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Worked for a restaurant in Poland and the owner refused to pay me.


Acey K
21 Jul 2012  #1
So I got my carta pobytu then got a job. I worked at a "reputable" restaurant for 3 months, 15 hours a day one day off a week. Owner refused to pay me. Do I have any rights?
Harry
21 Jul 2012  #2
Yes you do have rights. But did you have a work permit to go with your karta pobytu? Did you need a work permit? On what basis did you get the karta pobytu?

Oh, and the centrum in which city?
OP Acey K
21 Jul 2012  #3
warsaw, im married for 10 years to a polish girl. she immigrated to u.s. ten years ago. the umaga he made me sign was for 1500 a month and the rest was supposed to be under the table.
4 eigner 2 | 831
21 Jul 2012  #4
the umaga he made me sign was for 1500 a month and the rest was supposed to be under the table.

I'm afraid, you're gonna get fooled , my friend
Acey K - | 8
21 Jul 2012  #5
I have all my docs for living and working. agreement was for 200 hours for x-amount of zloty, which was way to low to even begin with. 1500 by bank and "x" by cash. i had three meetings with the owner where we discussed payment. i am owed at this point 170 hours of pay. 78 from the month paid and 92 from the current month.
Warszawette - | 128
21 Jul 2012  #6
Hi!

To be paid some 50% under the table is very frequent in Poland and not only by restaurants (I've seen situation often even with "international" Polish private schools).

You have karta pobytu but this does not allow you to work if you are not a citizen of another UE country. If so, you also need a work permit issued to employer.

Even if you were employed legally, be informed that employees in Poland have no more than purely symbolic rights. I've seen even Poles completely ripped off, sometimes not paid and neither the PIP (Labor Inspection) nor the police (I've seen a case when the employer was a real crook and in most countries he would have had his company shut down) could do nothing. The Labor code was changed to please big Western corporations.

Please just do what Poles do in such a case, they quit and look for something else and they forget with time.

Sorry but this is an aspect of Polish life that foreigners should be ready to face as it happens often with small firms.
Acey K - | 8
21 Jul 2012  #7
i dun got fooled son. whats left to do? eat ****?
Wroclaw Boy
21 Jul 2012  #8
Sorry but this is an aspect of Polish life that foreigners should be ready to face as it happens often with small firms.

A Polish guy living in my house in the UK right now was not paid for 5 months by a large Warsaw based mineral company.
Acey K - | 8
21 Jul 2012  #9
i walked out as soon as i was not paid. i dont work for free. ive got 15 years in restaurants. and i could see this happening a mile away. the head chef gave me his word over and over that this would not happen. but it did.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Jul 2012  #10
the head chef gave me his word over and over that this would not happen

so what are you going to do about it?
Acey K - | 8
21 Jul 2012  #11
its my legia buddies that want to do something about it. karma will be returned tenfold. i didnt come to poland looking for work. just wanted to see the sights! and got a bit bored.
Warszawette - | 128
21 Jul 2012  #12
Sorry but probably there is nothing to be done as it happens very often in Poland.

If it were a big fortune, you could hire a lawyer. In your situation, a lawyer should cost you more than what boss owes you and there is no guarantee....

Sorry again but this is one aspect of Polish life and with time, you'll learn about what to do/not to do in this country.

I know 1,500 is a good sum of money and I'm sure that you have worked like a slave but this happens often in Poland and you have to know it.
Acey K - | 8
21 Jul 2012  #13
1500 is terrible money. it was 2500 for 200 hours which is still terrible for the level of experience required for the job. 4000 would have been decent pay for the position. but now i can make one of the best tar tar in warsaw, well thats acording to kasia figura anyway.
Warszawette - | 128
21 Jul 2012  #14
Wroclaw: It's even worse than I thought ;)

In fact, it's almost normal to be "f.."ed up by smaller bosses in Poland and it takes time to be able to beat the system.

It should be a warning to all those naive young westerners moving to Poland.

Even a written contract is often no more than toilet paper in Poland so UWAGA!
4 eigner 2 | 831
21 Jul 2012  #15
I know 1,500 is a good sum of money

is it? When I was in Poland, 1500 pln seemed like nott much at all.
jon357 63 | 14,122
21 Jul 2012  #16
If you have a proper contract 'Umowa o Pracy' you should be able to go to the Labour Court (Sąd Pracy). They a usually very quick and effective. If for some reason they really can't help you they'll tell you, however if you have a contract for 1500 and that contract is a legal one the employer has to be able to prove he paid that much via a bank transfer until the contract was ended.. For the part that was under the table, nobody can help you.
Warszawette - | 128
21 Jul 2012  #17
Acey: to me too, it's a lot of money but this is the reality in Poland. And you did all orally???? Even a written work contract is no guarantee in Poland (I've seen weird things) so how can you believe what your boss says orally??????

You have to forget about this money now....
Harry
21 Jul 2012  #18
warsaw, im married for 10 years to a polish girl. she immigrated to u.s. ten years ago. the umaga he made me sign was for 1500 a month and the rest was supposed to be under the table.

