The Blame Game (Have you ever noticed that a Polish person is never wrong!?)

Have you ever noticed that a Polish person is never wrong!!!!
Whether it is a girlfriend, work colleague or a professional advisor, they are, never wrong. It is always somebody else's fault.
The architect makes a mistake, alters your plans and fails to tell the local authourity of the change, you get fined, but, the architect is not responsible, its down to your building inspector who, "only" signed off the change. Try taking this to court!!!! ( if you have 10 years of your life to waste}

The "clerk" at the local authourity who asks you to bring the documents you need and then tells you that you need several other documents. You are supposed to "know", you are the "dummy" because you do not understand the job they are paid to do!!!!

You park your car (next to other parked cars) and then get a ticket, you ask where the signs saying "no parkling" are and you are told that there "are none" and you should "know".

(as a foriegner, I am not physcic)
I do not want to spend every weekend with family or friends visiting. I would like some time on my own with my family. ( wrong, you are unsociable), this is normal?.

I was only talking to my sister/mother for 3 hours on the phone. The fact this is also a business line is immaterial. I am wrong again.

I can accept mistakes, I can put up with lies. I cannot repeat "cannot" underderstand why I should have to "pay" for everyone else's mistakes.

If a mistake is made here, nobody seems to pay for it, except me!!!. (When you talk to a lawyer, he/she tells you its a WASTE OF TIME} why do I have to pay (in time and money) for people who have no idea what they are doing?.

Untill Tusk, and whatever stupid government in Poland, realises, what a hell it is to, actually do business here, it will always be a backward country.

Nobody is reponsible. The stadiums for the 2012 football championships will be finished. Where are the fans supposed to stay? where are the roads to travel to the grounds? How can you build hotels when you have no knowledge where the roads are actually going to be?. After 3 years, the Polish government sacks one man, that makes everythibg ok. Nobody else is responsible.

The "A4" to the Ukarine (between Bresko and Wierzchsławice has not been worked on for the past 8 months, why?, a dispute between the contractor and the government over payments!!!, did this happen in China, Greece, Seoul, or any other country which held a major event?

Always, somebody else is to blame.
When I make a mistake, I accept it, hold my hand up and get on with my life. It seems that the people of my adopted country, cannot do this.

I love where I live, I love the people. For the first time in 8 years, I am beginning to question whether this country will be right for me. I have tried to adapt, but there seems to be no logical thinking here, and, its not changing for the better.

Countries survive on "small business's" which create jobs and wealth. Its OK trying to lure the big companies here, but, they will only stay as long as the tax breaks and the wages stay low, then, they will move on.

I have the money so that I do not have to work, I could live off of the interest. This is no satisfaction to me. I want to help/create something here in Poland, but, the government makes it so difficult to even try.

When people "blame", foriegn investors, they ought to look at their own government which encourages the large companies that pay low wages.
Ask yourself, why, a country like the UK, has no VAT on new housing!!!, this encourages more development, creates construction jobs and boosts the economy.

Here in Poland, everybody has an uncle, cousin, friend who will tile their floor, build their houses, fence the property, landscape the garden,for, cash.

Where is the tax that should be going into in the economy?. Who is to balme for the fact you have to live in a "s**thole because your government does not understand "basic" economics.

I am sure the Polish government means well, but, I can also understand why the average Polish man drinks 500ml of vodka every night. He needs it to get through the next day.

A mesage to all the members of the "Sjem". Do not write a book in 5 years time about what is wrong. Put your hands up now and "change" the system.

Lets save 10 years and make this country, great, now!!!!!.
Forget your own ambitions!!!, the people are great!!!, listen to them.

I call them The Never Wrongs. It's a waste of time contesting things with them as they are always in the right in their eyes. I could give many examples but I'm too tired now.

Nice thread, Avalon. I'm sure you'll get attacked by those defensive types but I know exactly where you are coming from.

There are people like that in different countries, not just Poland. It's just the way it is.

There's a great quote by John Paul II that sums this up wonderfully - "the future is today, not tomorrow".


