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Have you ever heard 'destynacja'?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
12 Aug 2012 #1
I heard someone saying on Polish TV that when you take small kids along on holiday you should 'wybrać destynację, która je zainteresuje'. Do you like this type of linguistic creativity? Is it enriching the Polish language or bastardising it? What is the motivation, in your view, of most 'enrichers' or 'bastardisers' (as you prefer)? Trying to be cute, trendy, funny, impressing others with their alleged fluencey in English, a ltitle of all or something else? In the American Polonia you hear a lot of this: Jasio ma w niedzielę graduację.
Szlachcic - | 36
12 Aug 2012 #2
bastardising it

100%

Trying to be cute, trendy,

trend, I suppose.

although it sounds downright RIDICULOUS!!

I really really hate when they talk like that!!

none of my relatives do, thankfully, since most of them - even the young ones - never learned English. THANK GOD!

I also prefer to use words like podarunek, zamiast prezent. :-)
teflcat 5 | 1,032
12 Aug 2012 #3
most of them - even the young ones - never learned English. THANK GOD!

Why on earth are you pleased that your relatives do not have a modern education?
Szlachcic - | 36
12 Aug 2012 #4
and WHY NOT?!

they live in small villages, where culture and families are #1 priority.

I envy yet cherish them for this!
Ironside 51 | 11,338
12 Aug 2012 #5
Never heard it and I don't like it.
I think that it is used by the same people whose everyday language is poor, intertwined with vulgarism and swearwords, In fact those who do not know proper Polish language. When they try to sound classy and learned they come up with such unfortunate and redundant vocabulary. Alas they are surrounded by unfortunates not unlike themselves and their vocabularian fallacy is met more often than not by uncritical acceptance.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
12 Aug 2012 #6
Do you like this type of linguistic creativity?

Polonius3 this is a pet peve of mine. Many here will attribute this to the normal "fluidity" of a language to grow and expand.

In Polish's case I think it's a gross exaggeration and it annoys me to no end.
Szlachcic - | 36
12 Aug 2012 #7
I think that it is used by the same people whose everyday language is poor, intertwined with vulgarism and swearwords, In fact those who do not know proper Polish language.

bingo!
NorthMancPolak 4 | 648
12 Aug 2012 #8
You should have used my thread from five years ago :p Being a backward monolingual villager is hardly something to aspire to, especially as being monolingual places you in a minority, in global terms. We use a few of these words over here. However, unlike the uneducated villager, or the "proud Pol-Am" who has never been to Poland, we know when correct Polish should be used. I never use the "K-word", though.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,381
12 Aug 2012 #9
I think that it is used by the same people whose everyday language is poor, intertwined with vulgarism and swearwords, In fact those who do not know proper Polish language.

Although this opinion may sound convincing, it is not true. The word "destynacja" has been in use for some years now, its source in Polish being the professional people from the travel industry who, finding it handy to use it in their everyday business language, started to employ it in TV studios when invited to talk about "travel destinations" in breakfast TV programmes. As such, the word was readily picked up by the dumb personallities of breakfast TV for whom it seemed perfect to start showing off. However, I've never heard it in the lips of someone "whose language is poor and intertwined with vulgarisms and swearwords" and I would never expect it to be used by them in the foreseeable future. When used, "destynacja" reveals someone who is educated, and at the same time someone who wants to sound "posh", though they may sound silly.

As a specialized professional word of limited use, the word "destynacja" does seem OK for me as it may better serve to describe travel industry realities than the Polish word "cel podrózy" which in fact may not only point to the actual physical destination, but also to other activities of the industry's customer.
grubas 12 | 1,390
12 Aug 2012 #10
When used, "destynacja" reveals someone who is educated,

Maybe I am old school but to me it reveals someone who is quasi educated.
Zibi - | 336
12 Aug 2012 #11
It's a perfectly normal word. Can't say it is used widely, but certainly denotes a bit of sophistication when applied.
boletus 30 | 1,366
12 Aug 2012 #12
The word "destynacja" has been in use for some years now

I absolutely agree; it has been in usage for eons, as far back as I can remember. Perhaps this fragment from "Poradnia językowa" explains it well (my translation with some abbreviations):

The word "destynacja" - as used in today's tourism related texts, meaning "miejsce przeznaczenia", "cel podróży" was already defined in "Słownik języka polskiego PAN" (Dictionary of Polish Language by Polish Academy of Sciences) edited by W. Doroszewski, published in 1958-1962. It included many older, outdated words. The noun "destynacja" was one of these and it meant "destiny" form Latin "destinatio" - fate, order.

