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Child support in Poland:is the income of the father's spouse taken into account?


"stepmom"
3 Feb 2010  #1
My situation is as follows: my husband has a child from a previous relationship with a Polish woman. We recently got married, I make more money than my husband. The mother of the child wants more money as child support and threatens to sue – does she have a case? Can she dip into my pockets, too, or will the support be based on what the father of the child earns?
Harry
3 Feb 2010  #2
Where do you live?
OP "stepmom"
3 Feb 2010  #3
Outside of Poland but in Europe. Apparently due to some EU-agreements or the like she would sue us according to Polish law, since she and the child live in Poland. Does it make a difference?
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
3 Feb 2010  #4
Second wives frequently have this problem. You might want to invest some time with these people: alimonyreform2ndwives.blogspot.com
Harry
3 Feb 2010  #5
My initial reaction would be that she can not but this really is not my area and frankly the best thing you can do is speak to a lawyer. Better yet, speak to two: one in Poland and one where you are.

Worst case scenario: you get divorced and tell his first ex-wife to go f*ck herself.
Exiled 2 | 425
4 Feb 2010  #6
Most polish divorced wives get too few financial support.I know one or two things in this case.
OP "stepmom"
4 Feb 2010  #7
Thank you for your answers! I'll try to ask a lawyer or too.
They were not married, so it's not a question of support to an ex-wife, only to the child.

Does anybody know what is the average child support/month in Poland now?
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
4 Feb 2010  #8
I hope this father didn't abandoned his child, then you'll get a tough time in the Polish court.

There are too many scumbags around, hope he's not one of them.
OP "stepmom"
5 Feb 2010  #9
The child is fine. The mother wanted to move back to Poland when they broke up, my husband wanted to stay in his country so now he doesn't get to see the child much but stays in touch over the phone and visits as often as he can.

All I'm asking about is if the mother of the child has a right to ask for a higher child support based on MY income (not related to the child, am married to the child's father). My second question was to determine if the new amount she wants is reasonable. At the moment she gets 400PLN because the father himself has a very low salary. Now she reckons we should pay 2000PLN because my salary is high. What is normal for Poland? For me 2000PLN sounds very high.
Honest George 1 | 105
5 Feb 2010  #10
For me 2000PLN sounds very high

You just can not imagine what you read on here anymore. Sounds high to me also.

Child support is based on accessible income, in other words, what is left from your husbands income after mandatory bills are paid.

eg: So if you show proof that he pays half the rent, and its not you alone that pays it, then obviously there is less left in his accessible income.

Thats the English CSA regulations anyway. Updated information can be sourced at csa.gov.uk
Harry
5 Feb 2010  #11
PLN 2000 does sound quite high but it will depend on a lot of factors. And to be frank, PLN 400 is a bit of a p!sstake: it's nowhere near enough to raise a child on.

Frankly you have two choices right now: the first choice (and the one I would try first) is for your husband offer her an extra PLN 50 a month in exchange for her signing a statement that she will never use the fact that he has got married as justification for claiming increased child support. If she accepts, great (although the statement may have little legal bearing). If she doesn't, tell her that it is a one-time offer and if she refuses, you'll spend as much money as you need to on lawyers to make sure that she doesn't get her gold-digging hands on a single penny of your money. The second choice is to speak to a lawyer. This really isn't my area and I know nothing at all about the European dimension here, but I would imagine that even if she does have any claim there are ways in which you could minimise or even eliminate it. As I said above, you can always just get divorced.
pantsless 1 | 267
5 Feb 2010  #12
Now she reckons we should pay 2000PLN because my salary is high.

2000zl isnt high, its stratospherically high, but 400zl is quite low. Ie, Im guessing she doesnt want to work anymore (if she even does) and hopes she can freeload off your salary.
OP "stepmom"
5 Feb 2010  #13
Thank you for your comments. I guess we'll talk to a lawyer and try to negotiate with her to avoid going to court and wasting everybody's time and money. 400PLN is not much, yes, but at the moment my husband is only working a temporary job part-time as he's still studying, so it's what he can afford to pay. Anything more will come from my salary and I'm not too keen on supporting a child that is not mine, even if it is my husband's.
Harry
5 Feb 2010  #14
You may well find that a Polish family court will just tell him to get a full-time job and study only part-time. And then calculate the amount he should pay based on what he could earn if he worked full-time. That can happen and it does happen.
OP "stepmom"
5 Feb 2010  #15
How about the mother? She's also not working at the moment. Can the court tell her that she needs to get a job?
Harry
5 Feb 2010  #16
Sadly not: how she finds her half of the cost of bringing up the child is of no interest to the court.
OP "stepmom"
5 Feb 2010  #17
Ok that's helpful, at least she cannot claim that he needs to pay more than half because she's not working then?
Harry
5 Feb 2010  #18
As a general rule not but it would depend. If she could show a good reason why she isn't working (child has special needs, it's impossible for her to arrange child care, she's disabled, etc), the court might decide that he should pay more. But if she'd just bone idle and can't be arsed to work while the kid's at school and expects to sponge off him, she'll most likely be told to get off her backside.