Legally, this would get thrown out of court - it's a formality to take it there and get it thrown out. What's more, they'd be wasting their money by supplying an interpreter, so it might not even go that far. Only works though if you live close to the court where it will be.


Every weekend? I'd go insane! An Englishman's home is his castle, after all - who wants random family/friends turning up every weekend, with all the stress and hassle?


Have you seen the disaster with the Edinburgh trams? Same situation :(


Done much business here, have we?

I thought you would understand. I am tired now, tired of fighting the system. I can earn money anywhere in the world with my skills.

I thought that Poland would evolve, change rapidly to absorb, Western ideas. I was wrong, people said that it would take 15 years, even that was optomistic!!!, the (communistic) authourities are still in place and until this generation takes over, nothing, will change.

Like WB, I thought I could change things!!! wrong!!! no way!!!!. You are always fighting a lost cause.
I still have a flat in Barcelona and may go back there. At least I will be able to watch decent football. Its not cheap to live there, but Poland is heading the same way and at least the Winters are not that bad.

Poland has been ruled mostly by either post communists or ex trade union activists. Small business owners by definition don't make it into Sejm.

It's like running in a dream. Everything happens in slow motion ;) So you understand now why we are going to UK. We wish taste a logical thinking but not eat it forever. We still want have a place where can take a rest from logical thinking (hmm because we are lazy? ;)

No offence, but you sound terribly bitter-it seems to me that you are magnifying your personal problems onto the national picture.

And BTW-I lived in several countries and likewise haven't come across a government employee who willingly owns up to a mistake-this isn't a Polish thing, it is very much universal.


If the land of the 20% unemployed and maniana takes your fancy-why not go for it.

And for what's it worth, maybe apart for the German government, perhaps even Sweden-I don't think that Europe has a better government than the one led by PO.

No I haven't noticed that a Polish person is never wrong. Some of the most humble self critical people I know are Polish.

Avalon

Its stupid and ridiculous for you to make these broad generalizations about the Polish people or any group of people.

Whenever a person says "Polish people are (fill in the blank)" or "Jewish people are (fill in the blank)" or "Black people are (fill in the blank)" , etc it just points out the ignorance of the person making the comment. If you said there are SOME Poles like this, then that would be a fair comment since we all know there are all types of people in every group of people.

This is another one of these defamatory loaded anti-Polish topics along the lines of "Why do Polish people beat there wives so much?" type topics, meant to knock Polish people.


Seanus how long do you think it would take you to become a "Never Wrong Scot" if people were to point out all the perceived negative things of people of Scottish ancestry? I get the feeling, not too long.

I don't, I think they are a bunch of thieving lazy fukkers ho are up to no good.

Here we go again the 7-8 year itch, every time I leave PL for a more civilized country, I realize what I am missing by living in PL. My only consolation, is that it is not quite as bad as the Ukraine


I was in Barcelona two weeks ago, the prices have increased although real estate is still going down.
.

I do agree with some of your observations and others I don't. I have experienced a "never wrong" moment first hand. I was parked in a parking lot, had just gotten out of my car when a woman pulled up beside me and opened her door. The wind had taken the door out of her hand and it smashed into the side of my car. She then proceeds to scream at me because the wind took the door out of her hand- yes this was my fault and I wanted her door to smash into my car.

There was no apologies, no concern, nothing. --it was my fault.

On March 5, 1964, Mr. Walenty Winokowski admitted to being "wrong", but Mrs. Winokowski corrected him and said that he wasn't.
Conversely, (or almost so), Stash McShane who is only half Polish admitted to being only half wrong which of course made him half right.
Coincidently on that same date, Jeeves Smith being English, never had to address the righteousness of being right or wrong. He just kept a stiff upper lip which he blamed on Botox injections.

Just because you have mental problems and cannot adapt? ):):):)

No way. Polish culture must stay as it is.


I agree.
Avalon, are you navalon? ):):)


It seems you either lack 500 ml of vodka to get through the next day or you have already gulped it and gone for more. ):):):)

I've always looked at this as somebody always having to be guilty, i.e., a sinner. I thought it was a Catholic thing.