The good news is that as you're married to a Pole, you don't need a work permit, so you were working legally. However, you're shiit out of luck when it comes to legally collecting money which is not covered by contract. The best you can hope for is to make the owner's life difficult by reporting him to the Labour office (your working day was illegal), the tax office (report yourself for any under-the-table payments your received, they'll get the hint and start looking at how the owner is paying the rest of his staff) and Sanepid (a bunch of complete and utter bastards, just tell them a few fairly believable lies and they'll go do an inspection which is pretty much guaranteed to turn up code violations). Of course, you speak to the owner and demand payment before you do all that reporting.

BTW, any chance you can name the restaurant? Do it by private message if you prefer.
4 eigner 2 | 831
21 Jul 2012  #19
And you did all orally

I hope not (he;s a married man), LOL
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
21 Jul 2012  #20
You have karta pobytu but this does not allow you to work if you are not a citizen of another UE country. If so, you also need a work permit issued to employer.

Wrong. Those holding a Karta Pobytu through a family connection to an EU citizen do not require a work permit.

Even if you were employed legally, be informed that employees in Poland have no more than purely symbolic rights. I've seen even Poles completely ripped off, sometimes not paid and neither the PIP (Labor Inspection) nor the police (I've seen a case when the employer was a real crook and in most countries he would have had his company shut down) could do nothing. The Labor code was changed to please big Western corporations.

Are you kidding? Employment law is heavily in favour of the employee - *when* the paperwork is correct. Claiming that they have "symbolic rights" is rubbish - the courts are weighted around 90-10 in favour of employees. Have you actually read the Labour Code, or paid attention to the numerous judgements in the courts?

PIP nor the police have nothing to do with it - the legal system exists for a reason and there are established paths to dealing with employment problems.

Please just do what Poles do in such a case, they quit and look for something else and they forget with time.

No, what Poles do is deal with it within the legal system. As long as their documentation is all in order, of course.

agreement was for 200 hours for x-amount of zloty, which was way to low to even begin with.

Polish law operates on the basis of documentation. If you agreed an under the table deal, it's between you and him to sort out. Calling the boys in is always an option.

its my legia buddies that want to do something about it.

Always an option.

Sorry but probably there is nothing to be done as it happens very often in Poland.

There is plenty to be done, but he's as guilty as the restaurant owner for agreeing sharp practices.

I've never had an issue with payments in Poland. A few clowns tried late payments and were swiftly dealt with in accordance with Polish law. The e-court system in Lublin really is very useful. Of course, that requires full paperwork and no dodgy under-the-table agreements.
Acey K - | 8
21 Jul 2012  #21
thanks, pretty much what i thought. screwed! hahah..... my first job interview since then has been for 1000 more than what i was being paid. think im gonna take my time looking for work here.

flaming
Warszawette - | 128
21 Jul 2012  #22
Maybe I was not clear; what I meant is that: when NOT citizen of another UE country, a work permit is necessary

As to supposed rights to Polish employees, based upon my experience I seriously doubt it. Of course, employees may go to court and so what? I've seen a lot of people going first to PIP and nothing. As to the police it was about a case with the boss being a criminal (whose business would have been closed down in most civilized countries).

But never mind, if our friend here has accepted to be paid under the table, it's another matter. It's common in Poland to have some 50% na czarno.
Hipis - | 227
21 Jul 2012  #23
Name and shame the restaurant so we know not to go and eat there.
Warszawette - | 128
21 Jul 2012  #24
Sorry but 1,500 is a lot when we make let's say 2,000, 3,000 or 4,000 - the majority of people in Poland

Maybe 1,500 does not seem a fortune but it's hard to earn.
Harry
21 Jul 2012  #25
The one on Mokotowska? Place is a den of cunnts and an perfect example of what has gone wrong with Warsaw.
Acey K - | 8
21 Jul 2012  #26
hahah, im loving it!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
21 Jul 2012  #28
Maybe I was not clear; what I meant is that: when NOT citizen of another UE country, a work permit is necessary

You are absolutely wrong. A work permit is not required for those holding a Karta Pobytu by virtue of family connection to an EU citizen. It is required for other holders, of course.

As to supposed rights to Polish employees, based upon my experience I seriously doubt it. Of course, employees may go to court and so what? I've seen a lot of people going first to PIP and nothing. As to the police it was about a case with the boss being a criminal (whose business would have been closed down in most civilized countries).

PIP is not meant to resolve disputes like this - the legal system is. And once you've gone to court and obtained a favourable judgement, the process is very easy from then on.

As for the police - again - nothing to do with payment (civil) disputes.

It's common in Poland to have some 50% na czarno.

Common everywhere, not just in Poland, especially in service industries. I used to work in the UK for (officially) 5 pounds an hour. No mention was made of the 10% commission on entry fees.

Sorry but 1,500 is a lot when we make let's say 2,000, 3,000 or 4,000 - the majority of people in Poland

It's nothing in Warsaw.
Harry
21 Jul 2012  #29
Harry: can you give a hint?

Think flamingos on the sign, champagne and oysters on the menu and pretentious fucckwits as clientele. It's about 200 metres from the American embassy.
Wroclaw Boy
21 Jul 2012  #30
It's about 200 metres from the American embassy.

I bet its really loud in there


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