But really, you should speak to a lawyer who specialises in this stuff. Where in Poland is she going to be making her claim?
OP "stepmom"
5 Feb 2010  #19
Sze lives in Warsaw, so would think she'll make the claim there.

She was studying, so that was a good reason for her to not work I guess. But she graduated over a year ago, the kid is in daycare but she's not working. I don't know exactly why, I don't like to meddle in other people's business unless they have direct consequences for me... which looks like it might be the case now. The child is perfectly normal, no special needs, and neither the kid nor the mother are in any way disabled.

You're right we're already looking for a lawyer, there's only so much info you can get from a discussion board and we'll never know what is correct until we speak to a professional. Sounds like she may have a case to ask for some more money, but not that 2000 PLN.
OP "stepmom"
17 Mar 2010  #20
Well the judgement came through. 2000 PLN to start with, raising to 3200 PLN as the child grows. No, this is not a joke!

Please help. Does anyone know where to get some official documents about what are reasonable expenses for raising a child in Poland, what the normal levels of child support are etc?

We are not millionaires. I make decent money but if my husband needs to pay this much that means he pays 40-85% of his net income for the child.
convex 20 | 3,978
17 Mar 2010  #21
Well the judgement came through. 2000 PLN to start with, raising to 3200 PLN as the child grows. No, this is not a joke!

Fire your lawyer.

Hard to be sympathetic though. So a lesson for all you kids out there, before you decide to spawn, know what you're getting in to.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
17 Mar 2010  #22
The problem is that the Polish legal system is quite frankly a mess - what is *right* often has no bearing on judgements.

In the first instance, you really do need to contact a lawyer - the amounts are way, way too high for the Polish cost of living. I'd actually be inclined to say that if you didn't retain a lawyer, then that explains why the court has awarded such a ridiculous amount. If you already did retain a lawyer, then as convex says - fire them.

The other reason that you need to contact a lawyer is to find out the implications of simply ignoring the court order.
OP "stepmom"
17 Mar 2010  #23
To convex: Everyone knows you have to pay child support. This is about how much is reasonable. And you can hardly argue everyone should know that if you have a child with a Polish woman, the screwed up laws may condemn you to pay much more than can be deemed reasonable.

The lawyer we had has been fired. We'll find a better one and appeal.

Meanwhile was hoping maybe someone here would know some sources of info. Facts, as opinions count nothing in court.
Harry
17 Mar 2010  #24
I don't have any official figures and I have no knowledge of decisions in Warsaw but up in northern Poland about 500 PLN is the normal amount. However, in Warsaw you're looking at 1400zl to rent an apartment anywhere but up there you can get places for 500zl, so that is going to add a few hundred to the support.

You need to speak to a lawyer here who specialises in family law. I know a very good one in Warsaw but she's rather expensive. I'm not going to post her contact details here so you'll have to register and then send me a private message.

If this recalculation was made on the basis of your husband's new income now that he has married you, the obvious thing would be for the two of you to get a quicky divorce, for him to then apply for the support to be reduced to its original level and then for him to contact his ex to inquire what it'll take for her to agree that your income will never be included in any support assessment so that you can remarry.
convex 20 | 3,978
17 Mar 2010  #25
And you can hardly argue everyone should know that if you have a child with a Polish woman, the screwed up laws may condemn you to pay much more than can be deemed reasonable.

Your definition of reasonable differs to that of someone else. Reasonable seems to be very subjective. 40% of disposable income sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Would he be paying more if the child was in his country? I think you can probably remove the "with a Polish woman" part of that sentence. Children are expensive, and there are already too many of them in the world. Lets just hope that it doesn't become a basket case due to the failed marriage and messed up mother. Much better his money than mine.

Good luck anyway.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
17 Mar 2010  #26
600-1000zl is normal in Poznan from what I know, but this is just anecdotal evidence.

I'm not going to post her contact details here so you'll have to register and then send me a private message.

Does she speak English? If so, I wouldn't mind a recommendation for someone who can get the job done in terms of family law.
Harry
17 Mar 2010  #27
I don't know. But somebody I know will soon be visiting her and I'll make sure that they find out.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
17 Mar 2010  #28
Well the judgement came through. 2000 PLN to start with, raising to 3200 PLN as the child grows. No, this is not a joke!

I would say 800-1000 PLN would be a fair amount, 2000 is definately too much... 3200 is much more than average national salary and I think about the average salary in Warsaw...
Kiltmaker 3 | 20
23 Feb 2011  #29
So, how did it work out last year?
Lukasz K - | 103
23 Feb 2011  #30
You all miss the point.
The child support in Poland is not based on the costs of living but on the income of the parent so collecting info about the rent etc. is worthless.

If a father earns 1000 PLN then he would pay let's say 400 and if he earns 10000 then he would pay 4000. The assumption is that the material status of the child can not diminish after divorce so if the child was used to live at high standard it can not suffer just becouse parents got divorced...

I think it is far from the child's point of viev.
You qall present more "egalitarian" way of thinking - "lets assume that 2000 PLN is enought to live decent and give him that regardless his parent is a plumber or member of the board of the international corporation" which is not followed by

Polish courts.

Regards

Lukasz


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