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The Future of Polish Language


Lyzko
3 Nov 2010 #31
I agree, Dariusz.
Lyzko
3 Nov 2010 #32
Any lingua franca will run the risk of becoming a sort of world property which everyone thinks belongs to them, to use (and abuse) as they see fit!
rychlik 41 | 373
3 Nov 2010 #33
Therefore, Polish indeed has a future, a long and healthy one no doubt-:)

I don't know about that. There's this Polish b'itch in my house who's been studying abroad for 2 years only and refuses to speak Polish to me. Says it's easier to speak in English. Can you believe this s'hit? She speaks great in English so it's not like she needs to practice. But I feel like I need to practice my Polish. Do you see my problem? Gonna have to slap that b'itch sometime. Knock some sense into her.
Lyzko
4 Nov 2010 #34
Any foreigner who flatly insists on speaking English (and who probably speaks it poorly!) because it's "easier" for them, is either lying or just plain dumb, period! That's one of the greater PR acts of the age; don't believe this young lady for a second. Moreover, if you tried to politely correct her English, she'd most likely become rather nasty, am I right??

They only make themselves look foolish, Rychlik-:))
Lyzko
6 Nov 2010 #35
Even I, English curmudgeon that I am, have on occasion been most pleasantly surprised by the English level of some foreigners, albeit few and far between. One young man from Austria claimed to be an 'Anglistik und Amerikanistik' major at the University of Vienna. I figured the usual prior to our meeting, that he'd have the arrogant attitude and atrocious accent typical of the Austrians, and yet upon our first encounter was practically bowled over by his near perfect and natural Mid-Western US diction and native-speaker phraseology! I even mentioned the 'Mikado' (just to test him LOL) and he knew the Mikado's song verbatim, even better than I did. I was stunned and told him so. He merely smiled sheepishly and reiterated how he had always felt rather chagrined abroad by the low English level of his compatriots.

Yes, there's hope yet-:)
Teffle 22 | 1,321
6 Nov 2010 #36
I even mentioned the 'Mikado'

The standard test to determine linguistic aptitude, obviously...

: )
Paulina 13 | 3,488
6 Nov 2010 #37
There's this Polish b'itch in my house who's been studying abroad for 2 years only and refuses to speak Polish to me. Says it's easier to speak in English. Can you believe this s'hit?

Actually I can't believe she even speaks to you at all considering how you call her. Do you call her like that also in front of her or just behind her back?

"Says it's easier to speak in English. Can you believe this s'hit?"

Well, if you try to speak to her in Polish and your Polish sucks then it may be easier for her when you speak in English. Or if you speak in English and expect her to answer you in Polish it's also not so easy for the brain to switch from one language to another.

Do you see my problem?

Yes, you have a problem.

Gonna have to slap that b'itch sometime. Knock some sense into her.

Slap yourself.

Who's that woman, anyway? Your housemaid?
Lyzko
6 Nov 2010 #38
Amen, amen sister Paulina!!!! RIGHT ON. I too surely wouldn't advocate such actions in this scenario. I merely pity those who belittle others from speaking the former's native tongue under the misguided illusion their English is "better" and the other person's attempts s**ck.

Violence isn't the answer, rather example-:)))

"Our great Mikado virtuous man,
When he to rule our land began,
Devised to try a plan whereby,
Young men might best be stedied.

So he decreed in words succinct,
That thosewho flirted, leered or winked,
(unless connubially linked),
Would forthwith be beheaded.

This stern decree you'll understand,
Caused great dismay throughtout the land,
Where young and old, both shy and bold,
Were equally affected....."

Teffle, if that's not yardstick for English, I simply don't know what is!
Paulina 13 | 3,488
6 Nov 2010 #39
I merely pity those who belittle others from speaking the former's native tongue under the misguided illusion their English is "better" and the other person's attempts s**ck.

Sometimes it isn't a "misguided illusion" :) What then?
When someone's Polish/English/any other language is really basic (or even less than basic) or the pronunciation makes what the person says unintelligible it can be a real pain to communicate. At first you may smile and nod politely but on an everyday basis it could be irritating, I suspect :)
Lyzko
6 Nov 2010 #40
Fine, then only please equal justice and allow the other to correct the foreigner speakers' English errors (in a nice way)!
Paulina 13 | 3,488
6 Nov 2010 #41
Actually, I don't only allow it but I really appreciate when someone corrects my mistakes (in a nice or neutral way) :) It's always a way to learn, after all.
Lyzko
6 Nov 2010 #42
Paulina friend, you're really one in a million! Kudos and keep up the good thinking! Only wish more had your spirit.-)))

By the way, Teffle, even the English I'm told no longer know (or care) who Gilbert & Sullivan were. What a pity! It seems European culture is wasted on the Europeans, eh?
mafketis 34 | 12,194
6 Nov 2010 #43
Western European culture (in an artistic sense) has not yet recovered from WWII. Bits of brilliance here and there but hardly anything like a sustained tradition especially in those art forms their culture produced and created. How many young Italians are into opera? A five hundred year tradition dead and buried in a generation and only kept alive by non-Italians.

