These two answers above, to the OP's query, are the most correct.

No they are not, but thanks for your input anyway, always nice to hear people who have never been an expat or lived outside their home country telling other people that they are or are not expats.
smurf 39 | 1,981
25 Jun 2013 #22
How many expats do you know that have returned to their homr counrtries after stints in Poland

Most of them I would reckon.

I think people find it difficult to integrate here. While Poles are hospitable & open once you get to know them, they aren't exactly open to meeting strangers and it takes a long time to gain a Poles trust. The younger generation are however far more open, so maybe we'll see a change over the next few years.

Do they outnumber those who have decided to settle permanently?

In my experience I would say yes, most people leave.....and the ones that remain only stay here because of a spouse/partner.
Now, the only immigrants I've known were teachers and it's pretty difficult to carve out a living here on pittance wages and it's a far earier option (for teachers anyway) to move somewhere where the money is better and the winters aren't so harsh..... i.e Korea, etc.

Plus it's not always easy to move to a country that is far more conservative then your own. Saying you support gay marriage or abortion will be met will darting looks of death, and god-forbid you admit that you're an atheist. Racism is rife across the board and politics is totally bonkers here. However, with the young Poles becoming far more educated than their parents and grandparents the future looks good for Poland, socially anyway. Economically, it's a different kettle of fish...but maybe when the croonies in positions of power begin to relinquish their positions we could see a long overdue overhaul of the processes in place.

Progress is a great thing, people would be far better off to embrace it rather than to fight against it.

No they are not

Dead right.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
25 Jun 2013 #23
Now, the only immigrants I've known were teachers and it's pretty difficult to carve out a living here on pittance wages and it's a far earier option (for teachers anyway) to move somewhere where the money is better and the winters aren't so harsh..... i.e Korea, etc.

Certainly if you want to make a go of teaching in Poland, you have to be able to think outside the box. Anyone content to just be a "native speaker" will always, always struggle.
Harry
25 Jun 2013 #24
Most of them I would reckon.

Most of the expats I have known tend to move on to another country rather than returning to their 'home' country. Most of the ones who do return 'home' are doing so to retire.
smurf 39 | 1,981
25 Jun 2013 #25
Anyone content to just be a "native speaker" will always, always struggle.

100% agree with ya.

Too many come expecting things to be handed to them. It's tough here as we all know, but if you do put in a lot of work, eventually it will pay off.

tend to move on to another country

I suppose that would make sense, especially for younger ones who can just up sticks and move on to greener pastures.
newpip - | 140
25 Jun 2013 #26
I am happy with the term foreigner. I am not an expat and I am not an immigrant.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
25 Jun 2013 #27
Too many come expecting things to be handed to them. It's tough here as we all know, but if you do put in a lot of work, eventually it will pay off.

That's what I keep saying too. Poland is a land of opportunity if you're willing to work at it - but I guess most native speakers just don't want the hassle.

I met one moaning bastard a few years ago who was whining and crying about how he couldn't make a living here. It turned out that he would turn up, teach his classes and bugger off home straight away - and that he'd never even asked his boss about the possibility of taking on more responsibility. He didn't want to sit in an office doing admin things, nor did he want to stay in work more than he had to.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
25 Jun 2013 #28
Although in our case your reference is useless, given that the word 'expat' didn't appear until 1962.

Hahahahahahaha! What a stupid claim! "Expatriate" is from the Latin "expatriatus" it means quite simply "out of ones fatherland" and it has existed for centuries. If you want to claim that its abbreviation, "expat", is a new word from 1962 then you are, once again, the laughing stock of this forum! Hahahahahahahahahaha!

I do hope that you aren't trying to insult any foreigners in Poland with your reference to 'lost generation'; from memory most of the "Lost Generation" were living off their parents, which is not a statement which can be made about any of the foreigners in Poland who post here.

Hahahahahahaha! Referencing the Lost Generation was the giving of an example of expatriatism, if you believe that this was somehow a slur directed at you, and your gang, then you truly are paranoid. Harry your claim to know the personal financial situations of all the foreigners in Poland, who post here, is both hilarious and indicative of a delusional mind state. The fact is that you do not know the personal information of all the expatriates on this forum and your claiming otherwise is very stupid and indicative of the megalomaniacal gangster mindset that your clique plagues this forum with in your posts.

Des Essientes: These two answers above, to the OP's query, are the most correct. No they are not, but thanks for your input anyway, always nice to hear people who have never been an expat or lived outside their home country telling other people that they are or are not expats.

Harry, you need to stop making claims about posters' personal lives. You do not know whether or not I have ever been an expatriate or lived outside of my home country. Your claiming otherwise shows the forum, yet again, that you are delusional and very rude. Stop making claims about other posters' personal lives and stick to the topics of the threads here. PF has had enough of your idiotic gangsterism.
Harry
25 Jun 2013 #29
If you want to claim that its abbreviation, "expat", is a new word from 1962 then you are, once again, the laughing stock of this forum!

The first recorded usage of the word 'expat' was in 1962. Do feel free to argue that point with Merriam Webster: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expat

Harry your claim to know the personal financial situations of all the foreigners in Poland, who post here, is both hilarious and indicative of a delusional mind state.

Can you name any foreigners living in Poland who post here and live off their parents? I certainly can't.
poland_
25 Jun 2013 #30
he was defining the word 'expat

Expat - Someone who was very clever and got the f..k out of their dying country quickly.

The above is the best explanation I have found.


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