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just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian


asik 2 | 220
2 Mar 2010  #31
I'm not that old. Plus, it pleases my mother that for the first time I am interested in her old family stories.

Are you on the market?!! What's a shame....

PS:
Tell me where the Ukainians live in the AU???
Just joking...:)
Everyone will get what deserves!! That is why I don't care!
Peace!!
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2010  #32
f stop...you should learn about the Polish history before you post here!!.

Are you on the market?!! What are shame..to...

??
asik 2 | 220
2 Mar 2010  #33
You want to know more about your ancestors...that's why I mentioned...study Polish history!!

[quote=Ksysia]just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian[/qote]
Only peasants didn't know (Ksysia???) that the both parties knew the language of each other...
very well!!
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #34
My noble Polish ancestors (my fathers side) were killed by the UPA banda (Ukrainians). If you see a movie called 'Krzyżacy", that's how Ukrainian nationals treated Polish noble people/ szlachta people! My Polish grand..father was cut into half by them and it happened during a WWII.

I am hoping that Krzyzacy is not the only source of your history education.

Anyways,

I wish you didn't have that glaze of deception over your eyes..

what is so weird about it. Russians admired Stalin at one point too. Bandera stood for everything Ukrainian and for the luck of a better hero he has to do for now:).

Besides, you all can talk about for years. He will always remain a symbol of somebody who wanted Ukraine to be free.

It is easy to criticize another nationality, so we don't have too look at our own mistakes.
asik 2 | 220
2 Mar 2010  #35
I am hoping that Krzyzacy is not the only source of your history education.

If you were intelligent enough, you'd know what I meant by the name "Krzyżacy"
1jola 14 | 1,879
2 Mar 2010  #36
He will always remain a symbol of somebody who wanted Ukraine to be free.

Yes, one of his mottos was: Freedom through genocide of the Polish minority.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #37
If you were intelligent enough, you'd know what I meant by the name "Krzyżacy"

intelligence is about expressing yourself clearly and to the point and you confuse it with sarcasm and contempt for other posters.
Nuf said.

Yes, one of his mottos was: Freedom through genocide of the Polish minority.

Link please.
Genocide? Hmm.......Holodomor was a genocide. I know most of the Polish posters speak with anger and pain because you lost families, land, but that is what happens when somebody tries to show another religion down the throat for extended period of time. Ukraine , or rather Kievan Rus was a center of an Orthodox religion and a very powerful one at that.
asik 2 | 220
2 Mar 2010  #38
Yes, one of his mottos was: Freedom through genocide of the Polish minority.

If you are so excited why don't you open a new topic somewhere about 'Ukraina'!!??

Here, ON THIS SITE!!! we're talking about Poland and Polish history, Polish language, Polish people, Poles in general!!
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #39
If you are so excited why don't you open a new topic somewhere about 'Ukraina'!!??

You have reading comprehension problems. lol

Here, ON THIS SITE!!! we're talking about Poland and Polish history, Polish language, Polish people, Poles in general!!

NO< WE DON"T> READ THE RULES>

;)

PS> I hate newbies.
1jola 14 | 1,879
2 Mar 2010  #40
Link please.

Link to what? UPA/OUN leadership planned, organized, and carried out an extermination of the Polish population in Wołynia.

Here, ON THIS SITE!!! we're talking about Poland and Polish history, Polish language, Polish people, Poles in general!!

You seem flaky so I'll ignore your stupid comment.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #41
Link to what?

you said that one of his mottos was: freedom through genocide. Can you provide a link or you just basing it on a general interpretation of the history?

Bandera hated Poles just like many Ukrainians did and they had reasons. Retaliation is what happened.
Exiled 2 | 425
2 Mar 2010  #42
I heard there will be a Bandera ulice in Krakow is that true?
1jola 14 | 1,879
2 Mar 2010  #43
No. You've heard wrong. Krakow will not have a Himmler street either, if that's what you will hear next.

Bandera hated Poles just like many Ukrainians did and they had reasons. Retaliation is what happened.

You mean in the same way Hitler hated Jews and he had reasons, and retaliation is what happened. Of course, on a different scale, but the same principle applies.
asik 2 | 220
2 Mar 2010  #44
intelligence is about expressing yourself clearly and to the point and you confuse it with sarcasm and contempt for other posters.

Intelligence is about to know...especially when asked !!!!!
You are here because you want to be here & and..

Just for you...I'm explaining, name "Krzyżacy" (The Knights of the Cross) a group of monks who were executing Polish people by cutting them into half or in many other different disturbing ways.
Exiled 2 | 425
2 Mar 2010  #45
These Krzysacy seem very Teutonic to me.
asik 2 | 220
2 Mar 2010  #46
You seem flaky so I'll ignore your stupid comment.

and you seem ugly and stupid...!

PS> I hate newbies.

I am not 'new here!!.. it's just I don't like to waste my time with people kind of like you- aphrodisiac or 1jola
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #47
You mean in the same way Hitler hated Jews and he had reasons, and retaliation is what happened. Of course, on a different scale, but the same principle applies.

NO, I did not mean that. Of course you are free to interpret what I said they way you wish. Far fetched interpretation, but there is nothing I can do:).