Most young western Europeans are profoundly alienated from their own cultures (broadly defined) and this is never a good thing. Central and Eastern European (including Polish) youth are less alienated from their cultures after WWII (oddly enough) but the alienation from the collapse of communism and the CCCP is starting to catch up with them.
Lyzko
7 Nov 2010 #44
'Most young Europeans are profoudnly alienated from their own culture....'

You're telling me!!! It used to be that we New Worlders made pilgrimages to you Old Worlders in order to savor the stuff sooooo so lacking across the board here in the good ol' USA: culture (if not necessarily enlightenment), conversation and intellect.

Now, going over there might as well be the same, practically, as staying home (along with the high prices, broken English and over-technologization).

Is there no longer any escape??
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,441
7 Nov 2010 #45
It seems European culture is wasted on the Europeans, eh?

well, at least it is not being wasted on Americans
Lyzko
7 Nov 2010 #46
No dobrze, Aphrodisiac! Jesteś mądra dzisiaj. Ale właszcznie co dokładnie wiesz o Ameryce i kultury ameriykańskiej?? Co to znaczy po polsku ".....being wasted on the Americans"? Jest twoim zdaniem że Amerykany nie ma właszczą kulturę jak Polacy, Niemcy itd.? Nie zrozumiem twojego zdania a uprzejmie poproszę o objaśieniu!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
7 Nov 2010 #47
Polish should be around for some time to come, although admittedly it will probably absorb a lot more English vocabulary, syntax and idioms. But it will still be Polish. Those countries that already now have a good command of English and not too many native speakers of their own language (eg Holland, the Scandinavian countries, etc.) could see their native tongues become extinct far sooner. My impression is that countries with a poorer command of English (France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Ukraine, Romania and others) may see their native languages survive longer than the smaller above-mentioned Germanic countries. Although Germany has a good command of English, its sheer size amy guarantee German a longer longevity. Whether we are talking one or more centuries - remains to be seen. Who knows - maybe our great grandchildren will all end up speaking obligatory Mandarin?!
Lyzko
8 Nov 2010 #48
An interesting point there, Polonius. However, I'd be most intrigued by what Dutch and 'pan-Scandinavian' (samnordisk) morph into someday, woudn't you? Yes, like many Germans, Netherlanders and Nordics DO seem to know English, at least superficallly, with greater fluency than the rest of the non- native English-speaking world. Yet, they too manke numerous errors in syntax and usage, even while their pronunciation is enviable compared to Poles or Russians, for example.

No, I'll say once again; Europe's native languages (exluding the "minority tongues" such as Sorbian or Basque, etc....!!) have a healthy survival rate, certainly until the end of the next centenium-:))
Lyzko
10 Nov 2010 #49
Merely an addendum. There were those who thought after WW II that Poland would fall into the hands of the former Soviet Union and that even the Polish language would be be subsumed forever by Russian. Others still thought following Hitler's victory over Europe, the whole continent would be speaking German and that other languages would simply fade away slowly or jusy die off from attrition.

Obviously, both theories turned out thankfully to be dead wrong! The same applies to the present thread. Paraphrasing Mark Twain (AGAIN!!!) " Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated!"
Crow 157 | 10,838
10 Nov 2010 #50
something like this >>> all Europe would speak Polish and even ask for more >>>

youtube.com/watch?v=Vtvn-FFsPXI
youtube.com/watch?v=VIvr1eF2TtA
almer 1 | 9
11 Nov 2010 #51
hey is it hard to learn? i wanna learn polish but it s like complicated i think :( what is the best way to learn it?
nott 3 | 594
11 Nov 2010 #52
Reincarnate in Poland.

Seriously, it's a difficult language for non-Slavs. Why do you want to learn it?
Lyzko
12 Nov 2010 #53
...as is English an exceedingly difficult language for non-Anglos-:)) It really cuts both ways.
LOL
nott 3 | 594
12 Nov 2010 #54
...as is English an exceedingly difficult language for non-Anglos-:)

Incomparable. English is easy to start and to proceed to quite a high level, and typical foreigners' errors are about nuances, rather. Polish has a very steep threshold at the very start. There's no such thing as 'Basic Polish', simply can't be.
mafketis 34 | 12,194
12 Nov 2010 #55
typical foreigners' errors are about nuances, rather

Not really true IME.