Doroszewski's Dictionary gives the following example of use of that term contained in the eighteenth-century letter written by Stanisław Trembecki:
"Gdyby na koniec podobało się WKMci te pokorne prośby moje odrzucić, wszelako ja wedługpierwszej destynacji i do wód, i dalej się puszczę, choćbym miał z brudnym służącym we dwóch na jednym koniu tę odprawić podróż."

Futher, the following quotations were given in relation to the verb "destynować":
Joachim Lelevel: "W trzech pokojach trzy stoliki z bostonem, jeden pokój destynowany dla młodzieży"
A. Naruszewicz: "Dwaj młodsi bracia [...] destynowani byli do stanu duchownego."

That dictionary also notes the noun "destynator", being generally an indication of a person to whom something is intended to, and specifically - a recipient of goods designated by a sender.

Before that the noun "destynacja" was mentioned in "Słownik języka polskiego" edited by J. Karłowicz, A. Kryński an W. Niedźwiedzki (a.k.a. Słownik warszawski), year 1900. In those days the word was considered to be little used, although the dictionary has several genetically related forms, such as "destynowanie, destynować, destynator".

The very word "destynacja" was shown with a quote from Tadeusz Kosciuszko: "Armaty, jeśli te są, które mają destynacjądo Grodna, niech idą jak najspieszniej", and from there the reader was pointed to the noun "destynowanie", and from there in turn to the verb "destynować" - to allocate, to designate: "Był to znak woli i Opatrzności boskiej, że mnie destynowała na wielkie rzeczy. Nikt do tej pracy nie chciał być destynowanym."

The noun "destynacja", like many other foreign words, has been now borrowed again to the Polish language - this time from English.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
12 Aug 2012 #13
Although this opinion may sound convincing, it is not true. The word "destynacja" has been in use for some years now

So what it has been used for years, it doesn't make it right.

I've never heard it in the lips of someone "whose language is poor and intertwined with vulgarisms and swearwords

I would say that particular issue is debatable. What for me is poor and intertwined with vulgarisms and swearwords for you may sound normal or even sophisticated.

It's a perfectly normal word. Can't say it is used widely, but certainly denotes a bit of sophistication when applied.

I'm sure it does for someone with the word "spoko" in his profile.

The word "destynacja"

The word was used in the Old Polish and its meaning and usage was different than its English transcription into Polish today.

So any connotation between the Old Polish and the modern Polish language is only and purely accidental.
Anybody using that word in the Polish language today must remember it make him/her sounds funny, pompous and windy.
boletus 30 | 1,366
12 Aug 2012 #14
What for me is poor and intertwined with vulgarisms and swearwords for you may sound normal or even sophisticated.

Funny, coming from a man with the foulest mouth in this forum. :-)

I fail to see any correlation between vulgarism and mannerism. All you can say is to follow J.Miodek, who recognized this as mannerism ("Słowo jest w człowieku", Wrocław 2007, s. 28): "The use of this word offends some people, but you can not expect that it will be removed from Polish language: unfortunately, some content can be expressed more briefly with its help, so it seems to be functional".

Or, and I forgot to add this:

The word was used in the Old Polish

The Old Polish language spanned the 9th to 16th centuries. See
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Polish_language
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C4%99zyk_staropolski
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powstanie_i_rozw%C3%B3j_j%C4%99zyka_polskiego

The quotes in #12 came from A. Naruszewicz(1733-1796), Stanisław Trembecki(1739-1812), Joachim Lelewel(1786-1861) and Tadeusz Kościuszko(1746-1817), so you can hardly refer to them as Old Polish.

its meaning and usage was different than its English transcription into Polish today.
So any connotation between the Old Polish and the modern Polish language is only and purely accidental.