I am not 'new here!!.. it's just I don't like to waste my time with people kind of like you- aphrodisiac or 1jola

I am glad we are on the same page:)
asik 2 | 220
2 Mar 2010  #48
asik:
I am not 'new here!!.. it's just I don't like to waste my time with people kind of like you- aphrodisiac or 1jola

I am glad we are on the same page:)

No! I am not on the same page with you, mate!

I am Polish and a very proud Australian citizen not a Jew!
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #49
No! I am not on the same page with you, mate!

what I meant by being on the same page is that I agree with you that we both don't like wasting time on each other, so please keep the promise.
porzeczka - | 102
2 Mar 2010  #50
but that is what happens when somebody tries to show another religion down the throat for extended period of time. Ukraine , or rather Kievan Rus was a center of an Orthodox religion and a very powerful one at that.

I wonder what according to you happened in Volhynia. Your explanation 'from Kievan Rus to WW2 slaughter' is a little too vague. Would you say something similar in court, as an advocate of a Ukrainian who brutally murdered thousands of Poles?

Genocide? Hmm.......Holodomor was a genocide.

Genocide isn't about numbers. You probably read this before:
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

It is easy to criticize another nationality, so we don't have too look at our own mistakes.

Who would dare to criticize those Ukrainian Angels? As long as they don't 'lie', they can sleep in peace.
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2010  #51
so, which one would you pick for vacation: Ukraine or Uruguay? ;)
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #52
I wonder what according to you happened in Volhynia. Your explanation 'from Kievan Rus to WW2 slaughter' is a little too vague. Would you say something similar in court, as an advocate of a Ukrainian who brutally murdered thousands of Poles?

we are not in court.

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

agree, therefore Ukrainians experienced genocide by Poles for centuries.

Who would dare to criticize those Ukrainian Angels?

I have been on this board for a while and Ukrainians have been criticized on an ongoing basis. You don't expect me to take responsibility for the action of somebody else, or do you? I am not comfortable with the collective responsibility. I personally would never kill anybody, but a war and ethnic conflicts is a different story and I am not in a position to judge either side.

As long as they don't 'lie', they can sleep in peace.

Ukrainians got their share from the hands of other nations. What boggles my mind is the fact that many posters here are playing victims.

I said it a long time ago: it is up the both of the governments to clear and apologize, only then both sides will be able to move on.
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2010  #53
they 'got their share' from their own government which starved them.
asik 2 | 220
2 Mar 2010  #54
what I meant by being on the same page is that

It means you are BULLY towards Polish people and Poland.

You- aphrodisiac and 1jola and many, many more here should be exposed as the enemy of Poland and Polish people .

Why don't we do that?? We'll see how many Jews are involved or if any other nationalities are .
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #55
they 'got their share' from their own government which starved them.

NO, it was the Soviet government.

the point I was trying to make was that they starved, not who's fault it was.

I think the the operating body (the Soviet government) was a crucial part of the Holodomor. I also think that there is nothing uplifting about starving people: Ukrainians or not.
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2010  #56
oy, chill, I edited out!
You are way to defensive to assume my mention of Ukrainians starving was meant to be uplifting.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #57
oy, chill, I edited out!

I am chilled out. I am just not sure what you were trying to convey? Puzzled.
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Mar 2010  #58
that's my problem with history. The quest to assign blame, and keep the hate alive.

I'll just re-qoute myself. That said, I have to try much harder not to involve myself in these discussions..
Have a nice day!
porzeczka - | 102
2 Mar 2010  #59
therefore Ukrainians experienced genocide by Poles for centuries

You might as well say that Jews and Poles experienced genocide by Ukrainians for centuries.
In that definition 'destruction' should be understood as physical extermination.

we are not in court.

Ok, but your explanation was vague and misleading nonetheless :) I hoped that you would try one more time.

I have been on this board for a while and Ukrainians have been criticized on an ongoing basis.

Rather Poland: the bad, the worse, and the worst ;) Is the victim status of Ukrainians unchallengeable?

it is up the both of the governments to clear and apologize,

I don't care about their apologies, but they shouldn't complain when Poles criticize UPA.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
2 Mar 2010  #60
You might as well say that Jews and Poles experienced genocide by Ukrainians for centuries.

why? You have said it and I don't see a reason to repeat myself.

I hoped that you would try one more time.

Sure. Orthodox faith is part of the Ukrainian make up and it has a long and strong tradition. I went back all the way to Kievan Rus because this is where that faith originated. Poles were too forceful with their Catholic Religion (just one of the reason for being disliked) on local Ukrainian population. One cannot force another religion. It always results in either covert or overt reaction. During the Lithuanian COmonwealth - the Lituanians let the Ukrainians to practice their won faith and often converted to Orthodox, which was very smart of them. Poles showed Catholic religion and eventually it ended up in the bloodshed.

s the victim status of Ukrainians unchallengeable?

I don't know. It takes time from what I understand.

but they shouldn't complain when Poles criticize UPA.

UPA was good for Ukrainians and bad for Poles. There is nothing else to add in my opinion. We will always disagree on those matters.


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