English is easy to start but very hard to get to a really advanced level. It starts easy and keeps getting harder.

Polish starts really hard, then gets harder and then starts getting easier.

And you can become functional in Polish (living in Poland) in no more than a year, probably a good deal. You'll often sound awful but people will understand you and mostly be polite about your efforts.

What many English learners never realize is just how off they sound to native speakers (who are mostly too polite to say anything).
nott 3 | 594
12 Nov 2010 #56
Polish starts really hard, then gets harder and then starts getting easier.

Something like that, yeah.

What many English learners never realize is just how off they sound to native speakers

I would agree with that too. I remember my shame after recollecting some of my errors after having mastered the proper usage.

Still, the high level is commonly very difficult for strangers to any language, I'd say. As goes for decent grammar, though, English is rather easy, even including tenses and conditionals.

I am a native Polish speaker, but I can easily cope with explaining most of the grammatical issues of English. Here I encountered simple questions 'why are you saying this like that in Polish', and I struggled. And then somebody posted full set of relevant grammatical rules, and I said to myself 'fck that, I am not going to learn all this!'. And the questions were, well, basic.
Natasa 1 | 580
12 Nov 2010 #57
The future of all languages besides English is in their past :D

Now, for Crow, Štrand i Srpski jezik

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7aCvfdNDE0M
Lyzko
12 Nov 2010 #58
Nott & others,

My analogy is quite comparable, if only because supposed 'fluent English speakers' out there in la-la land are often propelled by overweening self-confidence rather than any actual skill level, interest in, love for or knowledge of the English language (save for the f-curse etc.)

Subtleties? PUHleeez!! It's those very subtleties in our language which you seem to poo-poo that constitute the fibre and texture of what makes English English, NOT POGLISH, GERMLISH or one of the other Heinz-57 mutations of English in the world today.

Moreover, there most certainly is 'Basic Polish'; it's the language most foreigners speak who learn Polish abroad until they become fluent, don't let's kid ourselves here-:))

Remember, all ye who would belittle the finesse of Anglo-Saxon, that it is the Global/Basic English out there which masquerades as the true and only accepted variety of the mother tongue. I cringe to think of how English is being merrily mutilated with impunity as we speak.

Who gave any Pole the right to claim his or her language as superior any more than the temerity of an Anglo to assert that English is the "best" language. Each language is sacrasanct and ought be treated as such.
nott 3 | 594
15 Nov 2010 #59
It's those very subtleties in our language which you seem to poo-poo that constitute the fibre and texture of what makes English English

Goes for any language. That's why translating poetry is rather difficult.

Moreover, there most certainly is 'Basic Polish'; it's the language most foreigners speak who learn Polish abroad until they become fluent, don't let's kid ourselves here-:))

You can have Basic English, functional, fairly easy to master, and correct. Basic Polish, to be correct, needs full inflection by tense, person, number, gender etc. for the start, so it's hardly 'basic' as in 'easy'.

It's not about which language is superior, although some may be better in some applications, then they are probably worse in others, and it's possibly a matter of opinion anyway.

Where do you find the finesse of Anglo-Saxon, though? It's a dead language.

Tell you what, I'd love to speak excellent true English, but what is that, in fact? Queen's English is not, so maybe Estuary, the middle class cockney? Personally, I tend to adopt the quasi-Irish pronunciation, to make myself understood. Like when saying 'you can't'.
mafketis 34 | 12,194
15 Nov 2010 #60
Ja myslę że jest podstawowy polski język. Można slychać tam gdzie sa obcykrajowcy, prawda często nie ma poprawny ale polacy rozumią. Ja był slychać często kiedy kupię od ludzi wietnamski na przykład kiedy jeszcze był stadion.

Nawet kiedy końcówki poprawne, zdania krótkie. £atwo rozumieć. To nie język jak pan Miodek. Ale można gadać z ludźmi, tak?

translation for the idiot mods who are completely anal about the English only policy even when it's inappropriate:

I think is basic Polish. Can hear there where there is foreigners. True often no correct, but Polish understand. I was hear it often when i buy from Vietnam people, fore example when was still Stadion. Even when the endings are right, the sentences are short. Easy to understand. It's not Miodek language. But you can talk with people, yes?

Should also mention that real foreigner Polish is not as its portrayed in the media with people using infinitives. If there's a basic form it's the third person singular present. ja widzi instead of ja widzieć


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