I think it's pretty obvious that you don't know real Polish people if you think so. Poles are many things - but a Pole will never be humble and self critical. They are towards their country, but never, ever to themselves.


Try living here, then you might understand what he's saying. But hey - you live in America, and think that some dumb bastards who wave sausages in the air while chanting 'busia' are somehow "Polish".


As I said - you've got no idea. You don't live here, you don't deal with the State, you have absolutely no idea.


As I said, you've got no idea. The mentality in Poland is *never* to accept responsibility for one's mistakes - it's just not done. People would rather tell outrageous lies than admit it - and it's a direct consequence of Communism. Again - you don't live here, don't work here - you've got no idea.


Worth pointing out that while Tusk, Kaczynski, et al were ex-Solidarity, most of them were more on the intellectual side than the worker side and abandoned Solidarity pretty quickly after they 'won'.

Delph, you are doing exactly this:


Come on, guys, everything depends on who you are dealing with. There are a lot of normal people in Poland who are able to admit wrong. I must say that recently I have been lucky to run into those normal ones in everyday matters - clerks, drivers, parents of my students.

That is why such ideas as this one seem crazy to me -


And that is why I agree with

To be fair, it's quite noticeable in Poland that people don't admit mistakes - but I think it works both ways, too.

Paul Grice wrote a wonderful theory about communication protocol, which he called his Maxims. It's worth looking at, since they're relevant here.

We make sweeping statements like "Poles are never wrong" because it's quicker and easier than saying "a significant number of Poles refuse to accept responsibility for their mistakes more frequently than one would expect." We presume the listener has enough intelligence to infer our meaning, since it would be foolish to make such a sweeping generalisation without meeting every single Pole.

So to demand absolutely accuracy from a statement, when only a fool would understand the original sentence literally to start with, really shows who is being silly here.

Argue with the sentiment, but don't argue with the semantics.

Its ridiculous to say that Polish Americans, Poles or any Polish diaspora would say "Poland is perfect". That's just another loaded anti-remark against Poles. SHOW ME where Polish Americans said "Poland is perfect"????. You just made that up.

God knows Poland isn't and I myself have said countless times that there is bad and good in Poland just like in any nation.

As for you saying that you think its a "national characteristic" that Poles don't want to take responsibility for anything, I find that to be a stretch......however I will let other Poles from Poland decide on that since I don't live in Poland.

But for arguments sake, lets say most Polish people don't like being blamed for anything or taking responsibility for anything (hard for me to believe since one Polish president after another is groveling on his knees begging for forgiveness from a certain ethnic group for perceived Polish injustices) maybe Poles in general have the "just fcuk it attitude" because whenever they were humble or self critical it was taken for granted. Poles were kind enough to let in all types of foreigners around 1790 only to see their country get ripped apart by them. Yeah no good deed goes unpunished.

Just look at this forum.

Every other topic on this forum is criticizing the hell out of Polish people and Poles are expected by non-Poles to ACCEPT all of it when these critics themselves wouldn't want to be subjected to such criticism.

Every other topic on this forum is

Why are Poles bad?

Why can't Poles take criticism?

Why do Poles hate this group?

Why do Poles hate that group?

Why are Poles so horrible?

Why do Poles beat their wives?

Why are Poles ugly?

Why do Poles smell?

Why are Poles dumb?

Why are Poles this?

Why are Poles that?

Why can't Poles do this?

Why can't Poles do that?

Its just attack after attack after attack on Polish people.

Just about every negative adjective or insinuation is used against Poles, even if the topic names themselves don't include the above negative descriptions I used.

Just about every other topic on this forum knocks the hell out of Polish people with one criticism after another and then you wonder why Poles "can't take criticism"?

What for?

You have one anti-Polish troll who is of Russian ancestry who takes tremendous delight attacking Polish people all the time, yet GOD FORBID you give him a taste of his own medicine/criticism of his Russians.

Frankly, I notice that many of the people of non-Polish ancestry on this forum (many non-Polish people pretend to be Poles here) accusing Polish people of not taking blame have a difficult time accepting blame for anything they say, do or think.

