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Stalin's Holocaust Against Jews And Poles As "Self Defense"


Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Sep 2015 #1
"Polish policy led to the disaster in September 1939, because during the 1930s Poland repeatedly blocked the formation of a coalition against Hitler's Germany," Andreev said in an interview with the private TVN station. "Poland was therefore partly responsible for the disaster which then took place."

As one of Litvak and Poylishe descent, I sat there thinking, "So, the Holocaust in Russia was an act of 'self defense'. Tell me more. Anti Semitism rears its ugly head again."

I am livid that anyone would categorize Stalin's ethnocide against particularly Jews and Poles (whom did have a relatively-good track record compared to other countries) as "self defense".
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
27 Sep 2015 #2
Have you forgotten the Holodomor? It's worth pointing out that Russia thinks completely differently to the rest of Europe when it comes to WW2.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Sep 2015 #3
And that changes that Stalin's main target was Jews (including Jews among Ukrainians) how?

Excessive links = removed links.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
27 Sep 2015 #4
Ukrainians might beg to differ. More to the point, if he hated Jews so much, then they wouldn't have played any role in the Party. Yet...they did.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Sep 2015 #5
****** was a Self-Hating Jew and had kapos. What's your point?
Ironside 50 | 10,989
27 Sep 2015 #6
Don't ask, you have that weird custom of pocking at things with a stick just to see what will happen.
Lyzko 29 | 7,328
27 Sep 2015 #7
For starters,Stalin was a Georgian, not even an ethnic Slav! Second of all, Jews per se, compared with Hitler, were far from his main agenda. He indeed did imprison and murder millions en masse, a number of whom happened to be Jewish, but if even the Jews (and FULL Jews!!) curried favor with Stalin and were willing to forfit their freedom indefinitely, then they could live perfectly comfortable lives under his regime:-)

Any similarity between Stalin and Hitler beggars comparison, if for no other reason than on sheer ideological grounds. Hitler was preeminently a racist who believed in racial superiority through attrition if absolutely necessary, preferrably through annihilation as the most "efficient" means necessary to protecting the Aryan race from racial polution by Jews, Roma, the mentally ill and others.

German-born and bred Jews who knew no other culture/country than Germany and who spoke no other language than High German, had served with distinction in WWI, had even penned patriotic ballades against England (Ernst Lissauer's "Hymn of Hate", for instance) ALL without exception were to be exterminated if proven that each of their grandparents of both parents had been Jews. Although certain "exceptions" were made for third or quarter-Jews second class etc.., Hitler's Einsatzgruppen combed the East for shtettls where the poorest of the poor Jews dwelled.

Stalin was to be sure a power-hungry maniac and a dictator to boot; he cannot be seriously compared with Hitler!!!
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
27 Sep 2015 #8
Who, or what is ******?

You figure it out. I will never uncensor that name.
Lyzko 29 | 7,328
27 Sep 2015 #9
@Delphi,

Stalin is the name. He was Georgian, not Russian (and certainly not Jewish)!! Every time a controversial person comes up, somebody tries to make him out to be Jewish, e.g. Achmoudzinishad! Chances are it's alot of hooey:-)
Ironside 50 | 10,989
27 Sep 2015 #10
Hitler was preeminently a racist

Not really, he was going against Jews basing it on Marx works as Jews are main force behind financial systems and capitalism which leads to enslavement of the Aryan race. It was a flexible system, Japanese become honorary Aryans as well as some Bosniac Muslims.

So he was a kind of cultural/racist or he was a national Marxist coupled racial theories of 19th century, mixed with Nietzsche's idea of will and idea of superhuman.

Even Christianity was viewed as a plot of Jews to soften others and make them as a clay in their hands. So, he was reverting to the ancient times when steel of Aryan spirit was enslaved by some Jews venom i.e. Christianity and a health core of Roman and Germanic gods and pure Aryan values would make them victorious, superior and dominant.

Stalin was a psychopath but he was very intelligent. He wasn't Jewish. Thing is he murdered more people than Hitler, few times over and he was killing without regard to ethnicity with a sole exception of Poles.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
27 Sep 2015 #11
stalin holocaust againt jews?lol more holo religion in offensive
all gulag commanders were jewish...so was his barber and his wife....wasnt he married to Jewish ,kaganovitz dauther?
what a bollocks.read solzenitzyn,see what he sayz about jewish kapos,and gulag system
whocares
28 Sep 2015 #12
And that changes that Stalin's main target was Jews (including Jews among Ukrainians) how?