Oh, really?
Kościuszko: "Armaty, jeśli te są, które mają destynacją do Grodna" (Cannons, if there are such, which are destined to Grodno)

Modern equivalent: "Armaty, jeśli takie są, których miejscem przeznaczenia jest Grodno" (Cannons, if there are such, whose place of destination is Grodno)

Tourist add: Cancun to jedna z najlepszych na świecie destynacji. Caucun jest jednym z najlepszych na świecie celów podróży. (Cancun is one the best world destinations)

The other meaning of "destynacja" - fate, destiny, predestination; as mentioned in #12, are better served by the words "predestynacja", "fatum", "los", or "dola".
Ziemowit 14 | 4,381
12 Aug 2012 #15
Funny, coming from a man with the foulest mouth in this forum. :-)

Yes, the man is becoming more funny than ever before (not to mention he already became "sophisticated" in his own pecular way long time ago).
Ironside 51 | 11,338
12 Aug 2012 #16
Funny, coming from a man with the foulest mouth in this forum. :-)

OK I don't like you too. The only difference between us is that I can admit it openly and you are looking for some excuses and making bogus claims.

Oh, really?

Really!

All you can say is to follow J.Miodek

I contrary to you feel not need to "follow" and I can reach conclusion on my own. Anyway it seems to me that what Miodek really say is "since they are using it, let it be."

The bottom line is that you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
For you such word indicate sophistication and education and for me insecure and insincere plebs with education but without real culture and cultivation but striving to appear as such - in fact a poseur.

Yes, the man is becoming more funny than ever before (not to mention he already became "sophisticated" in his own pecular way long time ago).

AH? Anther highbrow. If I'm so funny and so beneath you - what do you care? Especially the thread is only about usage of some odd word! As I said insecure people.

What is your cyðan Ziemko? To tell me that you onscunian me? I don't care, honest:)
boletus 30 | 1,366
13 Aug 2012 #17
The bottom line is that you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

That's OK. You just cannot talk facts, you want to talk propaganda - even in the subjects as neutral as a grammar. Then I have to tell to anyone listening here - you have no essence, you are just an empty fuzz-ball.

I have been waiting for any sort of political declaration on your part - a program of some sort, maybe? And all I hear from you is this:

For you such word indicate sophistication and education and for me insecure and insincere plebs with education but without real culture and cultivation but striving to appear as such - in fact a poseur.

OK, funny little man. Zero value, a lot of nothingness. Sorry, I am not interested in following whatever you spit her, unless you redo it first to make it understandable and logical. So far this is an angry garbage.
Zibi - | 336
13 Aug 2012 #18
I concur with Boletus. As to Ironside.... płetwy opadają! :-(
Ironside 51 | 11,338
13 Aug 2012 #19
That's OK. You just cannot talk facts, you want to talk propaganda - even in the subjects as neutral as a grammar.

What are you even talking about? That issue is not a grammatical issue.
It is about usage of the word in the Polish language, You posted link in which named use of the word "destination" in the Polish language - mannerism.

Mannerism - Exaggerated or affected style or habit, as in dress or speech
I call people who use that word by their name - poseurs!
Problem?
Everybody is entitled to his opinion, yet you cannot somehow grasp it.
You are unable to agree to disagree. Fine with I, but don't make it sound as if it was mine fault.
The fault is entirely yours, it must be karma, some people are always wrong.

I have been waiting for any sort of political declaration on your part - a program of some sort, maybe?

Are you sure that you are in the right thread?

So far this is an angry garbage.

Angry - no! I'm Sharing!

OK, funny little man.

Sorry I didn't mean to hurt your feeling! OK! I'm lying - I don't care one way or the other.

płetwy opadają! :-(

Hey sorry! I took you for a human being as for a maritime mammal you are doing great!


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