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Why don't you always pronounce the last ę as "eom"


H2N2
17 Nov 2019 #1
Hi, it's me again.
Yes, you don't know me. That's because my previous credentials are not recognized by this server anymore, as it seems.
No problem, it's H2N, as if you care....
Jestem w Rumunii, ale teraz chcę zapytać cię coś.... if that's correct...

...Why the last "ę" isn't everytime pronounced like the classical english "eom", but it's the obvious "e" letter?.

For example i encountered every instance of "proszę" or "dziękuję" without the last "e" being pronounced this way, except "się" - which occasionally is pronounced the way i expect it, and other times with the polish "ę". But i dont know anymore when i'm truly wrong or when i'm just following a pattern. It's the way i expect it, but more difficult since you don't give me an "alternative"....

I love polish since i was born, i love polish people, and the sweetest people i've ever encountered are the Poles, but those dificulties drive me crazy.... Please, don't leave me right now. You're my friends forever. Thank you!
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
17 Nov 2019 #2
In my experience, native Poles talking to one another invariably pronounce that particular sound as almost an 'uh-', or schwa-sound!
Of course, in emphasizing the pronunciation, say a teacher or the like, then the nasal is completely audible. This though would probably stand out some in normal conversation and sound unnecessarily forced:-)
mafketis 23 | 7,829
18 Nov 2019 #3
...Why the last "ę" isn't everytime pronounced like the classical english "eom", but it's the obvious "e" letter?.

Short answer: Why should it be pronounced like the "classical english 'eom'" (whatever that is) Polish is a separate language and evolves in its own way.

At present most people most of the time pronounced word final -ę exactly like -e

other variants:

like final -e but followed by a short nasal u sound (like final -eł but with the ł nasalizaed: this is mostly restricted to się (when sort of stressed) and maybe dziękuję, doing this in everyday normal speech very much makes you sound like a retired classics professor

e with a bit of nasalization at the end (a bit like French -in but not as strong) what many people do occasionally

like -em (considered sub-standard)

most style guides (for Poles) say using one pronunciation all the time is not good, never nasalizing final -ę sounds too informal and nasalizing all of them sounds far too formal. the recommendation is to pronounce some like -ę and others like -ę (which words are pronounced which way is left to the discretion of the speaker).

IME (when asking people) some cases of word final -ę are more likely to be pronounced like -ę than others, maybe especially when otherwise the third person form would sound the same (piszę vs pisze for example)

pronounce that particular sound as almost an 'uh-', or schwa-sound!

I think maybe that's Silesian? I remember a show with Silesian characters who pronounced both final -ę and final -em (as a first person marker) something like uh, I don't know if there's an accepted way to write that...
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
18 Nov 2019 #4
Very possibly, Maf, you're probably right.

I should add, of course, that the "a"-sound with "kreska" in any position of the word is always pronounced as a nasal! Never yet heard any exception to this in

standard Polish, anyway. Again, perhaps in dialect:-)


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