Stalins main targets were Russians, Ukrainians and Poles (and Germans if you include WWII).
If there was certain Jews who opposed him he might have eliminated them but not for religous or ethnic reasons. He was not anti-Jewish as say Hitler.

More to the point, if he hated Jews so much, then they wouldn't have played any role in the Party. Yet...they did.

Indeed. There was a significant number of Jews in the early-mid Communist times. Stalin had a number of Jews working with him.
OP Nickidewbear 23 | 584
28 Sep 2015 #13
For starters,Stalin was a Georgian, not even an ethnic Slav!

I never said that Stalin was. Categorically, nonetheless, he despised Jews more than Poles. jewishhistory.org/stalin%E2%80%99s-anti-semitism/:

Stalin's attitude seems to have been based in part on what he took to be Hitler's successful use of anti-Semitic demagogy. It was certainly also due to his increasing Russian nationalism, to which he felt, most, or many, Jews were not truly assimilable. And the idea of a special Jewish predilection for capitalism is of course to be found in Marx. He especially opposed Jews who were Bundists, or religious activists, or 'cosmopolitans,' or secessionists, or Zionists, or were agents of American-Israeli organizations.

Lyzko 29 | 7,328
28 Sep 2015 #14
@Ironside, let's first of all be quite clear; Hitler despised Christianity because he felt it "Jewish in spirit", furthermore, that conscience "was a Jewish invention"LOL

No surprise. Christianity derived from Judaism, hence Judeo-Christian tradition, right?
:-)

PS
Stalin believed himself and the rest of Mother Russia to be Christian! Hitler believed himself as well as the Germanic peoples to be essentially pagan in nature and spirit. Christian notions of the Divine etc. were deemed "Ungerman" in character. Man, not G_d became the measure of all things under Naziism and concepts such as "all men are created equal" along with other Enlightenment ideas were blithely, i.e. cynically, tossed out the window!
mafketis 25 | 9,265
28 Sep 2015 #15
Russia thinks completely differently to the rest of Europe when it comes to WW2.

Well the Soviet propaganda never stopped. Generations of Russians have imbibed the idea that defeating Germany in WWII was the single greatest accomplishment of any country in the 20th century and the rest of the world (at least Europe) needs to worship Russia in perpetuity. If anyone doesn't worship Russia it's because they're neo-nazis (or just plain nazis).

And Stalin is being rehabilitated in Putin's Russia (as is the USSR in general - again, most Russians didn't mind anything bad that happened in the USSR* and prefer it to what came afterward).

*Russians are oddly passive about domestic leaders imprisoning and killing other Russians
pinhead
28 Sep 2015 #16
If you listen to any Poles they think they won the War on their own, despite the fact they were taken over in an afternoon.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
28 Sep 2015 #17
Well the Soviet propaganda never stopped. Generations of Russians have imbibed the idea that defeating Germany in WWII was the single greatest accomplishment of any country in the 20th century and the rest of the world (at least Europe) needs to worship Russia in perpetuity. If anyone doesn't worship Russia it's because they're neo-nazis (or just plain nazis).

Even the name - "Great Patriotic War" says it all. In fairness, it was a hell of an accomplishment to them and achieved at incredible cost, but well... as you say, they've been drinking the kool-aid for years.

*Russians are oddly passive about domestic leaders imprisoning and killing other Russians

My wife has the theory that they actually enjoy being stamped on - when you think about the chaos of the Yeltsin era, it's quite understandable that they'd prefer Putinism to the only alternative that they've ever known.
mafketis 25 | 9,265
28 Sep 2015 #18
it was a hell of an accomplishment to them and achieved at incredible cost, but well...

It certainly was. But Soviet behavior before and afterwards cannot help but color how non-Russians perceive them (and Russians cannot or will not accept that).

when you think about the chaos of the Yeltsin era

Cannot vouch for the accuracy of all of it (naturally) but this is really fascinating.... (by the person that predicted the 1998 collapse of the Russian bond market a year in advance)

thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Economics&Finance/+Doc-Economics&Finance-GovernmentInfluence&Meddling/BankstersInRussiaAndGlobalEconomy.htm
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Sep 2015 #19
cannot be seriously compared with Hitler!!!