@ MediaWatch :


Dude I was not refering to anyone, I met many people who say even my GF talk a lot against them. She call them "Red Army with Polish blood". We discuss about this issue most of the time, and she never give up.

She is too young & I dont understand what made her think like that. I think her family discuss about this issue a lot.

Regarding report on the Smolensk crash, It could to be something to do with Jet failure which is common these days. But NO, polish media says it was a russian plane & plan to kill the president of poland. Media plays a major role in spreading false information. My friends, media is business now a days to increase their TRP.

Sorry if I hurt anyone through my post.

I don't bother with the excuses anymore, if I am involved in an accident, even minor, I phone the Police and my insurance company, the rule in PL, he/she who reports first is not the guilty party, let them pay the 500 PLN when the Police turn up.


About as accurate as it gets.

i said something similar in another thread, but of course internet warriors are blind to the obvious.

MW, it is glaringly obvious to those who have had dealings with administrative offices or workplaces here that they don't accept blame. It's sth that can be readily observed. Why do you think people are attacking Poland here, rather than observing? I have many good Polish friends who agree with me on this point.

I can give many examples so here's the first one:

I was waiting for the secretary to come and open the school. She had been told very clearly that she was to be there at 7.30am. For me, 7.40 would have been ok as I'd've had enough time to prepare my lessons. However, she came at 7.59 which was one minute before my lessons were due to start. The students were already waiting by then. I sped up a little bit but I wouldn't say I rushed to scramble the notes together. Still, I went quicker than normal for the sake of the students. I told my HOS/DOS about the sickening attitude of the secretary who really couldn't have cared less and didn't apologise. She told me bluntly that she didn't get paid for that time so why should she give a toss? I told my boss that she was in the wrong so she talked to her about it. The secretary tried to put the blame on me by saying that I didn't hurry up and couldn't see her position (I still can't, lol). I actually shouted at my HOS to do sth about it as I'm not one to accept rudeness and especially not those who try and pin things on me. The secretary was replaced but the next one did exactly the same. Fine, be slack but not when it affects the work of other people. A little respect!

I'll save my next story for later. For those that can't take these realities, can I remind them that I see some Poles as gems?! I drink with them and teach them. I have no axes to grind and I really like many here.

That, actually, is the scourge of modern Poland - "I'm not paid for it, so why should I do it?". And then they whine because they spend their lives in lowly jobs.

I know someone who has fired quite a lot of people for this attitude.

LOL

So you and others think Poland/Poles have a monopoly on that kind of thing?

You think that doesn't happen here in the US, or UK, Scotland, Australia or most other Western countries?

And forget about even talking about third world countries.

Spot on, delph. It is prevalent and that's just a fact. The pessimism which they carry with them is abominable. They blame their imagined illness for poor work performance. I have certain types in mind here. Most foreigners see this aspect of their culture too.

MW, you are like a broken record with your deflection tactics. We are talking about Poland, yes, Poland here. It's much more widespread here.

It's not trolling, it's just how it is!

Again - I think it's a disease of the working classes in Poland. Middle management/higher tend to be much more optimistic. Apart from language schools, that is ;)


I've always thought this is why the best-run companies in Poland are the ones that don't tolerate this. Look at the disaster that is Ciegelski, then compare it to the runaway success story of Solaris.

If your saying it in the spirit of constructive criticism that's one thing, but for somebody like Delphiadomine, who gets an adrenaline rush in criticizing the flaws of Poland, he's pointing it out just to bash Poland.

Remember Delphiadomine said that Polish people are subhumans (yes he used that word). Its just disturbing seeing some people like yourself agreeing with somebody who said Polish people are subhumans. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Also if its this bad in Poland, why do you live there? Why not go back to Scotland? Wouldn't you be happier there?

For the life of me, I never will understand why people who have a ton of criticisms for nation A CHOOSE to LIVE in nation A.

Its like people coming to the US to live here, only to complain about how they can't stand the US. Why don't they go back to where they came from?

I just don't get it.

Wrong. I said that PiS voting village idiots in Eastern Poland were subhuman racist scum.

Get it right, MediaWatch.