In anything except body count. He left many more millions people dead -- before, during and after the war -- than Hitler ever did. And he didn't discriminate -- Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Jews, Poles, Crimean Tatars, Volga Germans, whoever who might in any way be suspected of potentially restricting his unquenchable pursuit of power. One could argue of course that Hitler had only a paltry 12 years in which to perform.
mafketis 25 | 9,265
28 Sep 2015 #20
My wife has the theory that they actually enjoy being stamped o

A lot of Russian behavior can be explained by the perennial lack of property rights (in the western sense).

"Money quote in the link above: "The Russians' failure to accept the Roman concept of private property has compelled them to suffer the coercive powers of the state so that at the very least a civil order, if not a civil society, might be established and sustained.

The hackneyed idea that Russians have some special longing for tyranny is a pernicious myth. Rather, they share the common human need for predictable event undergirded by civil and state institutions and their difficult history is the result of their struggle to achieve both in the absence of private property."
Ironside 50 | 10,989
28 Sep 2015 #21
Stalin believed himself and the rest of Mother Russia to be Christian!

I don't think so.

If you listen

When I listen to you I hear a sad little man with anger issues and inferiority complex.
Lyzko 29 | 7,328
28 Sep 2015 #22
Ironside, you don't think so, but don't forget, Russia was and remains overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox. The fact that Marx, Lenin, and others were dyed-in- the- wool atheists doesn't alter the facts a bit:-)

As regards sheer numbers of slaughtered, again, Hitler murdered out of purely ideological-biological reasons. All full Jews had to be systematically eliminated; Stalin murdered only those whom he saw as a threat. the result may have been the same, the modus operandi however, was different.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
28 Sep 2015 #23
One can only smile when read silly leftist linking stalin and bolshevicks crimes with christianity.yea.stalin was christiian cus russia was ortodox country.lol...ever heard what bolshevick been doing with clergy and churches?homo soviectus was far away from christuanity
Ironside 50 | 10,989
28 Sep 2015 #24
but don't forget, Russia was and remains overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox.

I think you are deluding yourself. Russia during Soviet time weren't eater Orthodox or anything in general, revival of Christianity stated after Soviet regime crumbled.

As regards sheer numbers of slaughtered, again, Hitler murdered out of purely ideological-biological reasons. All full Jews had to be systematically eliminated; Stalin murdered only those whom he saw as a threat. the result may have been the same,

Hitler murdered those he saw as a thread as well.
Difference between them is simple Hitler was getting more and more insane and sick, prone to emotional reactions and decisions, probably didn't fully comprehend consequences of his orders.

Whereas Stalin was a cool, very intelligent and composed,but he was a psychopath.
Lyzko 29 | 7,328
28 Sep 2015 #25
Right about first part, Ironside! However, the Russians always had been devout Christians in their hearts and minds. The Communist atheism was merely a smoke screen, paying lip service to those aparatchiki who were indeed non-believers:-)
Ironside 50 | 10,989
28 Sep 2015 #26
Right about first part, Ironside!

Right about both parts.

However, the Russians always had been devout Christians in their hearts and minds.

I'm sure, some were, how many I don't know but definitely a not majority as you are implying not even close to.

he Communist atheism was merely a smoke screen, paying lip service to those aparatchiki who were indeed non-believers:-)

Rosy picture Luzko indeed.
Lyzko 29 | 7,328
28 Sep 2015 #27
Not a rosy picture, Ironside, but the truth! Ask many Russians of nearly any age group, and a majority will tell you they never lost faith with either their Savior, their Pope or their Church, despite Communism:-)
Marsupial - | 886
28 Sep 2015 #28
You all forget hitler was addicted to hard drugs. How many drug addicts running your companies doing great?
Lyzko 29 | 7,328
28 Sep 2015 #29
That's neither here nor there! So most kings and other potentates long before, during and after Hitler were either drunk, druggies or both. What does that prove? That they were substance abusers?? So what else is new?
mafketis 25 | 9,265
29 Sep 2015 #30
Ask many Russians of nearly any age group, and a majority will tell you they never lost faith

Computer says no.....

pewforum.org/2014/02/10/russians-return-to-religion-but-not-to-church/

The skinny: There's been a rise of self-proclaimed believers but less than 20% attend church services at least once a month....

In other words, most Russians claiming to be devout are paying lip service to an organization they don't actually support (in terms of getting their butts into church for services).


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